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Still no anti-aliasing in this game! For the love of god!

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  • Khronikos
    replied
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...and-remastered

    Competition could get a lot hotter if this return of Pro Pinball turns out to be good. I am pretty sure it would be if the kick hadn't been so low since they have an old time pinball designer on board and are aiming for high-end prerenders. I know I am pledging a couple dollars towards it. I think Zen can definitely beat them up at least on PC as they have a timeline reaching into late next year for the tables to appear. It does appear as if their kickstarter will fall short but they should have given it much more time and hope they still do. Prerendered of course has some drawbacks.

    I would think you guys, if not held back by exclusive deals, should get your game on Steam pronto. You have the tables that the others don't for sure and all those DLC ones and the originals could be ported to 1080p fairly easily even if the assets are not that high they would still look pretty damn good. You could also make some optimizations. I would pretty much buy all of them if you had a decent bundle.

    But these other guys still make a good game as well. Have to see how it will turn out. Pinball on the brain!

    Also, I'm pretty sure surf is just goofing. Maybe that rant was a little too much. All the same that is how I feel. Really it comes down to me wanting a definitive experience. Instead of ranting on the aged PS3, yes I am so damn tired of it, I should have just suggested you guys try your hardest to get this rolling on Steam. Sorry about that. I know the PS3 can be tricky at times.
    Last edited by Khronikos; 09-27-2012, 12:49 AM.

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  • surf1der
    replied
    Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Hi Khronikos, No feathers ruffled here (except maybe Surf), welcome to the forums, btw

    I hope you'll stick around! We do appreciate input from fans, so keep it coming!
    Don't be silly Barbie. I was just teasing him. This has been a great thread. I agree with you. I can also appreciate the great input from fans and I to would like them to keep more of the same coming! I mean this is great constructive criticism. Hell, solitude commented on it and he rarely comments on anything so this thread has been extremely important.

    "Still no anti-aliasing in this game! For the love of god!

    WHY! Why must you not put any anti-aliasing in this game. I refuse to buy these extra tables at this point though I sure want to. Not only can you guys not get your game running in 1080p you don't even support anti-aliasing. Meaning this game will just be rebought again on another next-gen console with better graphics and old tables for sale. YOU WILL inevitably rerelease all this stuff I know it. Why would you not? This game would look amazing in 1080p with 4xMSAA. Clean as a real table almost.

    Seriously, how is it that an ancient game like Warhawk can do 4xMSAA and you guys cannot even manage to throw FXAA or some other crappy method in there just to eliminate the jaggies. It's Pinball. This isn't Uncharted 2. Put some freakin' AA in your game or your next game. Your tables are beautiful and then you go and ruin that look with jaggies up the wazoo.

    Rant over--"

    Great stuff. Thank you Kronikos. Your input has been invaluable. Hopefully we can see 1080p and some great AA for ZP2 on the ps3 in the near future!

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  • BarbieBobomb
    replied
    Originally posted by Khronikos View Post
    "You think it is very easy to implement AA and 1080p on console games..."

    Again, feel free to take everything I say out of context.

    Nobody said 1080p was easy on consoles. It's quite obviously not. AA on the other hand much easier. Maybe not quality AA but AA nonetheless.

    Sorry to be a fanboy of something or another but this is a zen pinball 2 forum and I, as an owner of the game, have a right to voice my opinion.

    "You feel sorry for us because we don't understand how great 1080p and AA is." True, but you see you do know how great they are because there are many games that use them. I have at least 10 1080p native PSN games. Ico looks absolutely fabulous on PS3 and, despite being a PS2 game, the artstyle totally still holds up. To one of those comments said way up above they couldn't even get Shadow of the Colossus running at 1080p so these old engines are not exactly easy for the PS3 to do.

    Anyway, wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers on here but criticism is just that to fanboys. Sorry, but criticism improves games if people take it to heart. I alone was the one complaining on Costume Quest and those guys were nice enough to take my complaints to heart because in reality they agreed with me. Despite me being too overzealous, I do apologize but it seems no one hears you otherwise these days, I still think I have a very important point that has been made.

    And I hope you guys get on Steam at some point. All we have is some lame pinball game at the moment that nobody buys.
    Hi Khronikos, No feathers ruffled here (except maybe Surf), welcome to the forums, btw

    I hope you'll stick around! We do appreciate input from fans, so keep it coming!

    Leave a comment:


  • Khronikos
    replied
    "You think it is very easy to implement AA and 1080p on console games..."

    Again, feel free to take everything I say out of context.

    Nobody said 1080p was easy on consoles. It's quite obviously not. AA on the other hand much easier. Maybe not quality AA but AA nonetheless.

    Sorry to be a fanboy of something or another but this is a zen pinball 2 forum and I, as an owner of the game, have a right to voice my opinion.

    "You feel sorry for us because we don't understand how great 1080p and AA is." True, but you see you do know how great they are because there are many games that use them. I have at least 10 1080p native PSN games. Ico looks absolutely fabulous on PS3 and, despite being a PS2 game, the artstyle totally still holds up. To one of those comments said way up above they couldn't even get Shadow of the Colossus running at 1080p so these old engines are not exactly easy for the PS3 to do.

    Anyway, wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers on here but criticism is just that to fanboys. Sorry, but criticism improves games if people take it to heart. I alone was the one complaining on Costume Quest and those guys were nice enough to take my complaints to heart because in reality they agreed with me. Despite me being too overzealous, I do apologize but it seems no one hears you otherwise these days, I still think I have a very important point that has been made.

    And I hope you guys get on Steam at some point. All we have is some lame pinball game at the moment that nobody buys.
    Last edited by Khronikos; 09-24-2012, 07:01 PM.

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  • surf1der
    replied
    Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Surf, let it go. Don't be so argumentative.
    I call it like I see it.

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  • BarbieBobomb
    replied
    Originally posted by surf1der View Post
    We get it already. You're a pc/steam fanboy. You think it is very easy to implement AA and 1080p on console games and there is no reasonable explanation as to why zen studios should not implement these features immediately for consoles. You feel sorry for us because we don't understand how great 1080p and AA is. And you refuse to support the developers by buying DLC until you get AA and/or 1080p even though you like the game and you think the game looks good but not good enough. We got it.
    Surf, let it go. Don't be so argumentative.

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  • surf1der
    replied
    We get it already. You're a pc/steam fanboy. You think it is very easy to implement AA and 1080p on console games and there is no reasonable explanation as to why zen studios should not implement these features immediately for consoles. You feel sorry for us because we don't understand how great 1080p and AA is. And you refuse to support the developers by buying DLC until you get AA and/or 1080p even though you like the game and you think the game looks good but not good enough. We got it.

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  • Khronikos
    replied
    I NEVER said, to my knowledge, that this game looks terrible. It doesn't look terrible but there is certainly room to make it almost timeless with a Steam version. These consoles are ancient history I understand that and rarely do my gaming on them anymore besides the Sony exclusives.

    But I know that this game could look a lot better. For that reason I don't want to shell out for the DLC though I really do want ALL of it.

    Simple fix would be to release this on Steam. I can guarantee you good sales because there is literally NO COMPETITION on steam and many people are fans of this game and all your tables. GREAT to hear that you may want to consider that approach. I think devs who don't are missing out on some great communities.

    IF this was released on steam I would buy every dlc you have without a question asked. I don't want to compare this to big budget games but you asked for the comparison when you said hardly any games have any AA. Almost everyone coming out today has some kind of post processing AA and too many are sadly sub 720p. To many of us with PCs this gen is dead in the water besides the first party devs. I play literally all 3rd party games on PC with my PS3 pad. It's like an extension of my PS3 lol.

    I didn't really think I was getting out of hand or yelling at anybody. This is a forum. I'm typing not yelling. Anyway you have it I still think a post processing method could help the PS3 version along but I won't beat the point any further. It's not like I would ever touch the PS3 version again if you ported this to Steam.

    Now I am not really asking for any coding to be done to satisfy my little heart I was just saying Sony's MLAA does not require a ton of resources though obviously it has a ton of sub pixel drawbacks although Naughty Dog's newest version of their custom AA looks to be the best yet. As for the Pixar comparisons STOP taking my quotes and ideas out of context. The only thing I was stating is that in ALL 3D rendering AA is one of the most important things any dev pays attention to these days as far as polishing the picture and making it appear more real or less diminished.

    I was talking to the Costume Quest guys on Steam about this, they had NO AA in their games, and they were nice enough to make an option for post processing in game OR supersampling from the Steam Menu which basically makes their artstyle look timeless. It fixed everything wrong about the game for people who play on large monitors or really anyone in general. I'm sorry but jaggies destroy immersion for a good part of us. I think people are just waaaaaay to used the awful quality of consoles this gen besides the first party stuff. Yes, Skyrim looks like an abysmal and utter disaster on consoles and the PS3 version is the worst.

    On PC the modders have made that game, and others like Dark Souls, ten times the game they were on consoles and that is just a fact. I wish everybody could play those games with high-end PC because they are seriously missing out. Same with BF3 and all the others. The detail in 1080p at 60fps with tons of AA is simply amazing.

    I'm sorry if people cannot grasp the idea that this game would be stunning in 1080p with either forced MSAA from menu or in game options. It would indeed look stunning and would be all I need for pinball for some time. I hope it someday comes to Steam. I would personally stay the hell away from GFWL as most people hate it and it does affect sales plus patching costs a boatload.
    Last edited by Khronikos; 09-24-2012, 12:39 PM.

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  • chiralfox
    replied
    to the OP

    Sit farther away from your television. It's free anti-aliasing. No. I'm not joking.

    Trying to make comparisons to Hollywood special effects is also absurd. Hollywood gets to run frame-by-frame renders on a server farm. Incidentally, back in the days of Jurassic Park and T2, texturing was considered the key element of making things look realistic.

    On my PC, if I have a choice, I would generally take the best features that offer a playable frame rate in order of texture filtering, lighting, resolution, and then anti-aliasing in that order. I know what I like to look at. Maybe your opinion differs, fine, whatever. But you keep trying to make this point that AA is free, either from a development standpoint (it's not, someone has to code it) or from a hardware standpoint (it's not, keeping an SPU open is still a cost).

    I would be a lot more sympathetic if your posts were remotely close to polite (to the devs). I don't yell at the wait staff because a meal doesn't match my expectations.

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  • Solitude
    replied
    Originally posted by Khronikos View Post
    I post on Beyond3d regularly. Anyway, there are tons of games on PS3 with great graphics and AA. I just listed a bazillion of them lofl. Sorry, but Sony's implementation of MLAA is almost free from an engine standpoint. Guerrilla Games and others have pretty much confirmed this. At least if you leave a SPU open for it which there is simply no way this game is using all the SPUs to max. It's friggin' pinball.

    Your assertion that AA is not one of the main things about graphics is absurd. Do you have a PC? Are you aware of how great games look without jaggies. It is literally on the top 3 most important things about 3d rendering because it makes the picture appeal to your eyes in a more realistic fashion. I have a high-end fully backlit LED 42 inches and yes I sit close and yes I have a high-end PC as well. There is a reason hollywood studios use enormous amounts of AA.

    The fact is this game needs some kind of AA. If it doesn't get it fine but please look into porting this great game to STEAM where you would find a very nice audience as there are no good pinball games on there. Please, from a financial standpoint porting to STEAM is not that costly and they basically give you free patches or near that. Many devs are surprises at how well their game do on Steam.
    We'll be doing a PC version that has support for AA, etc.

    Not sure how we're supposed to be feature-equivalent with a 1st party title with a boatload of engineers and a bazillion-dollar budget. (Althoguh I'd also like to point out that there are a lot of big-budget games on PS3 that don't have AA. Not to mention the whole Skyrim thing...)

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  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by maink View Post
    i have no idea what you talking about , it says im my signature i don't have a pc , i still game on a big old school tv.
    He quoted the wrong person.

    To answer your question, jaggies are those ridges on what suppose to be a straight line. Just play a PS1 game and you will notice them instantly.

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  • surf1der
    replied
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...deon,2868.html

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  • maink
    replied
    i have no idea what you talking about , it says im my signature i don't have a pc , i still game on a big old school tv .

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  • surf1der
    replied
    @Krhonikos: If it looks that terrible to you then don't buy any dlc. I can't recall anyone but you complaining about how terrible the game looks because of a lack of aa. I rarely notice it around habitrails when I actively look for it but don't even notice it during game play. The game most likely plays at a native resolution of 720p due to its 3d support. The ps3 just can't handle 3d at 1080p. Pinball fx2 will be available at the windows store when win8 releases. Perhaps you would prefer that version. I haven't heard nor i have i cared to ask what type of aa the pc version will have, if any. I haven't heard of any plans to release on steam.

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  • Khronikos
    replied
    "It is also a possibility that any issues you notice might be a mix of software and hardware; not all televisions or monitors are made equally. That possibility cannot be dismissed."

    Please. Enough with the crap. I have a very expensive system that includes high-end products all around.

    The game has a ton of aliasing. It's that simple. If you can't see it you are blind or you have no idea what you are looking at.
    Last edited by Khronikos; 09-23-2012, 03:13 PM.

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