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  • Complain about Plants VS Zombies being much too easy

    Now I really don't get the point, and I'm angry.

    My father and I like playing hot-seat multiplayer together, but now with this table, the same thing happened to us as with Ms. Splosion man : I start playing my first ball, then I play for an hour and there is just no way I can lose the ball, and when I do, I have plenty of Extra Balls following, and it goes on and on forever, then I say to my father : "ok, please play my 4th extra ball because we are both bored like hell" and then after he played a long time and got a 5th extra ball, we both decide to TURN THE XBOX OFF.

    So, how much time does it take to lose your first ball ?? I really wonder, because I couldn't go as far as trying such an extreme experiment.. anybody has a clue ? Even if we have a lot of spare time, is that how we want to spend it ? (-no, sorry, waste it...?) But really, is that what a game should be, seriously ? Zen, if you have decided to give up aiming at adults and to start making tables for 5-year-olds, just tell us !


    Quotes :


    "Not a bad table but not much playability. My first game I managed to get 5 extra balls (on the first ball) and finish the wizard mode (beat the Zombot) and got to the bonus scoring multi-ball without really trying. The game took me an hour and a half and I basically got bored with it. I'll probably play it only a couple more times to try and get a billion and that will be it. There is not even one difficult mission including the Wizard mode. So... if you are a big fan of Ms. Splosion Man marathon session games this table is for you. Just too easy. Come on Zen... please ramp up the difficulty a bit. I for one don't want marathon sessions, I'll rather play lots of shorter games where I can repeatedly try to improve. The real tables from Pinball Arcade is mostly playing like that... if only they had your physics engine and graphics it would have been perfect." (Cloda)


    "I understand that sometimes you have to lower the difficulty, specially for licenses, to find new players, etc. But you shouldn't make too easy tables just for this reason : I became addicted by performing hard challenges, with FX2. Otherwise, you'll find new players who have purchased a table, will play once... and return to other occupations. Sorry but if I'd discovered FX2 with Plants, I wouldn't have bought the other tables, and missed everything ! In my opinion, Marvel quality tables increases, and decreases for Pinball FX2. Zen is more inspired with Marvel tables ? (Fear itself, Infinity Gauntle, Avengers... tables really different !) " (Wims)


    "I played 1 game that took over an hour and I beat the wizard mode. I didn't even really learn the basics of the table that well. I just kept the ball in play and shot the flashing lanes, etc. I got 5 extra balls and I don't even know how I got a single one of them. I'm sure I'll play it a few more times but I don't really have much left to accomplish and I never even read the rule sheet yet." (PSKay)

    "My wife just played and got 5 extra balls." (Lasvegaspinballhalloffame)

    "I love it but I don't like the fact that the games are taking so long to actually finish. I feel the balls/peas are to easy to keep in play. There are some times I have multiball that last for almost 10 minutes. [...] This table is too easy and I'm starting to get a bit bored with doing the same Multiball over and over as the ramp is way to easy to hit. I do understand that they want to bring in more pinball players to enjoy Zen pinball and PVZ i one of trendy games that people can identify with. I just wish it was a bit more challenging and not one of those marathon tables. " (Tenorhero)
    Last edited by Vincent; 11-12-2012, 03:31 PM.

  • #2
    Lol good post.

    I agree with what you say - far too easy. I was bored with it after 20 minutes or so.

    Its pinball Jim but not as we know it.

    Comment


    • #3
      A new patch was released on the PS3/Vita versions of the table and it's much more harder now. It's not easy to get an extra ball (kickbacks, ball save) or the Mailbox multiball anymore.

      I'm not sure if there will be a patch for the 360 version, but Zen has acknowledged that the table is way too easy to grind.
      Last edited by shogun00; 11-13-2012, 05:27 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
        A new patch was released on the PS3/Vita versions of the table and it's much more harder now. It's not easy to get an extra ball or the Mailbox multiball anymore.

        I'm not sure if there will be a patch for the 360 version, but Zen has acknowledged that the table is way too easy to grind.

        Interesting – I know it’s easier (read cheaper) to do a patch on the PS3.

        Off the top of my head xbox owners are waiting for fixes to Paranormal, the Avengers black widow ramp and now it seems PvZ.

        I would honestly prefer it if Zen released the Xbox version a month after PS3 if it meant that the tables came out OK.

        If its that difficult to patch the xbox just get it right first time – the problems seem the same on the PS3 version so why not
        see what occurs with that version before releasing it on the xbox.

        Btw did Zen reset the leaderboards for PvZ on PS3 as well – Im guessing probably not?

        Comment


        • #5
          I must admit, I've grown bored of FX2 because of the way the DLC tables have been getting easier and easier. I feel like I'm being treated like one of "God's little special children". It's almost like my hand is being held all the way, with few risky shots, shots you don't even need to take most of the time. I understand that I've become somewhat competent at the game, but I've had long periods where I don't play the game and I come back when a DLC table comes out and I feel like I've gotten rusty, yet I'm able to maintain my ball for longer. I know this has been said before, and I hope this is taken on board for FX3 but can we have a "Pro" mode where the flippers are further apart, extra balls are fewer in number and much more risky to earn and wider outlanes? Put the challenge back in the game.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Alipan View Post
            Btw did Zen reset the leaderboards for PvZ on PS3 as well – Im guessing probably not?
            No they didn't, but then again I don't think it's necessary. The skilled players will be able to beat the high scores, since it is slightly easier to get to wizard mode now. After all, you don't have to deal with the Mailbox Multiple so often anymore.
            Last edited by shogun00; 11-13-2012, 05:27 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Alipan View Post
              Interesting – I know it’s easier (read cheaper) to do a patch on the PS3.

              Off the top of my head xbox owners are waiting for fixes to Paranormal, the Avengers black widow ramp and now it seems PvZ.

              I would honestly prefer it if Zen released the Xbox version a month after PS3 if it meant that the tables came out OK.

              If its that difficult to patch the xbox just get it right first time – the problems seem the same on the PS3 version so why not
              see what occurs with that version before releasing it on the xbox.

              Btw did Zen reset the leaderboards for PvZ on PS3 as well – Im guessing probably not?
              Oh man--if we waited a month to release on Xbox not only would we lose a lot of sales, we'd likely lose customers. We get enough people mad about exclusives/timed exclusives, and even though we are working toward making as many tables available on as many platforms as possible, people still get mad. I know you would be okay with waiting, but that can't be said for everyone.

              We did not reset leaderboards for PvZ... we'd have an angry mob on our hands

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
                A new patch was released on the PS3/Vita versions of the table and it's much more harder now. It's not easy to get an extra ball (kickbacks, ball save) or the Mailbox multiball anymore.

                I'm not sure if there will be a patch for the 360 version, but Zen has acknowledged that the table is way too easy to grind.

                This is really good news, thank you for telling us, I couldn't know since I don't own a PS3. I wish all poorly balanced tables (in both ways, see Buccaneer) would receive the same treatment, and on both consoles.

                That being said, if on the one hand I'm really happy and satisfied by the fact that Zen apparently acknowledged the problem, I still can't understand at all how they can first release a table and, only after, realize how boringly easy it is.

                I admit I never created any video game in my life, but still, I would think that before releasing a product, you first make sure that everything is ok -- I don't mean perfect, of course, but the problem we are talking about here is not minor, it's a huge one, it's one that questions the very fun and purpose of the whole table, and it's, I dare say, very obvious and quite easy to spot, since you only have to play the game for a few minutes in order to see it. So that's very annoying and not quite forgivable.

                As we said many times (and I say "we" because I'm not the only one saying that...), we wouldn't mind if the rhythm at which tables are released were a little slower-paced, but please, what we like is an interesting, well thought out, well finished, well polished, and most of all, well balanced table. We want high-quality tables, in every aspect : no endless ball savers or extra balls, and -we saw this so many times in the past few years- no more horrible bugs that spoil your game when you're achieving a 5 billion score. And I'm a long-time fan.
                Last edited by Vincent; 11-13-2012, 07:44 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vincent View Post
                  I admit I never created any video game in my life, but still, I would think that before releasing a product, you first make sure that everything is ok -- I don't mean perfect, of course, but the problem we are talking about here is not minor, it's a huge one, it's one that questions the very fun and purpose of the whole table, and it's, I dare say, very obvious and quite easy to spot, since you only have to play the game for a few minutes in order to understand it. So that's very annoying and not quite forgivable.

                  So, like we said many times (and I say "we" because I'm not the only one saying that...), we wouldn't mind if the rhythm at which tables are released were a little slower-paced, but please, what we like is an interesting, well thought out, well finished, well polished, and most of all, well balanced table. And I'm a long-time fan.
                  It could be pretty easy to answer. Perhaps the people at Zen aren't really good at these games.

                  Just look at how the infamous Konami Code was created and it starts to make sense. The Konami Code was created because a programmer (Kazuhisa Hashimoto) sucked at playing the game (Gradius) he coded. He created that cheat so he can test the later levels of the game properly. Back then, it was quite common for the programmer to test their own work. Many indie game companies do the same thing and Zen Studios is probably no exception.

                  Perhaps the testers at Zen suck at these tables and play the game at easier settings (through the operator's menu) to make sure that the table is working properly.

                  Perhaps only the pros are going to realize how dull the table is because it's so easy and that might be the reason why they didn't realize it.
                  Last edited by shogun00; 11-13-2012, 08:41 PM. Reason: Reworded post to not sound "insulting". I never intended it to be so to begin with.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shogun00 View Post

                    Only the pros are going to realize how dull the table is because it's so easy and that's probably the reason why they didn't realize it.

                    It's an interesting point but still hard to believe. I'm not a pro at all, and my dad almost never plays video games and is not particularly good. We are average players.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
                      It's pretty easy to answer. Perhaps the people at Zen aren't really good at these games.

                      Just look at how the infamous Konami Code was created and it starts to make sense. The Konami Code was created because a programmer (Kazuhisa Hashimoto) sucked at playing the game (Gradius) he coded. He created that cheat so he can test the later levels of the game properly. Back then, it was quite common for the programmer to test their own work. Many indie game companies do the same thing and Zen Studios is no exception.

                      I wouldn't be too surprised if the testers at Zen suck at these tables and play the game at easier settings (through the operator's menu) to make sure that the table is working properly.

                      Only the pros are going to realize how dull the table is because it's so easy and that's probably the reason why they didn't realize it.
                      That's incredibly insulting. Don't you think that maybe we made the game "easy" so it would be fun for more than just the top players? People freaked out after Iron Man, we learned our lesson there. I know that some of you are amazing pinball players, and that's great. But the majority of people who bought the game are not. They are casual players who saw a new table based on a casual game they played (which is also incredibly easy) so they picked it up. I know the producer at PopCap and the designer here at Zen are both very proud of it (despite a few bugs that came up after launch) and are both incredibly passionate about pinball.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
                        That's incredibly insulting. Don't you think that maybe we made the game "easy" so it would be fun for more than just the top players? People freaked out after Iron Man, we learned our lesson there. I know that some of you are amazing pinball players, and that's great. But the majority of people who bought the game are not. They are casual players who saw a new table based on a casual game they played (which is also incredibly easy) so they picked it up. I know the producer at PopCap and the designer here at Zen are both very proud of it (despite a few bugs that came up after launch) and are both incredibly passionate about pinball.
                        I didn't mean to sound insulting Barbie. I was just coming up with a possibility. That's all!

                        I have even made a few posts in the past of the possibility, that you guys are making the tables easier for the casual players. This time I wrote the possibility that the testers/programmers may just not be good at playing the game.

                        Ugh! It can be hard sometime to portray my thoughts with just words alone. Please don't take my posts too seriously. They are just filled with possibilities, thoughts and opinions. I try to keep them insulting free as possible.

                        **Editing here I go**
                        Last edited by shogun00; 11-13-2012, 09:02 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Good thread - feel like some of the mists surrounding the zen mindset are clearing. Seems like, as I suspected, they made a conscious decision to go casual. Not the game I fell in love with but there you go...bad luck for me.

                          Nothing wrong with easy tables but unfortunately that tends to go hand in hand with long games and thats when people get bored.

                          This thread needs the opinion of some new / beginner players and what they think of the PvZ table.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alipan View Post
                            Good thread - feel like some of the mists surrounding the zen mindset are clearing. Seems like, as I suspected, they made a conscious decision to go casual. Not the game I fell in love with but there you go...bad luck for me.

                            Nothing wrong with easy tables but unfortunately that tends to go hand in hand with long games and thats when people get bored.

                            This thread needs the opinion of some new / beginner players and what they think of the PvZ table.
                            When we had the table set up at PAX, we had a lot of people play it who weren't too familiar with Pinball FX2/Zen Pinball but they picked it up and seemed to really like it. Even elsewhere (Facebook/Twitter) it seems like the more experienced players don't care for it much but the newer, less experienced ones like it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Plants versus Zombies is a super easy table.
                              If that made me angry, then I wouldn't be bragging about it.

                              That said, I am really interested in opinions about what makes a table hard and enjoyable, compared to hard and sucky, compared to easy and enjoyable, compared to easy and sucky. I have personally experienced all 4 of these combinations.
                              I want to like playing Plants versus Zombies, but I get bored. Same happens to me with Mars, Space Shuttle, and Monster Bash. I think it might be the lack of a dangerous shot. I don't know. On all four of those tables, I have to decide when to stop playing. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, I just play them much less frequently. Different strokes yo.

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