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What's up with the crazy slingshots?

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  • DiscoKing
    replied
    Originally posted by Rafie View Post
    Disco, normally I'm right behind you in earning my trophies early for Zen. Now I'm lagging behind. I love the video you did on Shareplay. I wish I could do that on command. Unfortunately it will be by luck. Hehehe Oh and MKX has really been grabbing my attention lately.
    I'm getting mkx. Maybe we can get a few fights in when I get it.

    Leave a comment:


  • skyway73
    replied
    Start a multiball and go for end of flipper shots, I got the trophy within 5 mins of my 1st go by doing this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rafie
    replied
    Originally posted by DiscoKing View Post
    Oh the irony...

    Now you need the active slings to be your friend and send your ball down the outlanes for the new avengers ultron trophy

    Zen developers : "what?! You don't like the more active slings!? Well, now you're going to pray for them to get this new trophy! Now how much do you want active slings"

    Players: "Man, I can't get the slings to send my ball down the outlanes!"
    Disco, normally I'm right behind you in earning my trophies early for Zen. Now I'm lagging behind. I love the video you did on Shareplay. I wish I could do that on command. Unfortunately it will be by luck. Hehehe Oh and MKX has really been grabbing my attention lately.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eternal21
    replied
    Originally posted by DiscoKing View Post
    Oh the irony...

    Now you need the active slings to be your friend and send your ball down the outlanes for the new avengers ultron trophy

    Zen developers : "what?! You don't like the more active slings!? Well, now you're going to pray for them to get this new trophy! Now how much do you want active slings"

    Players: "Man, I can't get the slings to send my ball down the outlanes!"
    Tell me about it. I could earn that trophy EVERY game on Deadpool, without even trying. One of out three times when the ball goes down the right outlane, it gets spit out, bounces around the slingshots and goes directly into the left one.

    4dQkPbi.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • DiscoKing
    replied
    Oh the irony...

    Now you need the active slings to be your friend and send your ball down the outlanes for the new avengers ultron trophy

    Zen developers : "what?! You don't like the more active slings!? Well, now you're going to pray for them to get this new trophy! Now how much do you want active slings"

    Players: "Man, I can't get the slings to send my ball down the outlanes!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Metalzoic
    replied
    Originally posted by skyway73 View Post
    Wow, this really is a hot topic! Nice to see some passionate responses, even if I disagree with most of them

    I'll try and keep my views short... Firstly, I love the strong slings. real pins have them and I feel they add to the nerve-jangling excitement. And yes, I know the Zen tables are just a video game not even a simulation but I think they have enough other features which would never be possible on a real machine. We all want it to at least feel like pinball don't we?

    With this in mind I think an increasing difficulty after completing Wizard modes dosn't feel right to me. Sure, make modes harder to start with shortened timers etc. but don't adjust the physical features of the table.

    My answer would be this: keep the powerful slings but to avoid frustrating outlane drains how about narrowing the gap there? Make it obviously still possible to drain but give us players a chance to nudge and save a ball bouncing round there. I think Return of the Jedi had the closest idea to this, I loved the ball bouncing round there and giving a quick shake or nudge to 'persuade' the ball out. To be clear, I'm talking about before the ball actually travels down the outlane and is rattling round behind the slings.

    Oh, and I HATE marathon tables. I want a test of reflexes and split second strategical decision making, not a dull endurance test of stamina. I loved Paranormal but cannot face playing it for obvious reasons, sadly.
    Pretty much exactly my thoughts. I love the better slings, I wish they could go back and up the sling power on all the older tables. I would actually buy that as DLC. I'm not interested in having the outlanes become easier, but I like that idea much more than split difficulty levels. Don't like the idea of that at all. As for marathon games I'd say the longer the average play time a table has the less interesting or fun it is to play.

    When they feel watered down they lose some character that makes pinball so great. I want awesome highs and lows, victories, saves and horrible defeats... rather than playing it safe so it isn't to difficult. That just makes it dull in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • skyway73
    replied
    Wow, this really is a hot topic! Nice to see some passionate responses, even if I disagree with most of them

    I'll try and keep my views short... Firstly, I love the strong slings. real pins have them and I feel they add to the nerve-jangling excitement. And yes, I know the Zen tables are just a video game not even a simulation but I think they have enough other features which would never be possible on a real machine. We all want it to at least feel like pinball don't we?

    With this in mind I think an increasing difficulty after completing Wizard modes dosn't feel right to me. Sure, make modes harder to start with shortened timers etc. but don't adjust the physical features of the table.

    My answer would be this: keep the powerful slings but to avoid frustrating outlane drains how about narrowing the gap there? Make it obviously still possible to drain but give us players a chance to nudge and save a ball bouncing round there. I think Return of the Jedi had the closest idea to this, I loved the ball bouncing round there and giving a quick shake or nudge to 'persuade' the ball out. To be clear, I'm talking about before the ball actually travels down the outlane and is rattling round behind the slings.

    Oh, and I HATE marathon tables. I want a test of reflexes and split second strategical decision making, not a dull endurance test of stamina. I loved Paranormal but cannot face playing it for obvious reasons, sadly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rafie
    replied
    Ahhh I see that more people disagree with having those crazy slingshots. I was the first one to bring it up on another thread. Glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. Unpredictable slingshots keeps me from playing tables like Deadpool and such. However, I do like some of the suggestions I've been hearing. Maybe we can somehow implement a mode that can satisfy both folks that want to play casually and those who want more of a challenge. Not that those who don't want more of a challenge are novice players like someone said above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mammouth
    replied
    Table with spam mode to make THE high score aren't many. Except V12 where you need to spam ramps to upgrade parts and go to the "wizard mode", if we can call it like that.
    Sometimes, spamming a mode is an easy way to make a good score but it's not the best way to make a record. I will take World War Hulk for exemple : at the beginning, i only spamed the STRENGHT multiball but it was too random to be sure to make a good score, because you need to increase the jackpot reward each time and on multiball, you have less control on all your balls and the kickbacks can go off a lot of time. After that, i only go for the wizard mode and it was more rewarding because i have more control on what i was doing.
    So, each table can be a spamming table because it will be very easy to do that instead of doing the wizard mode but less than 30% of tables are more rewarding with a spamming tool. Spamming the multiball on ElDorado can be good when you begin and don't know all the things, but will never compete with the wizard reward.

    Leave a comment:


  • surf1der
    replied
    Well like you said Mammouth, people already spam modes to get high scores WITHOUT strong slingshots. Whether you have strong or weak slingshots is not going to change that. That is a completely separate issue that has to do with balance issues in scoring. It's a difficult thing to balance. Real pinball machines have this issue as well where it makes more sense to spam certain modes than try to complete all of them. If your goal as a designer is to maximize the reward for completing all the main modes, then there are ways to mitigate the abuse of spamming modes like progressively increasing the number of shots required to start a multiball mode, making sure that the bulk of points for a main mode is given for completing a mode so that you are not incentivized to purposely fail and repeat a mode, successfully completed modes cannot be restarted, wizard modes should always be the highest scoring mode, etc.

    @ctx, I like the idea of a hard mode. I have already suggested it as a feature I would like to see included in the next title update for the game (FX3, ZP3). A PAPA-style tournament mode where extra balls are turned off, randomness like random rewards are no longer random and are instead in a fixed order, etc. It would be great if we can have a separate "hard" mode leaderboard but I'm not sure Zen wants to go down that route. But it would be great to at least have that option. I suppose you could manually adjust a lot of the settings in the operator's menu but it would be nice to have just a dedicated tournament-style mode that makes all the adjustments for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mammouth
    replied
    WOW ! I have seen things that must not be done.

    First of all, i think that increasing the power of the slingshots after each wizard mode is a BIG MISTAKE that must NOT be made ! The only thing that i will do is spamming missions or multiball to avoid the wizard mode and lose your ball unfairly after that. I will score a better record without having the unfair slingshot because i will last for 6 hours, so i will avoid the wizard mode if i will last 5 minutes with unfair slingshots. It will be another table with a spamming tool and you can avoid all the others things. That will be the same thing we actually do with Thor (spam ramps to increase SERPENT score and when it's high, play mission "vs Loki" and failed it purposely after gaining 13x the SERPENT score, repeat infinitely).

    I think the slingshots must return from what they were. If the slingshots are too strong and are tune to avoid the ball draining in he outlanes, the ball will go in the inlane => so, it's a reward ! From what they were, the ball usually do 3-5 bounces, which is a clearly loss of time in timed missions.

    Some say about choosing difficulty at the beginning. Even if my score is divided by 10, i will go with the slingshots which don't put your balls on the outlanes, because i know i will last more than 10 times longer without them.

    Seriously, i try to find a way to satisfy evryone but i don't find it. The only thing i can say is that a table is fun (for me) when the best way to do a high score is spamming the wizard mode, even if it's a marathon game).

    Leave a comment:


  • ctx
    replied
    Personally I really like the idea of difficulty settings and there are some cool ideas in here! But I would really like to see something very simple:

    1) Normal mode as it is now, or maybe somewhat reduce sling strength in comparison to some tables as per the feedback in here. Whatever is good for the average player.
    2) Hard mode with no extra balls, no lightable kickbacks/saves (start of ball saver, start of multi saver, etc is ok), leveling set to 7.5ish, perhaps generally bouncier physics/more active slings. I don't think reduced timers are needed, it will be hard enough already with these settings.

    Instead of trying to force them into comparable scoring, I'd like to see separate leaderboards. But, I know that may not be possible. So my idea is, if they have to share the same leaderboard, just don't use the ones digit for regular points, and add 5 to the hard mode score. So it can all be on the same leaderboard, and people who are interested in it will know that scores ending in 5 are the hard mode scores. Maybe the in-game interface can reflect this, too. Anyway something along these lines can easily distinguish between hard/regular mode.

    I really like the idea of selectable difficulty with the Ultron table, and I look forward to trying it, but I think the best thing would be to get rid of the extra balls and lightable kickbacks/saves. Those things are great for casual players, but for intermediate and advanced players, they really turn the games into a grind IMO.

    In lieu of all that I'd really just like to see op menu settings for disabling extra balls and lightable kickbacks/saves.

    Leave a comment:


  • shogun00
    replied
    Originally posted by Trynyty View Post
    Where? WHERE!?!?!? ZOMG I MUST KNOW!!!
    Under the control settings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trynyty
    replied
    Originally posted by skyway73 View Post
    Save your $100 my friend, the option is already there in the settings for PS4 And PS3 for that matter, I always use this to nudge the table and find it is indeed perfect, probably the best use of the motion controls I've found for any game. Once you get used to it, you can aim nudges and even use slight nudges that don't activate the TILT warning - handy

    Where? WHERE!?!?!? ZOMG I MUST KNOW!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • skyway73
    replied
    Originally posted by Trynyty View Post

    A GREAT nudge idea would be to allow the controller to be shaken in the direction that you want the nudge. I cannot begin to describe the epic gyrations that we all perform as we try to get the ball nudged. All that you hear from us is, "NononononNoNoNoNONONONOG__DAMMIT" as we shake, rattle, and roll to get that thing nudged like the pros.

    Just a suggestion. Heck, I'd pay $100 in the next 24 hours just to have this tweak.
    Save your $100 my friend, the option is already there in the settings for PS4 And PS3 for that matter, I always use this to nudge the table and find it is indeed perfect, probably the best use of the motion controls I've found for any game. Once you get used to it, you can aim nudges and even use slight nudges that don't activate the TILT warning - handy

    Leave a comment:

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