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  • #61
    Originally posted by heathenSauce View Post
    He does have a point about the ball, at least in the US version of the williams collection on 360 the ball is 2d and glued to the table. This is most noticeable on No Good Gophers in multiball. If you launch one ball off the midfield ramp, even though it's 'in air' it can still collide with a ball under it.
    I really have no idea what you're talking about. I can put a hurting on No Good Gophers and most of the other tables. The ball/s seem and play fine to me. My friend ihearawitch agrees. And he's one of the best video pinball players in the world. Look him up on the FX2 leaderboards. He is in the top 5/10 on most tables. He is also top in a lot of the FarSight tables. I think since FS's tables are much more real and challenging than Zen's people want to accuse them of all of these different things to make up for not being able to play them good.
    Last edited by lasvegaspinballhalloffame; 11-02-2011, 10:14 PM.
    http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

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    • #62
      Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
      I think since FS's tables are much more real and challenging than Zen's people want to accuse them of all of these different things to make up for not being able to play them good.
      Do you mind not personalising these issues?

      They're just opinions about pinball. It's not religion.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
        I really have no idea what you're talking about. I can put a hurting on No Good Gophers and most of the other tables. The ball/s seem and play fine to me. My friend ihearawitch agrees. And he's one of the best video pinball players in the world. Look him up on the FX2 leaderboards. He is in the top 5/10 on most tables. He is also top in a lot of the FarSight tables. I think since FS's tables are much more real and challenging than Zen's people want to accuse them of all of these different things to make up for not being able to play them good.
        My only point was that the ball is in fact, not a 3d object, and has no z-axis movement in the US version of Williams collection. Personally I really enjoy the Williams collection, and am looking forward to the new release. This doesn't change the fact that their physics aren't perfect. FX2 isn't perfect either, but they are both still good products.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
          Complete bull crap. Have you even played the Williams disc all the way through? And they can't design a ball? hahaha, ridiculous. Well me and the good folks at Zen will be playing all of the tables FarSight release.
          Ok I only saw the videos and wasn't convinced at all, but I don't want to hurt your feelings I admit I was talking about something I know nothing about, forgive me, peace.

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          • #65
            I can't say much for game play on the FS side, but I can say Zen's visuals are much MUCH better.

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            • #66
              balls

              Really . . . if Zen and FarSight did the same table, which one would you prefer to play?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by peglegp View Post
                Really . . . if Zen and FarSight did the same table, which one would you prefer to play?
                Would have to see and play them side by side.
                And no offense taken Vincent. I just don't get all of this physics jargon and what not about FS's tables, since they play perfectly fine to me. ihearawitch calls it all BS too. He says if you consider yoourself a good PB player you should be able to bust scores out on both company's tables with out a problem. Zen said the same thing on Facebook. They don't get all of the FS hate, and that they will certainly be playing FS's tables too.
                http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
                  He says if you consider yoourself a good PB player you should be able to bust scores out on both company's tables with out a problem.
                  Why do you keep harping on about scores?

                  It's not about the PHOF leaderboards. It's about playability and enjoyment.

                  In your words, the tables are ...

                  .. picture perfect in EVERY way and detail.
                  That's quite a claim. But if you believe it, that's up to you. You're entitled to your opinion.

                  And MY opinion is that FarSight's physics are not authentic; they detract from the experience.

                  It's silly to diss other people's abilities (without even knowing their scores, no less) just because you disagree with their views.

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                  • #69
                    Calm down big guy. I played WHOF before Zen, and I thoroughly enjoyed it and got addicted to pinball because of FarSight. I simply think most people here are just jumping on the let's hate on any other company's tables bandwagon. Proof of this, Vincent has never even played the WHOF disc. He is just making comments based off of what he sees on youtube. I mean, if you can't get ANY kind of enjoyment out of ANY of FS's tables, then you are most likely not a true pinball fan and just wanna be a pathetic Zen fanboy.
                    And since I can play most of the real tables IN PERSON on the WHOF disc and upcoming DLC and you can't, I think I'd listen to me and not you.
                    http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
                      Would have to see and play them side by side.
                      And no offense taken Vincent. I just don't get all of this physics jargon and what not about FS's tables, since they play perfectly fine to me. ihearawitch calls it all BS too. He says if you consider yoourself a good PB player you should be able to bust scores out on both company's tables with out a problem. Zen said the same thing on Facebook. They don't get all of the FS hate, and that they will certainly be playing FS's tables too.
                      In my opinion, that I have formed reading many reviews and other opinions and after playing Williams Pinball Classics myself, Williams Pinball Classics is not worth playing for me and especially not to put in the time to bust out scores. As such I will not recommend it to anybody else without explaining my reservations about the product:

                      - The ball feels like it is floating and not rolling.
                      - The ball looks like a grey sticker moving over the screen rather than a metallic pinball rolling.
                      - The angle that the ball comes off your flippers doesn't feel right... as such aiming feels completely off.
                      - Where others can see past that, I do not have fun because I don't have the nostalgic connection to the tables and as such the reasons above, annoying sounds, minimalistic table layouts for some e.g. Gorgar and features such as a lack of kickbacks are frustrating the heck out of me.

                      I have only played Williams Pinball Classics for around 10 hours in total (compared to 400+ hours for FX 2) and only had some fun on Whirlwind. There are some good things to say from me about the tutorials, the game mode where you play all the tables in one challenge and the "achievement" structure but not about the game-play itself.

                      So... I don't have much hope that the new product, based on my experience with their past products and based on their ultra short introductory video, will be to my satisfaction... but I will read reviews and listen to the opinion of guys like you, heathensauce, blue and others that have enjoyed the first games before writing it off.
                      Last edited by Cloda; 11-03-2011, 08:24 AM. Reason: small edits
                      XBox One Gamertag - PinStratsDan

                      Pinball FX3 Tips & Strategy Guide YouTube Channel - PinStratsDan

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                      Cloda's somewhat vain and sort of self-indulgent thread

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
                        I mean, if you can't get ANY kind of enjoyment out of ANY of FS's tables, then you are most likely not a true pinball fan and just wanna be a pathetic Zen fanboy.
                        Clumsy strawman building.

                        And since I can play most of the real tables IN PERSON on the WHOF disc and upcoming DLC and you can't, I think I'd listen to me and not you.
                        If you can't handle other people's opinions without resorting to personal attacks, save everyone the angst, head over to rec.games.pinball.



                        Originally posted by Cloda View Post
                        - Where others can see past that, I do not have fun because I don't have the nostalgic connection to the tables
                        I find having the nostalgia worsens the experience. I play Gorgar (which is a brutal, brutal table) on PHOF and it's not remotely like the real thing. I sank too much of my money in to that machine as a young man, and I know how it feels. PHOF doesn't capture it, mostly because of the physics (but also because of the non-emulated audio, or lack thereof).

                        You can capture some of the difference here:

                        Pinball hall of fame williams collection - Gorgar. This table is brutal.


                        vs



                        and

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhRFMpm2rLM (careful! wonkycam in use!)

                        (Keep in mind that Gorgar is one of the better implementations in the set. Funhouse and Medieval Madness are rather more irksome. I think MM is borderline broken.)

                        Of course, you can never really go back. There's severe limits to the simulation, and no video pinball will ever capture that feel of a real machine. But when core elements (physics, audio) are lacking, it doesn't help. It just makes me yearn for my youth a bit more.

                        The problem isn't restricted to pinball. Many years ago I scored an Asteroids upright. Spent a long time carefully restoring it to her original beauty, played her a lot. (Sadly had to sell her.) Then I saw the XBLA "Game Arcade" version. What a total, utter, unmitigated POS. Looks and plays like MAME on the most basic settings. Some things just shouldn't be emulated/simulated.
                        Last edited by Womble; 11-03-2011, 06:01 AM.

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                        • #72
                          Sorry but I wan't trying to attack you or anyone else. I thought that this was just a little bit of a heated conversation. I will let you know how well FS did with Theatre Of Magic, Black Hole, and Ripley's when they are released.
                          http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
                            Sorry but I wan't trying to attack you or anyone else. I thought that this was just a little bit of a heated conversation. I will let you know how well FS did with Theatre Of Magic, Black Hole, and Ripley's when they are released.
                            I also thought it was a bit of a heated discussion and that is why I gave my perspective Looking forward to the feedback... Theatre of Magic and Ripley's look like awesome tables.
                            XBox One Gamertag - PinStratsDan

                            Pinball FX3 Tips & Strategy Guide YouTube Channel - PinStratsDan

                            Discord server - PinStratsDan

                            Twitter - PinStratsDan

                            Facebook - PinStratsDan

                            Cloda's somewhat vain and sort of self-indulgent thread

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                            • #74
                              I'm with cloda on this one. i simply don't enjoy playing the Williams collection and i do have nostalgia for some of the real tables in the collection. i will give the new farsight tables a chance but i am not getting my hopes up, also not getting my hopes up that they will start releasing them in early 2012 though you would think as DLC they should avoid some of the delays with the CD version of Williams.

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                              • #75
                                The Williams collection was a nice release, and I played it more than PFX1 before 2 came out. I used it to try and learn tables for when I go out and play the tables for real. After FX2 came out though, I've mainly stuck with that and only pull out HOF every once in awhile. I am looking forward to the new game by Farsight, and hope they have better leaderboards and fix floaty balls. Those were my main issues with it.

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