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  • Originally posted by Rafie View Post
    I hear what you're saying and I agree. However, its also a fantasy pinball simulation as well. Just look at tables like Epic Quest and Infinity Gauntlet. That defies the laws of physics through morphs and such as you put it, doesn't it? So you can say that Zen is both that of AR and fantasy. I'm leaning more towards fantasy though.
    I would agree there; perhaps my primary perspective involves presentation. Even if Zen's tables do involve a lot of fantasy elements (depending), they present them as happening in a real pinball machine, etc. A lot of full fantasy pinball dispenses with that (which is fine). The Avengers movie table is quite amusing in that regard, as it places the 'real' table inside a helicarrier, rather than say, merely having the pinball-like elements happening on the deck of the carrier without any thematic explanation.

    Another example of a classic pure fantasy table would be Devil's Crush / Crash from the 16-bit era - a table that not only was full of roving characters and monsters, but was far too tall to be a real pinball cabinet. It was like 3 pinball tables in length.

    I dubbed the Zen style AR since they always stick to maintaining a reference to real table construction and certain limitations (like cabinet size, not counting sub-table screens).

    I don't think there's any hard and fast definitions. Just a general framework to conceptualize all this within.

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    • Originally posted by chiralfox View Post
      I would like to point out that jackpot progressions are not a concept introduced by video pinball. The only real pin that have such a concept that I can think of off of the top of my head is Taxi, though I know there are others. A plethora of lousy players can lead to an immense one-time jackpot. There is another pin (the name escapes me) where one could steal (!) another player's progression effort.

      So certainly, I would argue, meta-game progression has its place in pinball, physical or digital. In my opinion, Epic Quest is actually one of the better digital tables because it reaches beyond the constraints of trying to be a "realistic" table. But, that is my mere opinion.
      I am only going to reply to your response chiralfox since you seem to be the only person who really understood my post. No offense to the other people who responded, but they completely missed my point. By the way, are you a chemist?

      I forgot about the persistent progressive jackpots in Taxi and I think Cyclone had one as well. I can't remember any others off the top of my head. "A plethora of lousy players can lead to an immense one-time jackpot." That is what I hate about progressive jackpots that save from game to game. Epic Quest takes that to the extreme. If you want to go for the high score, you have to grind for xp to build up your rank and progressive jackpot. Then when you max out your rank and if you happen to be on a great run, you receive a ridiculous score multiplier. This was particularly annoying for me since I had my rank wiped out twice on the iPad, most recently when I updated the client when the Fantastic Four table came out.

      I don't necessarily mind having a single table with "meta"-game progression. But I have a big problem with it if, like the article states, that they are going to implement a progression "system" that might apply across all the tables. It seems to me this would reward the player who plays the table the most rather than the player with the most skill. I think that is bullshit and I would have a big problem with that.

      But then again, I could be totally wrong about what they mean by "meta"-game progression. It was one line in the article that stuck out. It is a bit vague and cryptic and the journalist did not seem to think it was important to ask any follow up questions. I think they mentioned they were developing this for FX3 and not ZP2 so I shouldn't be to worried about it in the near future.

      Though, I think there should be a discussion between Zen and their fans about what this progression system really is and how it will be implemented. I think a large number of us would have a problem with a unified progression system that leads to higher scoring across all the tables the more you play them.
      Last edited by surf1der; 07-18-2012, 08:40 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dinosaur Toy View Post
        Another example of a classic pure fantasy table would be Devil's Crush / Crash from the 16-bit era - a table that not only was full of roving characters and monsters, but was far too tall to be a real pinball cabinet. It was like 3 pinball tables in length.
        I think Sonic Spinball (Genesis/Mega Drive, Game Gear) would be a good example of Fantasy Pinball.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by surf1der View Post


          I don't necessarily mind having a single table with "meta"-game progression. But I have a big problem with it if, like the article states, that they are going to implement a progression "system" that might apply across all the tables. It seems to me this would reward the player who plays the table the most rather than the player with the most skill. I think that is bullshit and I would have a big problem with that.

          But then again, I could be totally wrong about what they mean by "meta"-game progression. It was one line in the article that stuck out. It is a bit vague and cryptic and the journalist did not seem to think it was important to ask any follow up questions. I think they mentioned they were developing this for FX3 and not ZP2 so I shouldn't be to worried about it in the near future.

          Though, I think there should be a discussion between Zen and their fans about what this progression system really is and how it will be implemented. I think a large number of us would have a problem with a unified progression system that leads to higher scoring across all the tables the more you play them.
          I think you might be reading into the "meta game progression" a bit too much. We're certainly not making each table (or future tables) like Epic Quest in that you can just grind out high scores and not really need much skill. From what I understand, it has more to do with Wizard/Super score across all tables than each table individually. Right now the way it's set up, your Marvel and Zen scores are separate, but with ZP2, this will all be combined into one platform, which (I think) is where they get the "meta game progression" idea.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
            I think you might be reading into the "meta game progression" a bit too much. We're certainly not making each table (or future tables) like Epic Quest in that you can just grind out high scores and not really need much skill. From what I understand, it has more to do with Wizard/Super score across all tables than each table individually. Right now the way it's set up, your Marvel and Zen scores are separate, but with ZP2, this will all be combined into one platform, which (I think) is where they get the "meta game progression" idea.
            I think the article refers FX3. I hope I am wrong. From the article that bearded warrior posted under the heading "The Future of Pinball":

            "In the meantime, Zen's latest original table, Epic Quest, gives a glimpse of one direction the developer plans to take with the new tables, by providing pervasive XP system that carries over from one game to the next."

            "Pinball FX3 will provide... a meta-game progression system that will hopefully give players an incentive to keep playing after a lousy first ball."

            This is what got me worried. I doesn't sound like it refers to all tables being combined into one platform. It sounds like something very different to me.

            I am sorry I posted this in the ZP2 forum and the confusion it may have caused. However, I did this because I replying to the link that Bearded Warrior posted in this thread.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by surf1der View Post
              I am only going to reply to your response chiralfox since you seem to be the only person who really understood my post. No offense to the other people who responded, but they completely missed my point.
              For future reference, if someone either doesn't "get" your point, or completely misses it, as you mildly put it. It would be beneficial if you would just say so, rather than ignore what we said because you felt it didn't have any credence to your post. I know you said "no offense", but I did feel like I wasn't smart enough to understand what you were mitigating since I didn't "get it". Now I'll say this again to you. I mean no disrespect. It's just a small suggestion when you're in forums like these. We're all still learning new ventures in pinball and from what I gathered, aren't know-it-alls. Had you explained yourself like you did with Chiralfox, I would have understood where you were coming from. Good day!
              PSN ID- RayCrocheron82
              Gamertag- RAFIE82
              YouTube- Rafie Crocheron
              Nintendo ID- Rafie82

              Tables Wishlist- Hanna-Barbera 4 pack, Holiday table, DC tables, or any Zen table...even if it's My Little Pony

              Comment


              • I'm sorry Rafie, what exactly are you trying to tell me with no disrespect? I think it is funny how people qualify what they say with things like "with all due respect" or "i mean no disrespect" and then go on to say things that are disrespectful. Hell, I just did it when I said "no offense" and then was dismissive towards those who did not understand my post.

                I think I was dismissive of others because Chiralfox clearly understood what I was talking about while others seemed to think because I said Epic Quest was not pinball they felt the need to talk about pinball simulation vs. fantasy vs. augmented reality (that's a new one for me) and physics etc. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. If you and others continued reading it was clear I was talking about scoring mechanics. Chiralfox clearly understood that and presented a good counter-argument that persistent progressive jackpots exist in a few real world pinball machines.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by surf1der View Post
                  I'm sorry Rafie, what exactly are you trying to tell me with no disrespect? I think it is funny how people qualify what they say with things like "with all due respect" or "i mean no disrespect" and then go on to say things that are disrespectful. Hell, I just did it when I said "no offense" and then was dismissive towards those who did not understand my post.

                  I think I was dismissive of others because Chiralfox clearly understood what I was talking about while others seemed to think because I said Epic Quest was not pinball they felt the need to talk about pinball simulation vs. fantasy vs. augmented reality (that's a new one for me) and physics etc. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. If you and others continued reading it was clear I was talking about scoring mechanics. Chiralfox clearly understood that and presented a good counter-argument that persistent progressive jackpots exist in a few real world pinball machines.
                  I guess I was trying to tell you the same thing you were telling me by saying "no offense". What did I actually say that was disrespectful?! I told you how you came off by that post and replied to it. Obviously "we" didn't get the "clear" picture you were exhibiting. I wasn't even trying to argue in the first place abut what's fantasy and what's reality.

                  My feelings weren't hurt, but I felt belittled. That's all. I don't want to argue, so I'll end it here and move on. I really am sorry for the disruption forum, if I caused one.
                  PSN ID- RayCrocheron82
                  Gamertag- RAFIE82
                  YouTube- Rafie Crocheron
                  Nintendo ID- Rafie82

                  Tables Wishlist- Hanna-Barbera 4 pack, Holiday table, DC tables, or any Zen table...even if it's My Little Pony

                  Comment


                  • Lol Rafie. I was just giving you a hard time. I like to tease a bit. I tend to come off as an a%$hole sometimes. My wife hates when I do it to her.

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                    • LOL Funny thing we have in common. My wife hates that I do that to her as well. Good stuff man! Now we can move on to, "where is our Zen Pinball 2?"

                      You don't have to answer that, Barbie. I already know that you don't know and that we're getting a date soon. (judging from the last person that asked you that) That question was rhetorical, unless you have a surprise for us!
                      PSN ID- RayCrocheron82
                      Gamertag- RAFIE82
                      YouTube- Rafie Crocheron
                      Nintendo ID- Rafie82

                      Tables Wishlist- Hanna-Barbera 4 pack, Holiday table, DC tables, or any Zen table...even if it's My Little Pony

                      Comment


                      • Ya guys gotta know by now when the release date is...I can't wait and we need more trophies....Zen Pinball Rules!
                        "Zen Pinball Rules!"

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                        • Originally posted by Kemetman View Post
                          Ya guys gotta know by now when the release date is...I can't wait and we need more trophies....Zen Pinball Rules!
                          Nothing yet! *SIGH* This wait is pure torture :P

                          Comment


                          • Well, a wise man once said that "patience is a virtue".
                            So please, take your time and make it perfect.
                            Personally, I'd rather wait for ZP2 (as long as it takes) until it's 100% ready & glitch free rather having a rushed product release (something so common this gen)!

                            With that said, of course, I wouldn't mind it being released next week! ;P
                            PSN: DreamyElf

                            Comment


                            • We don't wanna be virtuous, we wanna play!!

                              But I know, that's right. It will take the time it needs. I am so used to wait with Final Fantasy games after all. And the final result has always been perfect! Zen Studio seems to follow the same road. Fortunately they are NOT like Bethesda (publish it now, patch it many times later. Still deliver a broken product)!!

                              Comment


                              • Hi all, I would just like to thank Zen Studios for making these great pinball games (& others like Kickbeat) and I can't wait for Zen Pinball 2. What ever the reason for the delay, I hope it arrives very soon.

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