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  • Flawed achievement structure

    Thanks for bringing the game to the One - it is great and I'm sure you could have got a modest reward for allowing the porting of tables from the 360.

    The achievement system - how could it have ended up like it is. 1000 points for a single table and then 10 points for others is broken. You have thrown away the opportunity to use your core points wisely, such as being superscore based, and instead created a completely unbalanced system where you are encouraging playing a single table over all others. Achievements are supposed to be a reward for gaming endeavour and you are so far wide of the mark it is untrue.

    I suggest you immediately introduce 3 achievements per DLC table to at least restore some balance, with a range of skills required to unlock. Against MS policy, let us know and we will let MS know exactly how we feel.
    Last edited by mdwhitby; 08-16-2014, 11:36 AM.

  • #2
    Microsoft's guidelines for publishing through the indie system enforces a 1000 gamerscore quota on initial release with all Achievements self-contained and unlockable without DLC. Zen probably had to include at least one table to make FX2 a "full" game and then give it 1000 gamerscore. Hence the unbalanced nature of a game that's essentially a selling platform for DLC packs rather than a traditional full game.
    Makes Zen look a bit kooky but it's Microsoft's policy at the end of the day.

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    • #3
      Only a complete idiot would stick to one table just for the Gamerscore, when pinball is all about chasing the high score.

      If you're playing Pinball FX2 just for the Gamersxore, then you're playing it wrong.

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      • #4
        The policy wasn't put in place to cater for platforms such as Pinball FX, more for individual games. Even if the position was immovable there could have been better design.
        I'm far from an idiot but if you don't think 10 points only per table might, if nothing else, influence some buying decisions then I believe you don't know some parts of the Xbox audience, perhaps not on this site admittedly.
        No matter, I will as I have always done continue to support Zen

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        • #5
          Yeah, I gotta say, I think some better core achievements would have been things like, "Earn 10 Extra Balls," "Get your first Skillshot," "Play a single instance of any Multiball Mode for 2 minutes," "Reach a Wizard Score of 1000 points," or "Activate the Wizard mode on any table" and pad out about 950G of the core set with similarly non-table-specific achievements, then include one or two for the remaining 50G specific to Sorcerer's Lair since it's included with the game.

          Maybe someone from Zen can shed some light on this, but I'm assuming the decision to give all DLC tables 1 achievement for 10G each is something they did in light of Xbox's achievements policies. After all, they did reach some kind of cap on Xbox 360 and had to stop including achievements with new tables. Whether those same rules affect Xbox One titles is something I wouldn't know.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TV_Junkie View Post
            Yeah, I gotta say, I think some better core achievements would have been things like, "Earn 10 Extra Balls," "Get your first Skillshot," "Play a single instance of any Multiball Mode for 2 minutes," "Reach a Wizard Score of 1000 points," or "Activate the Wizard mode on any table" and pad out about 950G of the core set with similarly non-table-specific achievements, then include one or two for the remaining 50G specific to Sorcerer's Lair since it's included with the game.

            Maybe someone from Zen can shed some light on this, but I'm assuming the decision to give all DLC tables 1 achievement for 10G each is something they did in light of Xbox's achievements policies. After all, they did reach some kind of cap on Xbox 360 and had to stop including achievements with new tables. Whether those same rules affect Xbox One titles is something I wouldn't know.
            I totally agree. Most of the 1000G should have been non-table specific. They should not explicitly require DLC (them's the rules) but if DLC makes them easier, so be it. All of your specific ideas are good. But it's too late now.

            On the matter of the so-called "10G" achievements though - I fell like I'm screaming into the abyss here - I, and everyone else I have checked out, have gotten 0G for each of these achievements. In the Xbox One's achievement app, it is blank where the score should be for these achievements. There is no score to get, and no-one I know has got any proof otherwise. Yet everyone continues to say "10G achievements". I'm sick with confusion. Can someone please tell me what the deal is with this.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ozzpot View Post
              On the matter of the so-called "10G" achievements though - I fell like I'm screaming into the abyss here - I, and everyone else I have checked out, have gotten 0G for each of these achievements. In the Xbox One's achievement app, it is blank where the score should be for these achievements. There is no score to get, and no-one I know has got any proof otherwise. Yet everyone continues to say "10G achievements". I'm sick with confusion. Can someone please tell me what the deal is with this.
              Same here. I'm hoping this is an issue that is resolved soon. It has me a bit concerned, and as a result, I've only been playing Sorcerer's Lair to avoid inadvertently unlocking any of the "?G" achievements.

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              • #8
                Achievements and Effort

                I would've liked to see more core achievements around general things...

                Maybe base some on multi-player, then the rest of the 1,000 on Sorcer's Lair. They could've also given achievements for superscore and pinball wizard scores.

                For DLC, I am fine with the 10GS but what they can probably do is have 4 achievements. 3 at 0 GS and then 1 saying got getting all three table achievements at 10GS.

                I have to say that I really love Pinball FX2 and I have bought every table on 360 to date... But, I find this port to be a half hearted effort. The achievements don't seem to be well thought out (Could've put the question on best way to do achievements within MS guidelines to the community during development), Although it is 1080p and 60 fps, I feel that the graphical fidelity was probably still based on last gen assets, and I would've though they'd do 3D support as PS3 had this feature and X1 is more than capable of making that happen, I would assume...

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                • #9
                  I don't get what people are saying about MS guidelines...Yeah, there needs to be 1K GS for the core game, but there is no cap on GS or achievements...they announced that last year.

                  They said the only cap they have introduced is a monthly one so there isn't too much GS added at once. Unless something has changed internally about this I guess Zen just misunderstood the guidelines for the achievements list to be so...strange.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ChunkehMunkeh View Post
                    I don't get what people are saying about MS guidelines...Yeah, there needs to be 1K GS for the core game, but there is no cap on GS or achievements...they announced that last year.

                    They said the only cap they have introduced is a monthly one so there isn't too much GS added at once. Unless something has changed internally about this I guess Zen just misunderstood the guidelines for the achievements list to be so...strange.
                    Someone told me that [email protected] (i.e self-published) games have a different set of guidelines regarding gamerscore to those that you mention. I assumed that to be true, although I have to say, I can't find any official evidence of this.

                    We all know what they announced last year. They famously announced a lot of policies last year, and very few of them are true now. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not willing to agree until I know for sure what the deal is.
                    Last edited by Ozzpot; 08-18-2014, 12:40 AM.

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                    • #11
                      challenges

                      hopefully at the very least they'll be able to add challenges if not extra achievements for all the other tables in the future.

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