I really miss the Marvel tables :(

[falcon05]

Me too actually. I'm not sure exactly why though. Maybe because Star Wars is just overexposed in general. I can't deny the quality and production value of the tables themselves. It's superb. I just think in direct comparison to the Marvel themes it feels dead. Star Wars was 30 years ago. The Marvel characters live on forever are constantly evolving and living out new stories in the comics. It's more dynamic. Star Wars feels more static.

For me it's more because all Star Wars tables ultimately feels like one theme. Whereas Marvel tables, while they are all superheroes, provide a much more diverse theme and background overall. I agree the quality of production for the Star Wars table is top notch and at the end of the day a good table is a good table, but I also like variety so things don't get boring as I switch between tables.

However I am pretty sure the Star Wars tables will help draw in a big crowd who would otherwise never even consider pinball. I was aware of Zen pinball's existence but never got interested until I found out about Marvel themed tables. Now Sorcerer's Lair and Paranormal are my two favourite tables.

[Bearded_Warrior]

EDIT: I just realized that I pretty much quit playing Zen entirely after the SW tables came out. I guess that theme really did kill it for me. Bummer.

Me too actually. I'm not sure exactly why though. Maybe because Star Wars is just overexposed in general. I can't deny the quality and production value of the tables themselves. It's superb. I just think in direct comparison to the Marvel themes it feels dead. Star Wars was 30 years ago. The Marvel characters live on forever are constantly evolving and living out new stories in the comics. It's more dynamic. Star Wars feels more static.

[Metalzoic]

A zen original 4-pack sounds amazing too. Damn I am getting greedy.

That's what I want. Like most I own every single table, but I'm Sick to absolute death of the Marvel tables.
I don't really like the Star Wars theme or tables. I played them a bit, but not even 1/10th as much as my lest favorite real tables. I probably wouldn't even buy another SW table after those.

I want new originals or old remakes from FX2.

EDIT: I just realized that I pretty much quit playing Zen entirely after the SW tables came out. I guess that theme really did kill it for me. Bummer.

[snakeman07]

I definitely miss the Marvel tables. I haven't been playing much ZP2 lately because I've been burnt out (never thought I'd hear the words come out of my mouth!). The Star Wars tables didn't last long for me, I guess because I'm just not as big of a fan of Star Wars as some of you are. I feel the Marvel tables did a great job of keeping me hooked in some way, and I hope to see a return of that, so to speak.

[falcon05]

I would like to provide a little perspective from someone who would like to see less Marvel and more non-licensed tables. First of all, the marvel-licensed tables have made up the bulk of Zen's releases for the last 2 or 3 years. We've had Marvel packs and standalones with a few originals (1 licensed PvZ) thrown in as well. And we have another Marvel table in the pipeline. On the Zen Pinball 2 platform, more than half of the entire library is made up of Marvel themed tables. I think it is a little less than half on the 360 because of all the FX1 tables that the other platforms don't have. I believe Civil War was the last Marvel table released and I think the only thing released since then has been the Star Wars pack. So, it's not like Marvel has been an abandoned or neglected theme.

You are right. Though for some reason Civil War feels like a long long time ago.

I guess my point is that I would like see originals alternated with the big licensed tables. And not just standalone tables. The Zen Pinball series has had only 1 original pack that released when it was launched 4 or 5 years ago. I was a little bummed when ZP2 was released without another Zen original pack. I have faith that table designers have enough creativity and experience to produce some excellent packs of original tables! And you don't have to pay licensing fees!

A zen original 4-pack sounds amazing too. Damn I am getting greedy.

[Cloda]

I would like to provide a little perspective from someone who would like to see less Marvel and more non-licensed tables. First of all, the marvel-licensed tables have made up the bulk of Zen's releases for the last 2 or 3 years. We've had Marvel packs and standalones with a few originals (1 licensed PvZ) thrown in as well. And we have another Marvel table in the pipeline. On the Zen Pinball 2 platform, more than half of the entire library is made up of Marvel themed tables. I think it is a little less than half on the 360 because of all the FX1 tables that the other platforms don't have. I believe Civil War was the last Marvel table released and I think the only thing released since then has been the Star Wars pack. So, it's not like Marvel has been an abandoned or neglected theme.

When you look at the quality and lasting appeal of the tables, you have to consider that the table designers have become more experienced and innovative over time. And since the last few years have been almost exclusively Marvel themed tables, of course they would probably be better in terms of layout and rulesets. The artwork and soundtracks have also gotten better.

I understand that big licenses help draw in new players and expose them to the niche genre that is pinball. And this helps expand the user base. Furthermore, I would imagine that big licensed tables sell more. However, when you listen to the new players (I've been following the steam forum for fx2) a lot of the originals like Epic Quest, Paranormal, and Sorcerer's Lair have been mentioned as favorites. I guess my point is that I would like see originals alternated with the big licensed tables. And not just standalone tables. The Zen Pinball series has had only 1 original pack that released when it was launched 4 or 5 years ago. I was a little bummed when ZP2 was released without another Zen original pack. I have faith that table designers have enough creativity and experience to produce some excellent packs of original tables! And you don't have to pay licensing fees!

Thanks for your great point of view and for explaining it so clearly. I am in full agreement with the points you made. As a person with a love for pinball I take each table on merit to decide if it is great or not. As such I get excited each time a new table is announced and released. It's not the theme per se, but more the way that the theme is used to build the rules and layout of the table that interest me. As a whole Zen has been doing an excellent job and I wait in anticipation for new tables to be released.

[Bearded_Warrior]

Secondly, I can't tell you what we have planned as far as Marvel stuff goes, but HOLY HECK you are in for a treat! You know that we're a small team, so it does take a while to get content out - but I know you will be as excited as I am when you find out what we have planned. I will keep you all posted and let you know details when the time comes.

Well thanks for giving me some hope. A little hope can go a long way

Oh and as far as those Stern tables go, the X-Men table was released back in January. I played it and I can say the table is fun, but the voice work was "shotty" to put it nicely. Also they (Stern) has unofficially "borrowed" some things from the Zen version. I don't think the license is up so to speak. The contract is obviously still in place. I also think Deadpool is the most requested Marvel character to have a table in comparison to Daredevil.

I understand that it takes a lot of work, time, and money to make these tables from scratch. This is why I'm as patient as I am. I still understand everyone else's ordeal about how often tables should come. It's a bit more easier for those at FarSight to pump out the their tables like they have been doing. Zen hasn't done any kickstarters for their licenses or tables either. That's not a stab at FarSight, I'm just saying that Zen has been doing things on their own for a while now. I take all of this into consideration when it comes to Zen.

I've seen and played Stern's X-Men table and it was not that great. The bad voice acting, plastic ramps, and overall cheap feel to it was not impressive. Their latest machine is much better though

And FarSight doesn't do any original themes. It has to be much easier to basically cut and paste rather than make new tables.

[surf1der]

I would like to provide a little perspective from someone who would like to see less Marvel and more non-licensed tables. First of all, the marvel-licensed tables have made up the bulk of Zen's releases for the last 2 or 3 years. We've had Marvel packs and standalones with a few originals (1 licensed PvZ) thrown in as well. And we have another Marvel table in the pipeline. On the Zen Pinball 2 platform, more than half of the entire library is made up of Marvel themed tables. I think it is a little less than half on the 360 because of all the FX1 tables that the other platforms don't have. I believe Civil War was the last Marvel table released and I think the only thing released since then has been the Star Wars pack. So, it's not like Marvel has been an abandoned or neglected theme.

When you look at the quality and lasting appeal of the tables, you have to consider that the table designers have become more experienced and innovative over time. And since the last few years have been almost exclusively Marvel themed tables, of course they would probably be better in terms of layout and rulesets. The artwork and soundtracks have also gotten better.

I understand that big licenses help draw in new players and expose them to the niche genre that is pinball. And this helps expand the user base. Furthermore, I would imagine that big licensed tables sell more. However, when you listen to the new players (I've been following the steam forum for fx2) a lot of the originals like Epic Quest, Paranormal, and Sorcerer's Lair have been mentioned as favorites. I guess my point is that I would like see originals alternated with the big licensed tables. And not just standalone tables. The Zen Pinball series has had only 1 original pack that released when it was launched 4 or 5 years ago. I was a little bummed when ZP2 was released without another Zen original pack. I have faith that table designers have enough creativity and experience to produce some excellent packs of original tables! And you don't have to pay licensing fees!

[falcon05]

First of all, thanks for letting us know what you guys want to see! I can't tell you how nice it is to see thoughtful, well-written posts expressing concerns and wishes for the future. You guys rock

Secondly, I can't tell you what we have planned as far as Marvel stuff goes, but HOLY HECK you are in for a treat! You know that we're a small team, so it does take a while to get content out - but I know you will be as excited as I am when you find out what we have planned. I will keep you all posted and let you know details when the time comes.

Thanks Barbie, I am just happy that there is a plan in place for Zen's Marvel license. Very much looking forward to it.

[falcon05]

To be honest, I don't think they've alienated the Marvel fan base. I just think they slowed down the Marvel thing to make room for the Star Wars jump. Also, the amount of complaints Zen has gotten over the months about being burned out on Marvel may have helped with the slow down. I for one am glad about any Zen table coming in the near future. No matter what it is.

Yes I think there was a vocal group of players who were very sick of Marvel themed tables and wanted more Zen originals. I totally understand that sentiment and I have no problems with Zen slowing down their Marvel output in favour of their originals. What I was worrying about mainly was that Zen decides to give up on the Marvel license completely after the Dr. Strange table.

[BarbieBobomb]

First of all, thanks for letting us know what you guys want to see! I can't tell you how nice it is to see thoughtful, well-written posts expressing concerns and wishes for the future. You guys rock

Secondly, I can't tell you what we have planned as far as Marvel stuff goes, but HOLY HECK you are in for a treat! You know that we're a small team, so it does take a while to get content out - but I know you will be as excited as I am when you find out what we have planned. I will keep you all posted and let you know details when the time comes.

[Rafie]

To be honest, I don't think they've alienated the Marvel fan base. I just think they slowed down the Marvel thing to make room for the Star Wars jump. Also, the amount of complaints Zen has gotten over the months about being burned out on Marvel may have helped with the slow down. I for one am glad about any Zen table coming in the near future. No matter what it is.

Oh and as far as those Stern tables go, the X-Men table was released back in January. I played it and I can say the table is fun, but the voice work was "shotty" to put it nicely. Also they (Stern) has unofficially "borrowed" some things from the Zen version. I don't think the license is up so to speak. The contract is obviously still in place. I also think Deadpool is the most requested Marvel character to have a table in comparison to Daredevil.

I understand that it takes a lot of work, time, and money to make these tables from scratch. This is why I'm as patient as I am. I still understand everyone else's ordeal about how often tables should come. It's a bit more easier for those at FarSight to pump out the their tables like they have been doing. Zen hasn't done any kickstarters for their licenses or tables either. That's not a stab at FarSight, I'm just saying that Zen has been doing things on their own for a while now. I take all of this into consideration when it comes to Zen.

I hope we hear something soon about how often tables come and what's to come.

[Bearded_Warrior]

There have been no new tables since February. Sure SW tables coming in the fall. but the lack of Consistent pinball tables is a bit disturbing.

Yes bring on Dr Strange. Deadpool too. Anyhow Stern Pinball recently released X-men and Avengers pinball so perhaps the Marvel License is finished for Zen.

I just would like some new tables to play as much as I'm enjoying the tables I have now.

Neil Sorens already said that they wouldn't do a Deadpool (or Punisher) table because they wouldn't be able to do it justice with the game's E10 ESRB rating. And yeah, a couple of tables each quarter rather then three in the first half of the year and three in the second would be better balanced. And I know we've voiced our opinions on this in the past as well.

I will echo that sentiment. I know a lot of people were fed up with Marvel themed pinball tables but I still believe there is a large Marvel fan base out there that has yet to be exposed to the world of Marvel pinball and a good portion of existing fans that will still love more Marvel.

This reminds me of another point I wanted to make. Zen really made a name for itself with the Marvel tables and abandoning them like this has alienated their fan base a bit. It's like when a musician gets really popular with one style of music and then after a decade of that and a huge cult following they decide to change their style and try something new. But it's not the same and the old school fans are like, "this is okay, but let's get back to what you do best". That's kind of where I am right now.

[falcon05]

I will echo that sentiment. I know a lot of people were fed up with Marvel themed pinball tables but I still believe there is a large Marvel fan base out there that has yet to be exposed to the world of Marvel pinball and a good portion of existing fans that will still love more Marvel. I myself only found out about this wonderful game a few months ago when the game has already been out for over two years.

Characters or themes that I would love to see added to the Marvel pinball collection:

Dr. Strange, Daredevil (probably the highest profile Marvel character without a table), Black Panther, Ant-Man (think of the interesting shrinking/growing mechanic you can play with), Heroes for Hire and Guardians of the Galaxy. Should add to the Avengers chronicles too with Age of Ultron (movie just announced) and other Avengers/cross over themed tables (Avengers chronicles pack was one of the best among not just Marvel pinball, but all the tables released by Zen so far).

I know some people are worried that this will take Zen's design team away from their original tables and Star Wars tables but I think if they keep a balanced effort between all of them Zen can still handle pushing out tables from each area regularly.

[tenorhero]

Honestly, I would love just any table right now. Be it something original, Star wars or otherwise. Yes I would still love Marvel table just as much. I think there are those that turn away because of the amount of tables that was released. There are many including myself that would like something different than Marvel or SW.


There have been no new tables since February. Sure SW tables coming in the fall. but the lack of Consistent pinball tables is a bit disturbing.

Yes bring on Dr Strange. Deadpool too. Anyhow Stern Pinball recently released X-men and Avengers pinball so perhaps the Marvel License is finished for Zen.

I just would like some new tables to play as much as I'm enjoying the tables I have now.