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  • hunter328
    replied
    Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
    To be perfectly honest, I never look at the Pro Scores. The Pro Score was always easy to inflate by just buying all of the tables and taking advantage of the tables with simple high scoring opportunities. I'm not even counting the Super Football League table skins.

    I keep on asking the question, what about the people that don't have a lot of money and can only buy a few tables? I personally find the trophy data to be more useful. Case and point, I have a friend that's really good at pinball, but he only owns half of the tables. His Pro Score is pretty low, but he has pretty good leaderboard scores on the individual tables that he owns. Plus, he has unlock all of the trophies on those said tables. I find him to be a much better player compared to some that have a really high Pro Scores, but only have about half of the trophies unlocked. He definitely gives me a run for my money during our online games.
    Pro score was something that was great for those who had all the different tables to compete on. Asking about those who don't own all the tables isn't very relevant. That's what individual table leaderboards are for.
    Since you haven't looked at proscores in so long then I guess you don't realize they don't work like they used to so long ago where it was just a total combined score and easy tables could drastically change your position. Having each table weighted the same fixed all that awhile ago though.

    The news that this can't be changed is disappointing to me. It's surprising how much of a factor that leaderboard competition had on my returning to play almost daily, but since this change I've hardly played at all. I guess I find it much easier to get burned out on the game without that added motivation. I just can't see purchasing basically the same table I already have another handful of times just to get that back though.

    Leave a comment:


  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by Metalzoic View Post
    Err... it's not exactly the same since there is only a single SFL table. It is only the skins that differ.
    So basically people are forced to re-buy the same table multiple times (are there 8 skins?) to keep the Pro-Score valid.
    It's just the way the game treats the skins. To you they may look separate, but to the game each skin is a different table and that means each one is added to the Pro Score. It's not something that can probably be easily fixed with a bandage (err patch). Most likely the only way to fix it is to overhaul the entire game engine and then re-release the game again completely.
    Last edited by shogun00; 05-07-2014, 10:09 PM.

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  • Metalzoic
    replied
    Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Not an oversight, it is the exact same for every table. The more tables you play, the higher your pro score. Each of these tables are handled just like all the others - as a full price table that is included in the pro score calculations. Looking it from the other side – if I purchase multiple SLF tables, do I not deserve to include my purchased tables in the pro score calculation? We had to charge for each separate team table, there was just no way around it.
    Err... it's not exactly the same since there is only a single SFL table. It is only the skins that differ.
    So basically people are forced to re-buy the same table multiple times (are there 8 skins?) to keep the Pro-Score valid.

    Blows my mind that you guys did it that way. Oh well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phobos790
    replied
    Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Not an oversight, it is the exact same for every table. The more tables you play, the higher your pro score. Each of these tables are handled just like all the others - as a full price table that is included in the pro score calculations. Looking it from the other side – if I purchase multiple SLF tables, do I not deserve to include my purchased tables in the pro score calculation? We had to charge for each separate team table, there was just no way around it.
    Thank you for responding Barbie.

    But if it is the exact same for every table, why is there not an individual leader board for each team/skin since the tables are full price? It would benefit those of us who need to know our high score for each and as of now, there's no way to tell...

    Leave a comment:


  • BarbieBobomb
    replied
    Originally posted by Alipan View Post
    You can understand why that leaves a sour taste?
    I get what you're saying, but like I said, there is no way to change the feature set or turn off pro score calculations for certain tables.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alipan
    replied
    Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Not an oversight, it is the exact same for every table. The more tables you play, the higher your pro score. Each of these tables are handled just like all the others - as a full price table that is included in the pro score calculations. Looking it from the other side – if I purchase multiple SLF tables, do I not deserve to include my purchased tables in the pro score calculation? We had to charge for each separate team table, there was just no way around it.
    I have to disagree. Counting the same table several times damages the integrity of the concept.

    Also it hardly seems fair that people have to buy several versions of the same table in order to compete.

    Surely the idea of releasing different teams is that you just pick your favourite? Players shouldnt be at a disadvantage because they didnt buy every single one. You can understand why that leaves a sour taste?

    Leave a comment:


  • BarbieBobomb
    replied
    Originally posted by Alipan View Post
    Disappointing.....PS4 owners better hope Zen dont bring out any more football teams!

    I would still be interested to know if this was intentional or an oversight.

    Hopefully if the latter then lessons can be learnt for the Xbone version.
    Not an oversight, it is the exact same for every table. The more tables you play, the higher your pro score. Each of these tables are handled just like all the others - as a full price table that is included in the pro score calculations. Looking it from the other side – if I purchase multiple SLF tables, do I not deserve to include my purchased tables in the pro score calculation? We had to charge for each separate team table, there was just no way around it.

    Leave a comment:


  • skyway73
    replied
    Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
    They could and they would, if it means that it would please the general fanbase and continue generating cash. Keep in mind, that Zen is a business and they are trying to keep the lights on. They can't just cater to a small few who actually think the Pro Scores are important.

    When they were making the Super Football League table, they knew that a lot of fans would like to play as real teams and they were able to strike a deal with quite a few of them. There's also the point that only Zen Pinball 2 has the Pro-Score system, while Zen Pinball HD (iOS and Andriod) and Pinball FX 2 have a different scoring system. If the only way they could add the skins to ZP2 was to sacrifice the Pro Score then they would. It's better than the alternative, which is not releasing the table (or just the skins) out at all on the PSN. You would get far more complaints from gamers asking why was this table or the skins exclusive to Pinball FX 2 and mobile devices. After all, the core and casual crowd want more tables. Only a select few are going to pay attention to the Pro Score.

    To be perfectly honest, I never look at the Pro Scores. The Pro Score was always easy to inflate by just buying all of the tables and taking advantage of the tables with simple high scoring opportunities. I'm not even counting the Super Football League table skins.

    I keep on asking the question, what about the people that don't have a lot of money and can only buy a few tables? I personally find the trophy data to be more useful. Case and point, I have a friend that's really good at pinball, but he only owns half of the tables. His Pro Score is pretty low, but he has pretty good leaderboard scores on the individual tables that he owns. Plus, he has unlock all of the trophies on those said tables. I find him to be a much better player compared to some that have a really high Pro Scores, but only have about half of the trophies unlocked. He definitely gives me a run for my money during our online games.
    Excellent post shogun, couldn't agree more. In fact, I have been playing Zen Pinball since the first tables on PS3 and have bought every bit of DLC and I've never even bothered to look at the Pro Scores for myself or any of my friends. The High Score Leaderboards and as you say Trophies are my guide as to how well I and others are doing.

    Having said all that I can see why some people might complain but personally it doesn't affect me even slightly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alipan
    replied
    Disappointing.....PS4 owners better hope Zen dont bring out any more football teams!

    I would still be interested to know if this was intentional or an oversight.

    Hopefully if the latter then lessons can be learnt for the Xbone version.

    Leave a comment:


  • BarbieBobomb
    replied
    Hey guys - sorry for the late reply, we've been extremely busy with the release of Heroes Within.

    We will not be adjusting or changing the pro scores in any way, each table has to have the same feature set as every other table and there is no way to change or turn off super score contributions for certain tables. Sorry for any inconvenience.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phobos790
    replied
    Originally posted by shogun00 View Post
    They could and they would, if it means that it would please the general fanbase and continue generating cash. Keep in mind, that Zen is a business and they are trying to keep the lights on. They can't just cater to a small few who actually think the Pro Scores are important.

    When they were making the Super Football League table, they knew that a lot of fans would like to play as real teams and they were able to strike a deal with quite a few of them. There's also the point that only Zen Pinball 2 has the Pro-Score system, while Zen Pinball HD (iOS and Andriod) and Pinball FX 2 have a different scoring system. If the only way they could add the skins to ZP2 was to sacrifice the Pro Score then they would. It's better than the alternative, which is not releasing the table (or just the skins) out at all on the PSN. You would get far more complaints from gamers asking why was this table or the skins exclusive to Pinball FX 2 and mobile devices. After all, the core and casual crowd want more tables. Only a select few are going to pay attention to the Pro Score.

    To be perfectly honest, I never look at the Pro Scores. The Pro Score was always easy to inflate by just buying all of the tables and taking advantage of the tables with simple high scoring opportunities. I'm not even counting the Super Football League table skins.

    I keep on asking the question, what about the people that don't have a lot of money and can only buy a few tables? I personally find the trophy data to be more useful. Case and point, I have a friend that's really good at pinball, but he only owns half of the tables. His Pro Score is pretty low, but he has pretty good leaderboard scores on the individual tables that he owns. Plus, he has unlock all of the trophies on those said tables. I find him to be a much better player compared to some that have a really high Pro Scores, but only have about half of the trophies unlocked. He definitely gives me a run for my money during our online games.
    Excellent post again Shogun. It seems that we're left to discuss the subject amongst ourselves.

    You make valid points however I take a different approach to Pro Scores. The concept and change of scoring is so much better than the Super Score on PB FX2, which I believe just added up all the scores. Which was flawed because one table can yield a billion points and another barely 100,000 or less. The Pro Score ranking system was genius and truly works, ranking your score against the competition. Getting to the top takes true skill and commitment and every table had equal value, until now.

    You're probably right that only a select few will really care about Pro Scores but we are the core fans, many of us owning the platform on multiple systems and owning almost all tables on each. I think that the idea of releasing multiple skins of SLF was a major mistake at $2.99 each and counting each towards Pro Scores. Both bad decisions, alienating core fans is never good no matter what company you are. Then, ignoring said fans here makes it worse. Plus - if we're paying full price, at least give each team it's own leaderboard instead of just one. Now, there's no way to tell which team I've played has the lowest score and needs to be worked on. Lack of foresight all around. In the SLF thread, Barbie said she'd check on that on that and get back to us...still waiting.

    Since I was #17 on Pro Scores on PS4, before the table was released, I felt forced to buy more skins of SLF to compete, but as I said before, the whole system is tainted. I'd rather be in the top 5 on my own without any advantage, and having to buy 7 extra table skins for the chance to be at the top is very unfortunate - both for the $ (i don't mind too much to help support one of my fave game companies) and the ruined scoring system.

    I've said all this before but it's now here in one place, sorry to rant, just a passionate fan.

    Leave a comment:


  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by Metalzoic View Post
    I can't imagine they would do it on purpose if they knew multiple skins would completely break the scoring system.
    They could and they would, if it means that it would please the general fanbase and continue generating cash. Keep in mind, that Zen is a business and they are trying to keep the lights on. They can't just cater to a small few who actually think the Pro Scores are important.

    When they were making the Super Football League table, they knew that a lot of fans would like to play as real teams and they were able to strike a deal with quite a few of them. There's also the point that only Zen Pinball 2 has the Pro-Score system, while Zen Pinball HD (iOS and Andriod) and Pinball FX 2 have a different scoring system. If the only way they could add the skins to ZP2 was to sacrifice the Pro Score then they would. It's better than the alternative, which is not releasing the table (or just the skins) out at all on the PSN. You would get far more complaints from gamers asking why was this table or the skins exclusive to Pinball FX 2 and mobile devices. After all, the core and casual crowd want more tables. Only a select few are going to pay attention to the Pro Score.

    To be perfectly honest, I never look at the Pro Scores. The Pro Score was always easy to inflate by just buying all of the tables and taking advantage of the tables with simple high scoring opportunities. I'm not even counting the Super Football League table skins.

    I keep on asking the question, what about the people that don't have a lot of money and can only buy a few tables? I personally find the trophy data to be more useful. Case and point, I have a friend that's really good at pinball, but he only owns half of the tables. His Pro Score is pretty low, but he has pretty good leaderboard scores on the individual tables that he owns. Plus, he has unlock all of the trophies on those said tables. I find him to be a much better player compared to some that have a really high Pro Scores, but only have about half of the trophies unlocked. He definitely gives me a run for my money during our online games.
    Last edited by shogun00; 05-03-2014, 07:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalzoic
    replied
    Yeah, I see now that there are several topics here about the problem and many posts, but not one acknowledgment from Zen.

    A month and a half and they're still ignoring us. very weird and not good at all.
    I can't imagine they would do it on purpose if they knew multiple skins would completely break the scoring system.
    Regardless I haven't touched the game since it happened.

    Leave a comment:


  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by Metalzoic View Post
    Several of us have posted and asked over and over about this. Is this a glitch they will fix? Did they mean to make it pay-to-win? But the Zen guys and Barbie still haven't answered (or even really responded) the question for some reason.
    Staying silent usually indicates a disappointing answer.

    They probably had to make a sacrifice to get those multiple skins to work on the platform.

    When Zen made ZP2, they probably had never thought that they would have a table with multiple skins. Can they fix this problem? Yes and no! You can pretty much fix anything, but the real question is how much money (time and labor) is it going to take? If the problem is in the very core of the game's architecture, then they will need to overhaul the entire game to fix it. That will cost about the same amount of money as making a brand new game.

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  • Metalzoic
    replied
    Maybe one (or more) of them bought more than 1 of the Super League Football teams?

    This table screws up the Pro Score because each team is worth 1000 points towards your score. Basically this table ruins the fair scoring system Zen had.

    Several of us have posted and asked over and over about this. Is this a glitch they will fix? Did they mean to make it pay-to-win? But the Zen guys and Barbie still haven't answered (or even really responded) the question for some reason.

    Leave a comment:

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