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  • No more (Marvel) Superhero tables. Please.

    I do like the direction the newer tables are going. The cinematic intros set the mood pretty well. Table design is excellent. Visual and sound fx are a treat. In short: I like the ‚how‘, but I got tired of the ‚what‘, the content.

    For me it’s clear why you keep constantly (re-)using the Superhero theme:
    - Heroes, Villains and their overall background story are instantly recognizable by the target audience. There is no need for establishment of new Characters and a storyline.
    - Large superhero fan base = if they like the superhero they are more likely to buy superhero table.

    By no means I hate the Marvel universe represented in zen tables. Iron Man's adult jokes are cool („its a bit early, but cheers!“), Moon Knight is imo the best looking and designed table, Thors nordic archaic theme reminds me of good old fantasy rpgs.

    But then I saw the trailer for the Avengers Pack:
    - Geez, another Marvel pack. Really?
    - Many character models of older Marvel tables are reused (e.g. Thor and Iron Man in the Hulk table).
    - I’ll buy it anyway despite the fact that I am bored with the superhero theme - after all it’s zen, the tables will be excellently designed.

    I think it’s enough. No more Superhero tables. It’s getting old. I don’t mean to sound too harsh or anything, just expressing my honest opinion. I hope you can understand that. There are other IPs out there fans begging to be implemented in a zen table. There are plenty of theme suggestions in this forum. Castlevania hint hint.

    In an old posting I asked for less whacky, childish tables. What came out as zen’s fresh original table? Epic Quest, a whacky, childish table (I am criticizing the theme and art style here, not the complex table design and leveling system, these are just fine). I bought it anyway because I buy any table (3 bucks per table is robbery - we the customers rob zen...). Granted, you can’t go full horror splatter style, you have to be under PG-13. But is it much to ask for less tele tubby art style? Blade is a very good example. I very much like the dark atmosphere of this table. You yourself proved that it is possible to provide adult oriented themes without violating the PG-13 criteria.

    For the love of Batman, no more superheroes and lala themed tables.

  • #2
    I agree with you about the superhero tables.

    I watched some clips of the new tables for the first time this weekend and I must admit my heart sank.
    Models jumping around the tables, bombastic voice clips, – just like nearly every other Marvel table that exists.
    These tables look so identikit now I find it really hard to gather much enthusiasm for them.

    My own personal opinion on this (based on pure guesswork) is that Zen have some kind of construction kit that enables them to produce this type of table cheaply and quickly now. Hence the short amount of time since the last Marvel Pack.

    Enthusiasm on this forum is always high for any new tables but if you look beyond the hardcore Im not sure there is much appetite for this.
    I also post on Eurogamer which used to have a very active FX2 thread but the V&V pack passed by with barely a whimper and Im not really sensing much excitement for this next pack either.

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    • #3
      You forgot one thing, and that's that Zen may be under a contract from Marvel? Besides, they've already said there are MANY tables in the works that aren't Marvel, such as a table based on a popular Popcap game. Just be patient, I'm sure there is some great stuff coming soon, especially since Zen Pinball 2 is releasing in May.

      As for me, I'm not QUITE burnt out from the superhero stuff, I really enjoy them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by snakeman07 View Post
        You forgot one thing, and that's that Zen may be under a contract from Marvel? Besides, they've already said there are MANY tables in the works that aren't Marvel, such as a table based on a popular Popcap game. Just be patient, I'm sure there is some great stuff coming soon, especially since Zen Pinball 2 is releasing in May.

        As for me, I'm not QUITE burnt out from the superhero stuff, I really enjoy them.
        Think they said something like 12 Non-Marvel Tables in the works.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Alipan View Post

          My own personal opinion on this (based on pure guesswork) is that Zen have some kind of construction kit that enables them to produce this type of table cheaply and quickly now. Hence the short amount of time since the last Marvel Pack.
          This is actually not the case, the team still does each table by scratch, there is no "template" or "mold" they use to make tables. Each one takes about six months to design and create. This next pack, although Marvel themed, is quite different from our other tables not only in the way we use the theme (story-based rather than character based) but the mechanics as well.

          Right now we have roughly a dozen tables in the works, none of them being Marvel or superhero themed. We have a couple of hugely iconic licenses we're working with, and a deal with Popcap that we'll be announcing/releasing in the next couple of months. I know people are feeling the "Marvel burnout" but don't worry, we have lots more non-Marvel (and even some non-pinball games!) coming this year.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by snakeman07 View Post
            You forgot one thing, and that's that Zen may be under a contract from Marvel?
            *Ding* *Ding* *Ding*

            "WE HAVE A WINNER!!!" - Cyclone

            It's no secret that Zen has a contract with Marvel. However, we don't know the conditions of the contract. It's safe to assume though that Zen has to release a specific number of tables in a certain amount of time.

            There a few things we do know thanks to these forums.

            1.) Zen has stated that the Marvel tables sell much more than their originals.

            2.) Also, the Avengers pack is the last major push for Marvel. After this we will see far less Marvel releases.

            It's safe to assume that one reason why Zen is financially stable is because of the Marvel tables. From the way it sounds, you guys want Zen to die. You don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. That's business 101 for you.
            Last edited by shogun00; 04-30-2012, 03:54 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
              . We have a couple of hugely iconic licenses we're working with, and a deal with Popcap that we'll be announcing/releasing in the next couple of months.
              I'm intrigued. Next couple of months. Will be an interesting summer. I like the sun but when it's 115+ here in AZ I don't want to be outside. Diablo 3 Zen tables, The pinball arcade tables. yep time to stay in the comfy air-conditioned home.

              AS far as getting tired of marvel tables? I still play Thor, Moon Knight, Captain America, Fantastic Four constantly along with Epic quest, Sorcerer's Lair, MARS (which I think has the closest physics to a real table) and The Pinball Arcade consistently. I'm so looking forward to the Avenger's Chronicles pack. I'll be in pinball heaven come summer time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tenorhero View Post
                I'm intrigued. Next couple of months. Will be an interesting summer. I like the sun but when it's 115+ here in AZ I don't want to be outside. Diablo 3 Zen tables, The pinball arcade tables. yep time to stay in the comfy air-conditioned home.

                AS far as getting tired of marvel tables? I still play Thor, Moon Knight, Captain America, Fantastic Four constantly along with Epic quest, Sorcerer's Lair, MARS (which I think has the closest physics to a real table) and The Pinball Arcade consistently. I'm so looking forward to the Avenger's Chronicles pack. I'll be in pinball heaven come summer time.
                That's great to hear! Except the 115 degree weather... yikes!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shogun00 View Post

                  It's safe to assume that one reason why Zen is financially stable is because of the Marvel tables. From the way it sounds, you guys want Zen to die. You don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. That's business 101 for you.
                  I don't think they necessarily want us to "die," they obviously like some of what we do. If not, why would they take the time to post here on the forums? It just seems that some people are tired of seeing similar themes come up again and again, which we totally understand. Everyone just needs to understand that Marvel isn't the only thing we're putting our time into, we have a lot coming up, we just need everyone to be patient.

                  On that note... You guys are going to FREAK OUT when you finally see what we've been up to

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
                    On that note... You guys are going to FREAK OUT when you finally see what we've been up to

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Marvel tables pay the bills, allowing more creative themes to be explored..
                      Maybe a wood rail or Wedgehead retro design but with hidden pop-up/morphing modern features!
                      PS3 ZEN player...all games
                      PS3 tag Pinball_M33 Your PS3 invitation is welcome
                      Current favorite table is: Epic Quest
                      Pinball/ Pachinko/ Pashislo ...silver ball life!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don’t think anyone wants Zen to die – that’s a bit extreme.

                        Last time I checked I had put 150 hours into FX2 so its safe to say I am a fan of the game!

                        It just that as a customer I naturally want tables that appeal to me and Zen to stop work on all tables that aren't tailored to my specific personal requirements. Is that too much to ask?

                        Seriously though If the Marvel tables enable Zen to produce deep, complicated, originally themed tables then I could live with that but lets be honest there is no sign of them so far.

                        The only truly original non-marvel tables for a while have been Ms Splosion Man and Epic Quest – both enjoyable but I don’t think many people would call them classics.

                        Usually I will buy tables on day 1 but Ill wait this time before taking the plunge. I keep reading on this forum people who are happy to buy any tables because they are cheap as though that is a justification for any flaws they may have.

                        Personally I think Zen should be aiming higher than that. Im still confident that FX3 will be amazing Im just not enjoying the overload of Marvel tables at the moment (and also the more casual direction the game has taken over the last year but thats a moan for another day..)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
                          I don't think they necessarily want us to "die," they obviously like some of what we do. If not, why would they take the time to post here on the forums? It just seems that some people are tired of seeing similar themes come up again and again, which we totally understand. Everyone just needs to understand that Marvel isn't the only thing we're putting our time into, we have a lot coming up, we just need everyone to be patient.
                          I thought I pointed out fairly well that I like ALL of the tables Zen has released so far. All Marvel tables INCLUDED. The table designs and art style are superb. That's why I bought all tables available. I am a fan of Iron Man, Spider Man and the other Super Heroes. The only problem I see is that imo the market for superhero tables on the Pinball FX2 platform is saturated. There are too many of them. If they sell well, great I have no problem with that. All I am saying is: Let us try other genres.

                          I love chocolate pudding, but not all the time. I would like to taste vanilla, strawberry, mango and other flavours. Monoculture is always a bad thing. I would like some variety.

                          @shogun
                          What is that talk of dying, how you got the impression that I would want that? No one said that, no one wants that. We love what Zen does (btw, the argument is flawed: Oh CoD sells well, let's release the 1324 iteration of the same game - rip originality)

                          Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
                          On that note... You guys are going to FREAK OUT when you finally see what we've been up to
                          Sweet! Good news!
                          You probably won't be allowed to talk about it this soon but could you at least give us some hint witch genres are covered?

                          Scifi, Horror, Carnival, Mystery, Grand Prix Racing?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alipan View Post

                            It just that as a customer I naturally want tables that appeal to me and Zen to stop work on all tables that aren't tailored to my specific personal requirements. Is that too much to ask?


                            Originally posted by Alipan View Post
                            Seriously though If the Marvel tables enable Zen to produce deep, complicated, originally themed tables then I could live with that but lets be honest there is no sign of them so far.
                            No sign of them? How many times does Zen have to say it? They are working on many tables other than Marvel that will hopefully come out this year. What more do you want to hear?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE[/IMG]
                              No sign of them? How many times does Zen have to say it? They are working on many tables other than Marvel that will hopefully come out this year. What more do you want to hear?[/QUOTE]

                              Well its just that (good marketing men that they are) the mods on this forum tend to overcrank the hype machine from time to time. Ill wait for more firm details before I get excited.

                              Better to under promise and over deliver imo. At this moment in time Id happlily settle for a good quality 4 pack of original tables and a bugs fix. See I dont ask for much!

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