Star Wars Pinball: Heroes Within

[tenorhero]

Why would you go through the effort to complete the missions and the wizard mode if you can just activate that multi-ball at will? I really don't get why Zen keeps on doing this... create excellent tables and then spoil it through a high-scoring mode that has nothing to do with completing the main goals of the tables. I would so love to have the opportunity to readjust the scoring balance for many of the tables to bring all the modes into balance... high scores should be a reward for playing brilliantly and not just for spamming certain modes.

That is exactly what I anticipated in my post a couple of days ago. https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthr...ll=1#post51597

It was my main concern. My 1.28+b score was mostly the Yavin MB but that's not all it was. I happen to beat all the modes. Some of the mission/scenes gave you 10 - 25m. Much like Civil War the table was ideal and challenging to a point then you exploit a certain shot/mode and the table doesn't appeal to a person anymore. I enjoy both CW and Episode IV the table are great fun. The downside to Episode IV though is that you can just basically Grind Yavin MB and it's rather simple to do. Get the ball into the bumpers and get 50 hits. If it were the requirements to start ramp up by 10 or more everytime it might hinder it. Maybe a little. The MAX Jackpots are 5m but if you do this multiple times and are generally decent in handling the MBs, Your scores will soar.

In retrospect though many real tables have something like this. You will find a mode that scores points. You will pursue this and try to get the highest score possible. It's bound to happen. It's just the ease of doing it that makes the table(s) less appealing.

[Cloda]

That is exactly what I anticipated in my post a couple of days ago. https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthr...ll=1#post51597

It was my main concern. My 1.28+b score was mostly the Yavin MB but that's not all it was. I happen to beat all the modes. Some of the mission/scenes gave you 10 - 25m. Much like Civil War the table was ideal and challenging to a point then you exploit a certain shot/mode and the table doesn't appeal to a person anymore. I enjoy both CW and Episode IV the table are great fun. The downside to Episode IV though is that you can just basically Grind Yavin MB and it's rather simple to do. Get the ball into the bumpers and get 50 hits. If it were the requirements to start ramp up by 10 or more everytime it might hinder it. Maybe a little. The MAX Jackpots are 5m but if you do this multiple times and are generally decent in handling the MBs, Your scores will soar.

In retrospect though many real tables have something like this. You will find a mode that scores points. You will pursue this and try to get the highest score possible. It's bound to happen. It's just the ease of doing it that makes the table(s) less appealing.

Jip, you sure did call it. I'm playing on Xbox, and there we don't even have an incentive any more to go for wizard mode as there are no more achievements. The only measurable goals you have, is high score, and that doesn't mean anything if you have a high-scoring spammable mode that dominates scoring. I'll still play this table until I complete wizard mode, which will hopefully be soon with the progress I'm making and then I'll score the easy billion using the Yavin MB... then I will also be done with the table. I still remember my wizard mode and then Billion score chases for tables such as Pasha, Blade, Mars and Fantastic 4 where I had to (and wanted to) come back to these tables over many months before I finally managed to reach those goals. The big difference with those tables is that they all have more balanced scoring and playing through wizard mode is definitely worthwhile for you reaching a high score. I hope that at least one of the other three tables in the current pack will have me coming back for months to come... we shall see.

As OriginalEther said and Alipan also alluded too, if only these tables are tested prior to release from the specific perspective of ensuring balance in scoring and game-play many more stand-out tables, as the ones mentioned above, would emerge. Don't get me wrong, Zen has seriously impressed me with the quality of the tables released these days, you very seldom get game-breaking bugs any more and they keep on innovating in terms of game-play dynamics. I wouldn't be making the effort of voicing my opinion so vociferously if I wasn't still fully invested in playing their tables. For all I know though, these spammable modes are being planned intentionally as it will keep certain players (presumably then, the bulk of the players) coming back for more. Ah well, I'll make peace now with regards to this matter and I have said more than enough on this. I will now get back to playing Pinball rather than talk about it (an idiosyncrasy my wife so loves to point out )

[LeanderL]

I really have problems with A New Hope. I never get many millions but during Yavin multiball. All of a sudden the millions drop.

I never play without a strategy. I just keep shooting ramps and aiming for lit targets. I asked Blinky how he was able to post his highscore on Return of the Jedi...and after using his method I was able to triple my previous best...however, going for the bumpers for minutes just to raise the bonus multiplier is boring...so I only used this method once...I rather start missions and play for fun than use a strategy that would triple my score but takes too long and is boring.

[LeanderL]

PS I don't think that you'd change tables but in addition to my post that Yavin multiball is too powerful: all players even share the bumpers in hot seat mode...so the one who starts Yavin multiball mostly wins.

[Roddy100]

I like the Yavin multiball - it's one of the only ways an average player like myself can have a fighting chance at a high score. I can see that it would be very easy for expert players to exploit, though. Perhaps Zen include modes like this to allow players of all skill ranges to get enjoyment from their tables.

And forget what I said earlier about toning down the sligshots on this table - after spending more time with it, I've grown to really like them. I wouldn't want them this powerful on every table, though.

[Crazy Bonus]

I'll say! Between the frequent updates from Zen and Farsight (Pinball Arcade), I've been playing quite a few fantastic tables. Now if only Farsight will hurry it up and release out Black Knight 2000, High Speed and Who Dunnit on the PS3. I would be really happy. I don't mind playing them on my tablet, but I really like to play pinball with buttons.

Just use a blue tooth controller that is what I do, or an ever cheaper option is an OTG cable with a PS3 controller or other USB controller. It's weird because even after buying my controller I still like to use touch screen sometimes, it all depends where I'm using my tablet.

[Crazy Bonus]

On a side note Barbie is there ever going to be multiplayer on Steam ?

[Crazy Bonus]

"I really don't get why Zen keeps on doing this... create excellent tables and then spoil it through a high-scoring mode that has nothing to do with completing the main goals of the tables."

The question to ask is, who tests the tables prior to release, and how good of a player are they?

In theory, the more difficult and/or unsafe the mode, the higher mode, the more points it should be. But the difficulty of a mode obviously varies based off the skill level of the player. Some modes may only be spammable to the elite players.

I think of Empire, where people have said go for Balance jackpots from Jedi/sith multiball. And for those players that can reach jackpots above 20 million, yeah, it breaks the table. But not everybody can do that; I think the best I've done is 6 million. I just have to grind the Yoda rewards and main missions.

I imagine the testers didn't envision Spider Man being as broken as it is.

That said, finding balance in game can't be an easy task.

The same can be said for real tables too, there are many ways to exploit these as well. That is the same reason why some of them are not used in pro tournaments like PAPA. I know where you are going with this though and as for Spiderman they did address the wizard mode by adding a timer so that one was worked on, a good friend of mine hated it like that on PS3 while we were playing multiplayer games and I liked it.

[snakeman07]

Cracked a billion on Han Solo last night (1.2b). Spent three hours getting that score. I can't imagine doing it again, and I don't know how Fracas has 7b lol unless he saves the game. Pissed because I was off by literally only 1 million from breaking Tbruno's score, but I'm more happy that I got a billion. The multiballs are ridiculous. The one that's really good is the Death Star one, where you lock the balls on it, then shoot the center sinkhole (garbage chute), then for super jackpot you hit the raised bumper on the left. I got my last 100m+ on that one. I still can't do the crane thing up on the top left for anything, which means I didn't get the multiball from that started, and I haven't beat the Battle of Yavin yet, it's annoying to get the ball up to the upper left flipper to hit the Death Star targets. I think those were the only two I didn't complete, and the General Solo one or whatever it's called, which I assume is the last thing after beating all other missions. Man, the center shoot ramp I can't get a good hold on yet, but I managed when I needed to. Magna saves are stupid good

[surf1der]

Cracked a billion on Han Solo last night (1.2b). Spent three hours getting that score. I can't imagine doing it again, and I don't know how Fracas has 7b lol unless he saves the game. Pissed because I was off by literally only 1 million from breaking Tbruno's score, but I'm more happy that I got a billion. The multiballs are ridiculous. The one that's really good is the Death Star one, where you lock the balls on it, then shoot the center sinkhole (garbage chute), then for super jackpot you hit the raised bumper on the left. I got my last 100m+ on that one. I still can't do the crane thing up on the top left for anything, which means I didn't get the multiball from that started, and I haven't beat the Battle of Yavin yet, it's annoying to get the ball up to the upper left flipper to hit the Death Star targets. I think those were the only two I didn't complete, and the General Solo one or whatever it's called, which I assume is the last thing after beating all other missions. Man, the center shoot ramp I can't get a good hold on yet, but I managed when I needed to. Magna saves are stupid good

The big points come from the wizard mode. I think the max scores from all the modes you completed x the number balls in play (it is a multiball)= the wizard jackpot. The wizard jackpot is initially lit at the Probe ramp. I scored 270 million with one shot. After collecting the wizard jackpot, all the loops and ramps light for regular jackpots (around 3 million per jackpot). Collect all the regular jackpots to relight the wizard jackpot. I am sure this is how Fracas got huge score. Unfortunately, I've only been to the wizard mode once because the table constantly crashes on me (steam version).

Also in the crane mode, you only have to lock 3 balls in any of the compartments to start the Kessel Run multiball. You don't need to lock it into the correct "secret" compartment though the jackpots are worth more if you do. Battle of Yavin is a bit of a pain. You only have to hit one of the flashing Death Star targets during the first 4 hurry-ups. If you do that, the bank of targets will drop exposing the bowl of the Death Star. That last hurry-up into the Death Star you have to make to complete the mode. It's a pain because if you miss that last hurry-up shot you fail the mission and you have to relock 3 balls into the Death Star which is probably the most time consuming thing in the entire game.

[snakeman07]

The big points come from the wizard mode. I think the max scores from all the modes you completed x the number balls in play (it is a multiball)= the wizard jackpot. The wizard jackpot is initially lit at the Probe ramp. I scored 270 million with one shot. After collecting the wizard jackpot, all the loops and ramps light for regular jackpots (around 3 million per jackpot). Collect all the regular jackpots to relight the wizard jackpot. I am sure this is how Fracas got huge score. Unfortunately, I've only been to the wizard mode once because the table constantly crashes on me (steam version).

Also in the crane mode, you only have to lock 3 balls in any of the compartments to start the Kessel Run multiball. You don't need to lock it into the correct "secret" compartment though the jackpots are worth more if you do. Battle of Yavin is a bit of a pain. You only have to hit one of the flashing Death Star targets during the first 4 hurry-ups. If you do that, the bank of targets will drop exposing the bowl of the Death Star. That last hurry-up into the Death Star you have to make to complete the mode. It's a pain because if you miss that last hurry-up shot you fail the mission and you have to relock 3 balls into the Death Star which is probably the most time consuming thing in the entire game.

Aw man, I actually locked 2 balls on that game for the Kessel Run then, wasn't sure if those counted towards that. I'm tempted to go for the wizard mode now I actually got close to beating the Battle of Yavin one time, had the Death Star exposed but right when I went for the second shot, it ended

[DarkKodiaK]

That last hurry-up into the Death Star you have to make to complete the mode. It's a pain because if you miss that last hurry-up shot you fail the mission and you have to relock 3 balls into the Death Star which is probably the most time consuming thing in the entire game.

yep, this is what i was hung up twice trying to get the wizard mode on han solo. That damn death star hurry up.

Also hitting that spinner to get the last couple targets in the shooting gallery take quite a while too. At least finishing off greedo isn't too difficult.

[Ramikadyc]

That last hurry-up into the Death Star you have to make to complete the mode. It's a pain because if you miss that last hurry-up shot you fail the mission and you have to relock 3 balls into the Death Star which is probably the most time consuming thing in the entire game.

I don't know, I feel like that one is pretty quick to start if you focus solely on it. The thing that takes longest for me to start and finish from the beginning is either the Han Shot First mode or the Fastest Hunk of Junk mode, or maybe the Escape from Jaba multiball (which is the only mode I haven't completed, but also haven't focused on). If you miss the final Greedo shot, you gotta move all the targets back into place and knock them all back down, which can take forever with the spinner. And to lock each of the three balls in the maintenance hatch to start that multiball, you have to hit three shots into the Falcon and either win the target bank to indefinitely open the habitrail or, if you fail and hit at least one target, get the ball up the left ramp within 5-15 seconds before you miss your chance, then repeat that twice, and then hit the 12 parsecs mark during the multiball—or screw up, and have to start from the beginning.

Starting and completing the Free the Princess mode is relatively easy in comparison, since hitting the front sinkhole is super simple and easily repeated, which then drops the ball right in front the upper-left flipper to hit the Death Star targets.

[wims]

Why would you go through the effort to complete the missions and the wizard mode if you can just activate that multi-ball at will? I really don't get why Zen keeps on doing this... create excellent tables and then spoil it through a high-scoring mode that has nothing to do with completing the main goals of the tables. I would so love to have the opportunity to readjust the scoring balance for many of the tables to bring all the modes into balance... high scores should be a reward for playing brilliantly and not just for spamming certain modes.

Hi everybody,

Totally agree with Cloda.

I just played 3 times on A new hope table and still in Steam top 10, just playing Yavin multiball. Evident.

Sometimes I really don't understand your scoring politics. Timing missions are really short, difficult, and pay not a lot. Just activate multiballs and it runs for highscores, that makes no sense.

So finally you created many original things with missions and you force players to play all the other basical things. Please please !! Be carefull next time about spam technics and scoring systems that ruin all your creativity.

Thanks a lot for all you've done, but I'm sure it would be better without this stupid no-senses!

[skyway73]

Hi everybody,

Totally agree with Cloda.

I just played 3 times on A new hope table and still in Steam top 10, just playing Yavin multiball. Evident.

Sometimes I really don't understand your scoring politics. Timing missions are really short, difficult, and pay not a lot. Just activate multiballs and it runs for highscores, that makes no sense.

So finally you created many original things with missions and you force players to play all the other basical things. Please please !! Be carefull next time about spam technics and scoring systems that ruin all your creativity.

Thanks a lot for all you've done, but I'm sure it would be better without this stupid no-senses!

At the risk of repeating myself I too agree with this. In a way that is why I look at trophies first as they are often a better guide as to a players skill rather than just score. I know this isn't always the case.

That said, at least the missions do have decent scores attached on this table but given the difficulty they could still be higher (or Yavin MB lower?..)