Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is Zen pinball overly easy?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Townes
    replied
    One thing I've noticed with these longer lasting game is a real sense of progression. When I began Blade, I could last awhile and get nothing done. Now that I know what to do, I can get so much more done in a shorter span of time by far. If this was a real game, it might just be a ton of drained balls and less chances to practice shots.

    Leave a comment:


  • zaphod77
    replied
    that strategy seems to be fixed in the steam version, as that sinkhole is impossible to hit with any consistency.

    As for aim assist, there's definitely very obvious amounts of it on some shots, such as the two upper flipper shots in Spider-Man. for any slow moving ball, any reasonable shot will pick either one or the other. Fast balls are more difficult to handle.

    That said some sort of aim assist tends to be needed, to prevent the problem of shots becoming literally impossible because one frame is too early and one is too late. It's been a problem of computer pinball for ages. It's hard to get it right, and very few games do. One that did was pinball fantasies.
    Last edited by zaphod77; 08-16-2013, 04:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by OriginalEther View Post
    What is it, 10 million for beating Ultimo?
    20 million points in all for completing the wizard mode. 1 million points for each flame ball hit (10 in all) and a 10 million point completion bonus.

    Leave a comment:


  • OriginalEther
    replied
    I've only played it a few times, but I think part of the perception of Iron Man's difficulty is how low-scoring it is.
    Last I checked, no one on the Xbox side has hit a billion. Ironic given that it was released with Spider-Man.

    What is it, 10 million for beating Ultimo? Even older tables like Rome give you more than that for a garrison mission (well, the Southern one at least).

    Leave a comment:


  • tenorhero
    replied
    Originally posted by Cloda View Post
    Yeah I remember that. I usually do for the extra balls and that's it. I just can't fathom doing that over, and over again. Besides that. The table was my favorite only because of the challenge and interesting scoring opportunities available for each hero a la Stern's transformers.

    Now if they can make a table like Transformer's with more modes. Along side different multiballs. Even so I personally have CW in my top ten minus this scoring strategy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cloda
    replied
    Originally posted by zaphod77 View Post
    i didn't say it wasn't GOOD... i said it was HARD.

    But what is this point scoring trick that's so much easier than getting to wizard mode?
    Here you go:

    https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthr...rvel-Civil-War

    Leave a comment:


  • zaphod77
    replied
    i didn't say it wasn't GOOD... i said it was HARD.

    But what is this point scoring trick that's so much easier than getting to wizard mode?

    Leave a comment:


  • tenorhero
    replied
    Originally posted by zaphod77 View Post
    Marvel Civil War is MEAN though, because it has ways other then a drain to punish you. miss a shot, ball comes screaming down inlane, you miss your orbit, oops there goes someone to the enemy. Accidentally whack a drop target? even if there ARE no enemies, if you don't hit that finicky flash ramp you have one now. Bump a safehouse target? better hit that randomly picked shot in 15 seconds, adn not a kickout which will hold it for at least three of them. And to get the real points you have to claw your way back from 8 enemies after the first wizard mode to reach the second! And many of those shots in fight mode are HARD. I've lost CAKEWALKS, because i just couldn't hit that one shot to save my life.
    I think Civil War is a n excellent table but there is a way to score points that doesn't have anything to do with collecting heroes and that has been exploited. Outside that I think CW ,Excalibur (Getting all the knights of the round table is pretty hard) and Fear Itself I think are Zen's toughest tables. And that's ok In my book as I love tables that are Challenging.

    IM is difficult only in getting to Wizard mode IMO. Once you drain in the Wizard mode that's it. You have to start all over again. There are other tables that does this too. Fantastic Four, X-men I think, and Thor and others I don't remember off the top of my head. Though it's not that bad considering it's slightly easier to get to wizard mode. IM's has too many modes to finish before Wizard mode as you have to light the required Stark lights (Tower, Stock Market etc) and complete all the Mandarin, Whiplash missions.

    Notice that Fan favorite tables are those that you can get to the wizard mode without actually completing the missions. Sorcerer's lair is one of those that is like that. You don't have to complete the missions just activate them. So it's not a task that needs to be done. This is why Real life machines like Adam's Family Twilight Zone and others are the highest rated. Sure, There are ways to use those missions/Modes to your advantage and score tons of points, but getting to the final mode is much more accessible than only pinball wizards.

    Leave a comment:


  • zaphod77
    replied
    I agree this is one of the tables with a difficult wizard mode, but the way it was talked up, i thought i was going to have MUCH more difficulty playing it.

    The main key is to have the discipline to always relight those kickbacks. Sure you won't always be punished, but it's often enough that you will kick yourself every time it happens.

    I have recently become aware that the version i'm playing is easier than it was at release, it used to take all six lanes twice to light both kickbacks! This makes it more of a test of patience. Now it's three lanes for each, and that's VERY doable.

    Marvel Civil War is MEAN though, because it has ways other then a drain to punish you. miss a shot, ball comes screaming down inlane, you miss your orbit, oops there goes someone to the enemy. Accidentally whack a drop target? even if there ARE no enemies, if you don't hit that finicky flash ramp you have one now. Bump a safehouse target? better hit that randomly picked shot in 15 seconds, adn not a kickout which will hold it for at least three of them. And to get the real points you have to claw your way back from 8 enemies after the first wizard mode to reach the second! And many of those shots in fight mode are HARD. I've lost CAKEWALKS, because i just couldn't hit that one shot to save my life.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prtmcluesrol
    replied
    This game is the hardest game i have ever played in my whole life. i thought getting the platinum on Gran turismo 5 was very hard. until i played this.

    To everyone who thinks this is easy, try getting all trophies in ZEN pinball 1 or 2. a few trophies took me 50 hours each.

    Leave a comment:


  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by zaphod77 View Post
    I don't understand why people say iron man is hard.

    actually no wait, i do.

    The key to iron man is knowing what the drain hazards are, and mitigating them.

    The game is VERY fair.
    Try beating the wizard mode which was a trophy requirement on the Marvel Pinball platform. That's the reason why it was labeled as the most difficult table in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cloda
    replied
    Originally posted by zaphod77 View Post
    I don't understand why people say iron man is hard.

    actually no wait, i do.

    The key to iron man is knowing what the drain hazards are, and mitigating them.

    The game is VERY fair.

    I AM surprised i know more than the developers about how to play iron man, though. And i'm not a super hardcore player. Oh, the real hardest table? Marvel Civil War. That one is BRUTAL.
    Well thought out tips. I wrote a strategy guide for the Xbox version a year or so ago that nicely compliments yours I think:

    https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthr...an-wizard-mode

    I agree that Ironman's gameplay itself is not the hardest but to beat Ultimo is one of if not the toughest challenge from all the tables. I have only done it once and it was a real pain as it was the last one I required for my 100% achievement completion. Blade and Thor's wizard modes also gave me a tough time and then of course Mars to get past the pyramid mission.

    Leave a comment:


  • zaphod77
    replied
    I don't understand why people say iron man is hard.

    actually no wait, i do.

    The key to iron man is knowing what the drain hazards are, and mitigating them.

    The game is VERY fair.

    Any standup can and will drain the ball.

    In particular, balls tend to go down the right outlane when they hit the mission hole standups.

    The LOCK targets, on the other hand ARE safe, but the ball rebounds off them fast, so you have to be alert to stop the center drain.

    Knowing this, do not shoot for those killer standups unless the ball save or right kickback is lit. make sure that both kickbacks are lit whenever you start a mission.

    Learn the two ramps that feed the lower flippers. Shoot them a LOT. The ballsaver is not worth it, because the targets that light it are themselves drain hazards.

    The ramp shot from the upper flipper is 95% safe or better, 5% or less you will get a left outlane drain from a rollback it.

    If you shoot the tower ramp, just hold the upper flipper up to safely transfer the ball to the lower right flipper. you can also do the same after a side ramp shot. From there, shoot that left ramp to light a lane.

    The right ramp is sorta dangerous, because misses can hit the lethal mission hole targets or the lock drop targets. so if you aren't confident in that shot, shoot the orbit instead, then shoot the upper ramp, them send the ball to the lower right flipper for a shot at the left one, which is a LOT safer to shoot for. But you still need to learn that shot.

    Beyond that, there are only a few complications.

    In whiplash attack mode, sometimes he whips your ball. this simply causes a new one to be autoplunge,d and delivered to the upper flipper. not a real problem.

    The flame attack mode is dangerous because it makes you hit those standups. It's also timed. so be sure and start it only when the right kickback is lit AND you have two lanes filled. You will kick yourself if you drain at the right outlane in this one. You don't have the time to relight it during the mode unless you are at 2 out of three when you start.

    In one of the modes, where you load the cannon by hitting the LIT hole, there's no safe way to feed the other flipper if you are on the wrong one to shoot the lit hole with. so try not to miss with the guns. it takes a lot of practice, but it will pay off.

    If you steer clear of the mission hole, it's not uncommon to complete everything else on the entire table on your first ball!

    TO safely handle an autoplunge hold the upper flipper up. It has a 1 in five chance of nOT going straight to the right inlane, but i've NEVER had it do something i couldn't save it from.

    After shooting the tower ramp, you can hold the upper flipper up and dead bounce from lower right to lower left.

    Once in a while, the kickout from the mission hole will be almost straight down! be alert for it, as that can be hard to deal with.

    I find infinity gauntlet a MUCH more difficult table.

    I AM surprised i know more than the developers about how to play iron man, though. And i'm not a super hardcore player. Oh, the real hardest table? Marvel Civil War. That one is BRUTAL.
    Last edited by zaphod77; 08-12-2013, 03:52 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ER777
    replied
    Originally posted by surf1der View Post
    If you define the difficulty of a table as how easy or hard it is to keep a ball in play, a simple measure of average game duration across all players would give you an accurate measurement of table difficulty. If you wanted to take out the variable of extra balls, because you can extend game length if it is very easy to get extra balls, use average duration per ball. The higher the number the easier the table. And I believe these statistics are already collected by the game.
    I think that's the most sensible and common measure of difficulty for pinball, since it relates back to real world tables and how much play time you get for your money on them.

    So by those standards Zen 2 is on the easy side. The average duration per ball is pretty high compared to most pinball games.

    However, I agree that Zen 2 makes up for it in the difficulty of completing missions, especially the wizard modes.

    Leave a comment:


  • surf1der
    replied
    If you define the difficulty of a table as how easy or hard it is to keep a ball in play, a simple measure of average game duration across all players would give you an accurate measurement of table difficulty. If you wanted to take out the variable of extra balls, because you can extend game length if it is very easy to get extra balls, use average duration per ball. The higher the number the easier the table. And I believe these statistics are already collected by the game.

    Judging table difficulty by scoring is not a good idea because scoring mechanics can vary greatly from table to table. For example, i believe my infinity gauntlet and plants v zombies scores are very close. But i would consider ig to be a much harder game than pvz. I have very long pvz games (hours) but scoring is low while IG I have shorter games but higher scoring. Just because my scores are fairly similar, I don't think anyone would assume pvz and ig have similar difficulties. Also, certain tables have modes that can be spammed for big points which would skew results.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X