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  • #31
    I had an apple yesterday and it was sweet. This apple tastes sour. I bought them both from the same market and they're both green so they should be the same. Therefore the farmers who made the apple I had today must have been lazy when they injected the sugar or whatever it is they do to make apples sweet. I don't know because I don't make apples. But I'll bet you it's because they were being intentionally lazy to save money on sugar. What's a Granny Smith?

    No one would make assumptions like this because apples are simple. They make sense. A marketplace infrastructure capable of interacting with multiple platforms in dozens of countries using dozens of currencies, selling items with descriptions that have likely been vetted by a number of lawyers to make sure neither MS nor the publisher get into any sticky legal situations in any of those countries is not simple. Nobody should get a free pass just because it's hard or complicated, but don't make assumptions based on the fact that a superficially similar problem was fixed quickly or it just plain looks easy.

    It's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed and even a little upset that Zen hasn't been able to fully deliver on a statement that they made in the 6 weeks since release. But some of you are either unaware of or downright ignoring things that might help funnel your frustration in the right direction:

    - There are currently 36 tables available as free HD upgrades for most people. You might be one of the unlucky ones that can only play 32. You were promised 43 free things. You likely have 32-36 right now, with apologies and assurances that you'd get the rest later.

    - If you go to Microsoft's site and look up your purchase history, you can't see anything bought with points more than 12 months ago. Do you think that's something they did arbitrarily or could there be incompatibilities between the many different versions of the marketplace infrastructure over the last decade?

    - Microsoft has had pricing problems like the one with Titanfall since the beginning of the season pass era. Many, many times users have been asked to purchase dlc included in a season pass after buying the pass. It's been years and they still don't have a consistent process to handle what is now a commonplace situation.

    - Despite how it may look to the average pinball fan, the specifics of the type of cross-buy Zen is trying to achieve with MS is almost unprecedented on the Xbox platform. The closest analogy is probably Minecraft , but that was released on 360 about 2 years ago by a company now owned by MS(to the tune of $2.5 billion, btw). Pinball FX2 is twice that old. Notice how, with the exception of TWD, all the tables that are causing problems are the earliest releases that are also available on the Xbox One? I can't easily explain why something like that might matter. I can only say that after 18 years of software development and database design I know how to make apples. Ultimately I don't really know any better than you do how MS makes theirs. I'm just asking that you keep an open mind before jumping to conclusions.


    If you really feel the need to take Zen to task over their mistakes, how about major leaderboard issues? Or flippers that sporadically get stuck in the up position? Heck, maybe even an achievement in Sorcerer's Lair so hard it's only been unlocked by one person in 13,000 because of a mission so close to impossible it could be considered broken? Please stop trying to get Zen to fix the one problem that's almost entirely out of their control.

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    • #32
      It fills me with great hope when I see someone else who gets it. That feeling probably won't last past the next post.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
        Hey at least once you finally get to play these tables, it'll be like they are brand new again. Silver lining! haha
        I'll just tweet this out there then, shall I? The official response from Zen regarding the import situation. After all, It's all such a laugh.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Beanz View Post
          I'll just tweet this out there then, shall I? The official response from Zen regarding the import situation. After all, It's all such a laugh.
          Just trying to lighten the situation. Besides, I already tweeted this out, so feel free to retweet it as much as you'd like. Don't forget, this isn't some secret forum that no one can see, these are our official, public forums

          We are still working on this issue, and we are not the only ones affected. Keep in mind that we are working to make sure that you don't have to pay for something. Sit tight, we will get this straightened out.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
            Sit tight, we will get this straightened out.
            We've been sitting tight for 7 weeks now! It's ridiculous. Other games with similar problems were fixed virtually overnight. I've lost all faith in Zen. Just deleted my game and definitely won't be downloading again, fixed table transfers or not. It's a shame really, I loved this game on 360 but I will not support some lazy ass developer who obviously doesn't give a poo.
            Last edited by BarbieBobomb; 10-01-2014, 09:32 PM. Reason: language!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by TV_Junkie View Post
              It fills me with great hope when I see someone else who gets it. That feeling probably won't last past the next post.
              I get it! I get it all too well, since a few of my old friends are now game developers. I hear it first hand how hard it is for an indie company to negotiate with a first party company and to get issues resolved in a timely manner.

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              • #37
                Duh....

                Originally posted by HeavyMetal84 View Post
                We've been sitting tight for 7 weeks now! It's ridiculous. Other games with similar problems were fixed virtually overnight. I've lost all faith in Zen. Just deleted my game and definitely won't be downloading again, fixed table transfers or not. It's a shame really, I loved this game on 360 but I will not support some lazy ass developer who obviously doesn't give a poo.
                "Lazy ass"? Some of the ignorance in this forum is amazing... and there is no excuse for it.... it isn't rocket science.

                The 'Lazy ass' developer isn't charging you to use their game..... they aren't charging you to use all the tables you bought before for the 360... so how are they making money? From the goodwill that they hope will persuade you to buy new tables on the new platform you have decided to support.

                So.... it isn't exactly a surprise that this might just not take precedence over every other project they have on the go... you know.. new releases that folks pay for so that maybe studio employees can feed themselves and their families? I am fed up with all the bleating...

                Yes we would all like the fixes quicker but some of you people need to get a grip.

                These are regular people running a regular business juggling their resources as best they can to satisfy customers and stay in business and hopefully grow. Trust them to sort it out and produce (as they have been doing) a steady stream of new table for you to enjoy.

                If you want to flame me I couldn't care less....

                xbone dude.
                Last edited by BarbieBobomb; 10-01-2014, 09:32 PM.

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                • #38
                  This situation is bad

                  This really is a bad situation. From a PR standpoint, it really is a disservice to the customers at this point.

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                  • #39
                    So a company that takes over a month to fix a problem just announced a new south park table?? Seriously zen focus on getting the transfers fixed because apparently you can't focus on one thing at a time.

                    Yeah this is going to be really sad and pathetic at this rate how long they are working on this. I'd start taking bets but thats just sad.

                    Lazy ass? Most people bought the xbox one version based on their promise that they would make cross transfer to next gen possible. WTF is entitled in that? Stop acting like they are doing us some favor. Like we should be bowing down all grateful and stuff? Most people spoke out against having to buy again the same tables (or were you absent went it blew up on twitter and on gaming sites?) Most people were unhappy with that and expressed their displeasure at that. Zen basically back off and relented and said Okay Okay but give us time to fix it. They said they need a month; fans said fine. 2 weeks later they said it was ready when it wasn't completely fixed. Now another month later its still not fixed????

                    If a company promises to do something for its customers it should do everything possible to expedite it. Its over a month+. No signs of any fix YET they are ready to release another table no doubt. Not so much as a warning disclaimer that tWD DOES NOT IMPORT to next gen currently. Nothing. Just taking their time and making us wonder if it really was an empty promise now that the fury as died down

                    Like if you hired someone and they only did a job 80% of the way saw that you weren't noticing and took their time finishing it. Zen didnt finish on what they promised

                    Hence we the customers have all the right in the world to be outraged at this huge delay. Over a month and growing? Anyone else would have gotten blasted for this.

                    Get the feeling I'm the only one calling them out on this even though i'm far from the only one annoyed at this situation. But i fully expect the defenders to come out to their aid.

                    so yeah xbone they are responsible to fulfill what they said they would. People like myself bought the next gen version under the guise that Zen would make the tables be imported. Compare the sales numbers of people who bought the next gen version and you will see alot of them did so based on what zen said they would do; which is ability to import previous tables. To do so otherwise is deceptive and manipulative.

                    Over a months delay and not so much as a prominent marketplace disclaimer saying that the x1 version may not import all previous tables or that TWD does not. Yeah sorry but nobody can claim they are doing everything possible to fix that or hurry up the patch.

                    Since there technically is no importing being done (there are separate versions right?) Why not offer those who bought TWD table a code voucher if they bought the 360 one? ask ms to send them out.
                    Last edited by peterkoz; 10-02-2014, 02:49 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Be sure to take a look at my recent post on the import issue here. Thanks!

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                      • #41
                        Now that Barbie has kindly moved this out of the FAQ I can respond without rudely ignoring her requests to keep 'discussions' like this from hindering her ability to do her part in helping to fix the very thing you are upset about.

                        Originally posted by peterkoz View Post
                        So a company that takes over a month to fix a problem just announced a new south park table?? Seriously zen focus on getting the transfers fixed because apparently you can't focus on one thing at a time.
                        When you have some time, take a look at this. If you don't want to use a link from some random person on the internet, just google "xbox launch parity".

                        Aside from the obvious, which is that a table designer and an xbox-marketplace-fixer are not the same person, that's the most likely answer as to why it's being released instead of held back until the table transfer issues are resolved. And frankly, as long as any new tables work I'd prefer to have them sooner rather than later.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Beanz View Post
                          I don't see why an indie company should get a free pass on criticism when they're being crap. Selling video games is a business, not a charity or cute little social club. FX2 on the XO is rubbish and the tactics being used to sell it are looking more and more shady as time goes on. If Zen don't have the resources or commitment to produce a decent product then they should get out of the industry right now. It's only downhill from here no matter how many apologists wish otherwise.
                          Yuuup Zen aint no charity or social club yet your are crying like a spoiled child because you cant get FREE export on a fraction of the currently available tables, tables which will also be free anyway. They dont HAVE to make them free, as in the dont HAVE to chase a fix for this issue because they are a business and spending resources so they can give stuff away for free aint the most solid way of making money but they are despite your crying attention seeking post deemed by me as such because it aint constructive.

                          If your questioning that Zen deliver a "decent" product then thats your opinion but your full of it because you care enough for it to be at least "decent" to you because you not only have these tables but want them on your Xbox One version too.

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                          • #43
                            Yeah update with news several months later when most have either decided to go ahead and buy the x1 equivalent believing that it would transfer if the 360 one was bought

                            This is ridiculous it takes so long to deliver on what they said they would? anyone wanna take bets on just how long they stretch this out? But yeah zen please take your time another few months Titanfall less than a day. Zen as long as they feel like taking their time; and if people buy the 360 version expecting the next gen transfer we still benefit.

                            so yeah guys please defend zen as doing us a favor and accuse me and others of being entitled. Fact remains that the majority spoke out against buying the same tables yet again. Zen promised we'd have it and basically half-assed it until the fury died down. Facts are facts and Zen DID NOT deliver on what they said they'd do. Its like 2 months+ and still not fixed. Why people feel inclined to defend this unacceptable delay is beyond comprehension. Are these the same people that would actually accept this in any other scenario?

                            All we get are vague promises of updates when news become available. Nothing concrete being done to fix this asap.

                            Fact remains that i'm sure there's a HUGE amount of buyers who bought the TWD table on 360 under the guise that it would be transferred. No where on the marketplace does it warn otherwise. Yes the words potential lawsuit do come to mind. A FAQ buried deep within a website or forum does not absolve you of responsibility to your customers. You led customers to believe that next gen importing would be implemented. People continued to buy 360 tables expecting to be able to transfer them. Alot of people bought the next gen version of Pinball fx expecting to do so.
                            Last edited by peterkoz; 10-07-2014, 06:07 PM.

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                            • #44
                              @peterkoz, Good luck with that lawsuit. You do know they are a Hungarian company, right? I only bring that up because suing foreign companies can be a challenge. Just out curiosity, on what legal grounds will you be filing your lawsuit?

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                              • #45
                                The company promised we'd have next gen transfer of tables. They didn't fully deliver on what they said they would do. After the backlash they said they'd do so. Afterwards all the media was yes they would do so. They said they needed a month. They only partially delivered on said promise. Its been over 2 months and the job wasn't finished.

                                No where on the marketplace is their a disclaimer of any sort. Burying a disclaimer in a faq on website or forum does not mean they are adequately informing customers. Hence its deceptive. If a product is being sold and the warning it hidden somewhere in the back of the store. Guess what you can argue in court that the company is being shady and deceptive and preying on customers not being informed.

                                Most customers were ready to write off zen for next gen (contrary to the boot lickers who say they'd buy the tables again) the huge backlash said otherwise. Alot of customers bought the x1 version believing their tables would import not all not some but all. Those like myself who knew it would be delayed did not expect it to take this long to deal with seriously 2+ months???

                                The lack of a marketplace disclaimer also i'm sure also would make for a strong case in court.

                                Will anyone take them to court in hungry? Sadly no thats probably not likely. Is there an argument for a class lawsuit? yeah you can bet your ass a lawyer would see that evidence here for such a case

                                so yeah stop pretending they aren't liable for not delivering. Leading customers to believe they can next gen import so they would buy the next gen version? yeah i'd say that's a case there for deceptive advertising not including a disclaimer helps support that case. Alot of users after they announced it ended up getting the next gen version you could argue based on that promise. If a large enough proportion of customers felt based on that promise enough to buy the next gen version and continue buying 360 tables? yes must definitely. Ask any lawyer if there is grounds here.
                                Last edited by peterkoz; 10-07-2014, 07:14 PM.

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