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  • Originally posted by Everly View Post
    That does seem to be the option that solves the issue. I wonder if local governments will start building roads that are exclusive to GM or Ford vehicles. Then if you really want to take that road to get where you are going, you just had to buy that make of car.
    I see your point, but don't you think it's a little extreme to compare something essential that we pay taxes for to a luxury item like a video game? Also - I'm very curious as to why people assume that each console should inherently get the same releases. Why is this? As a dev, we try to release all of our tables onto each platform when it makes sense to and is financially feasible. I feel like maybe we've spoiled some players by doing this and now they expect it from every company.

    As for Nintendo, why are we all so shocked that there aren't many games for the Wii U right after launch? Looking back at the first year of the 3DS, I feel like we (gamers, not devs) should have known better than to expect Nintendo to deliver much this early on with Wii U. They haven't had a great track record for launch games, if memory serves, their original Japan launch of the NES only had three games. Three. It took a couple more years to come to NA and even then the list wasn't huge. I realize this was the mid 80s, but I think it does say something about how they time releases.


    Originally posted by GaryCXJk View Post
    What I really find odd is that there is a huge anticipation for the American release of Zen Pinball 2, considering pinball games are pretty much niche.

    Also, I do hope American users are more sensible. The amounts of "It's not free, it's a demo" and "I was too lazy to read through the instructions to notice I also need the trials to play the tables" is a little bit too much to my taste.

    Seriously, the first thing I did after purchasing was downloading the trials. You know, because it told me so during purchase. It's right before the "You need Zen Pinball 2 to use this content" screen, and after the "Are you sure you want to purchase these products" page. You even have to press "Accept" before you can see the aforementioned "You need Zen Pinball 2" screen, it's not even fine print.

    Originally posted by Rafie View Post
    Well most of us here are already experience ZP2 players, so we know what to expect. You have to remember that this is the first time Nintendo has ever had ZP2, so a lot of them were confused by the "free" term. Not trying to insult anyone's intelligence, but I would have known that it wasn't "free" per se. Just the format is free. I knew that even before ZP2 dropped for the PS3. Zen didn't say anything about the tables being free. Otherwise it would have said: "Zen Pinball 2 is a free download, plus an added bonus of our Epic Quest table...absolutely free of charge" or something along those lines. Well I digress. No need to go further on about it.
    Yep. People see "free" and ignore everything else and then get mad because they didn't read the directions and aren't used to Nintendo offering a free download w/paid DLC.

    Originally posted by Dinosaur Toy View Post
    A general pinball note here - I recently read that, in the last year orders for physical pinball machines from Stern has gone up by 30%.

    In addition, there's a demand for pinball machines in the UK with a new company starting up there.

    One theory I've seen tossed around is that we're actually due for a pinball revival in general. The majority of the 1990's pinball tables that are still in circulation at commercial venues around the world are now 15-20 years old and simply put, are wearing out. When they get removed or sold off due to lack of functionality, there's nothing to replace them from retail amusement machine vendors.

    Besides that, the resurgence of video game pinball may have created a slow burn. Farsight deserved credit for working to preserve classic machines, but to their credit Zen has sat here for five years now slowly grinding the market, keeping pinball talked about with regular table releases. Maybe it's not surprising awareness is increasing.

    I saw that as well and even posted the article I read in the general forum. Kind of crazy how home video game systems took down arcades, but now video game pinball is pushing the real pinball machine market back up!

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    • Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
      They haven't had a great track record for launch games, if memory serves, their original Japan launch of the NES only had three games. Three. It took a couple more years to come to NA and even then the list wasn't huge. I realize this was the mid 80s, but I think it does say something about how they time releases.
      The N64 was worse. We only got 2 games (Super Mario 64 and Pilot Wings 64) at the NA launch. TWO!!!!!!! Not to mention, it took a solid month before another game released.

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      • Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
        The N64 was worse. We only got 2 games (Super Mario 64 and Pilot Wings 64) at the NA launch. TWO!!!!!!! Not to mention, it took a solid month before another game released.
        Hahaha I totally forgot about that. Seriously, haven't we learned our lesson yet? We just have to be patient

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        • Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
          Hahaha I totally forgot about that. Seriously, haven't we learned our lesson yet? We just have to be patient
          I know I have. That was the last time I bought a Nintendo system. I wasn't pleased with the lack of game selection, the lack of third party support, the $70-$80 price tag per cartridge and the endless delays.

          If I have to give Nintendo any credit. It's at least they stay consistent.

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          • Welcome to Point/Counterpoint, a roundtable discussion in which opposite viewpoints are made and expressed all in a spirit of friendship and openness.

            [Cue inviting music]

            Hello Barbie, it is always nice to see you and I must say the color of that blouse really suits you.

            Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
            I see your point, but don't you think it's a little extreme to compare something essential that we pay taxes for to a luxury item like a video game?
            You are very accurate. That was more of a hyperbole to express how foolish and distasteful I find exclusives to be. Being an English major, I'm sure you recognize that the root word of exclusive is "exclude" So the base of this concept appears to have its origin in keeping something from a group, not providing something to a group. If it were my call, there would be one gaming system and if you wanted to play games, that is the one you got. All developers, publishers, and consumers use it and everyone gets what is offered. Something tells me the only people that would not be on board with that idea are the console manufacturers.
            Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
            Also - I'm very curious as to why people assume that each console should inherently get the same releases. Why is this? As a dev, we try to release all of our tables onto each platform when it makes sense to and is financially feasible. I feel like maybe we've spoiled some players by doing this and now they expect it from every company.
            I can't speak for everyone, but I only assume I will get a release when it is announced that it will be released. To be honest, even then I'm not so sure anymore. There are of course games that I wish were available on a console that I have, but that is life. In the case of Rayman Legends and Zen Pinball, it would not be possible for me to care less that it is on multiple consoles. I'm just disappointed at the delays. I think the situation also has an effect on how it is viewed. If you are in a group of 100 people that want an item and that item is then given to 5 people (which you are not one of) you aren't happy. If you are in that same situation and the item is given to 95 people (which you are not one of) you still aren't happy, but for some reason it stings more.
            Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
            As for Nintendo, why are we all so shocked that there aren't many games for the Wii U right after launch? Looking back at the first year of the 3DS, I feel like we (gamers, not devs) should have known better than to expect Nintendo to deliver much this early on with Wii U. They haven't had a great track record for launch games, if memory serves, their original Japan launch of the NES only had three games. Three. It took a couple more years to come to NA and even then the list wasn't huge. I realize this was the mid 80s, but I think it does say something about how they time releases.
            For me it largely came down to the fact that Nintendo said they learned for those mistakes and vowed not to repeat them. You have a great point in saying that we shouldn't have believed them. But when there is a company that has been part of your life for a long time, you want to believe them, you want them to learn and not make the same mistakes. Perhaps it is foolish reasoning to hope that a company succeeds in this cynical age. Personally, although I have only been associated with Zen Studios for a short time, I really like what it is offering and look forward to playing these games. I was told by Zen that ZP2 would be out in December and I believed them. Then I was told it would be January...and I believed them. Now we are looking at February and perhaps most would echo your words that I "should have known better than to expect Nintendo to deliver" but I still hope.

            Sorry this sort of derailed the thread, but I have no games to play.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Everly View Post
              Well, after all instructions are just the manufacturer's opinion of how it works.
              Is this make up a definition day?
              sigpic

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              • Originally posted by hunter328 View Post
                When you're talking about code working on a weaker processor I'm not sure video transfer to better medium is relevent. What would be though are computer games. Look at how long old games can be played on increasingly better tech and how many really old games are still available to play. Then think back to all the people who had relativley new machines and couldn't run Crysis when it first came out. Or try getting any new pc game to run on five year old hardware.
                I'm not sure if you've played on 3DS, but having one myself I think the slow performance, frame rate, and features that had to be cut on tables testify to it being harder all by itself.
                Hunter, you are correct.

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                • Originally posted by Everly View Post
                  "I can't speak for everyone, but I only assume I will get a release when it is announced that it will be released. "
                  "Sorry this sort of derailed the thread, but I have no games to play."
                  "

                  I didn't check your profile but I'm assuming from this that you're either a youngster or new to gaming. Believe me you'll learn not to get your hopes up around release dates posted in advance. You'll soon come to learn that these being moved is not an odd occurance and that getting worked up whenever one does will leave you with stomach ulcers.
                  You'll also learn that it takes any new console a while to build up a library to a degree that at any given time there will be an unplayed game available for it to match any given gamers tastes. If you were worried about having games to play buying a Wii U this soon after launch was not a wise move. I'd suggest getting a PS3 or an Xbox 360 if you still have the money.
                  I hope that info helps. Believe me, as time goes by this kind of thing will become old hat.
                  Last edited by Llabnip; 02-12-2013, 10:33 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Llabnip View Post
                    "
                    If you were worried about having games to play buying a Wii U this soon after launch was not a wise move.
                    I certainly agree with you there.

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                    • Originally posted by Everly View Post
                      I certainly agree with you there.
                      Very good restraint there teenager!
                      Proud member of the Hyna Gang! Keeping pinball alive on the Wii U!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tech101 View Post
                        Very good restraint there teenager!
                        Thanks buddy. I'm the project manager on a 4 million dollar state construction site and a bad issue came up, so I didn't have time to write anything else. Not bad for a youngster huh? "
                        Last edited by Everly; 02-12-2013, 12:21 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Everly View Post
                          Thanks buddy. I'm the project manager on a 4 million dollar state construction site and a bad issue came up, so I didn't have time to write anything else. Not bad for a youngster huh? "
                          Let's see here. You've heard of Neil Diamond and you played Donkey Kong as a child and that game is OLD. That puts you at least in your 30s. However I think I can safely still call you youngster!
                          Last edited by Tech101; 02-12-2013, 12:40 PM.
                          Proud member of the Hyna Gang! Keeping pinball alive on the Wii U!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tech101 View Post
                            Let's see here. You've heard of Neil Diamond and you played Donkey Kong as a child and that game is OLD. That puts you at least in your 30s. However I think I can safely still call you youngster!
                            Actually I just turned 25 and 174 months, so I'm totally a youngster. I will admit that while I'm not new to gaming I've never had a console around launch. So my expectations of support for it were probably unrealistic. I am starting to understand that when a dev/pub says something will come out at a certain time that it is a foolish move to expect that. I learned my lesson, can I get a balloon?
                            Last edited by Everly; 02-12-2013, 01:37 PM.

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                            • you know what though i have to admint that i forget to wait and yes i forget that the wii u is a news system. i made that verry mistake in not waiting when i got my samsung galaxy player because it was something new and there wasn't no skins and every thing els made for it yet but i did lurn to improvide like for the carying case i have for it i am useing a nintendo 3ds carying case.
                              feel free to add me in the wiiverse its FanOfMK20 and you can allways find me on facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/#!/DerekColeman.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Everly View Post
                                You are very accurate. That was more of a hyperbole to express how foolish and distasteful I find exclusives to be. Being an English major, I'm sure you recognize that the root word of exclusive is "exclude" So the base of this concept appears to have its origin in keeping something from a group, not providing something to a group. If it were my call, there would be one gaming system and if you wanted to play games, that is the one you got. All developers, publishers, and consumers use it and everyone gets what is offered. Something tells me the only people that would not be on board with that idea are the console manufacturers.
                                That situation would be beyond dreadful for customers. A monopoly like this allows the company that owns it to do whatever it wants. If there is only one console manufacturer left at one point, expect their console to block used games, require always-online DRM, make you pay for using their online service, use overpriced storage media and so on. The quality of games would also suffer greatly, because there would be no reason for anyone to invest in exclusives that push the sales of a sepcific console, which would allow third parties (whose games are ultimately measured against the top-tier exclusives on each console) to slack off as well. Things like online multiplayer being free on PSN and PS+ offering you free games or the offer of the week on the Xbox Live Marketplace are only there because Sony and Microsoft have to compete with each other.

                                I live in Germany, where a certain company has a monopoly over the entire railroad network. Trains being 20 minutes to several hours late is the rule, not the exception, and I have to pay the equivalent of $13 to ride to the next town. In Japan, where several private companies own part of the railroads, I have never experienced a train being late and I could travel between Osaka, Kyoto and Kobe for a few hundred Yen.
                                Last edited by Vyse; 02-13-2013, 05:26 PM.

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