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  • #31
    Originally posted by deep View Post
    Hey mythology lovers,
    I would love to hear what are you expect from a table based on greek mythology. Don't be shy and share your ideas, even if it isn't connected strictly to the theme. Any feature ideas are welcome!
    I say don't make it an original. Do a Zen version of Wrath of Olympus
    https://vimeo.com/129359170

    Make it cross promotional. Maybe they can get some money out of it to help them get this table built and maybe you guys will pick up a bunch of new customers from pinside of people that are dying for it to get made.


    Also I'm guessing some of the news in the first post is about you guys possibly partnering with Stern? If you're looking at making sim tables then start with WOOLY!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Metalzoic View Post
      Also I'm guessing some of the news in the first post is about you guys possibly partnering with Stern? If you're looking at making sim tables then start with WOOLY!
      What makes you think so?
      Also I really wouldn't want Zen to put actual tables in their game. The real tables were made with real physics in mind while Zen is completely different from that and as a result a real table simply wouldn't work at all in Zen Pinball. Maybe it would but I can see the "That's not how it's supposed to be. Pinball Arcade did it so much better" jerks coming out flaming everything. Zen could only lose if they'd put real tables in their games.

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      • #33
        No E3 News from Zen???

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Beliskner View Post
          What makes you think so?
          Also I really wouldn't want Zen to put actual tables in their game. The real tables were made with real physics in mind while Zen is completely different from that and as a result a real table simply wouldn't work at all in Zen Pinball. Maybe it would but I can see the "That's not how it's supposed to be. Pinball Arcade did it so much better" jerks coming out flaming everything. Zen could only lose if they'd put real tables in their games.
          Maybe because of this https://twitter.com/zen_studios/stat...92149700792320

          Originally posted by Retrogammer1977SB View Post
          No E3 News from Zen???
          Nope - nothing to speak of publicly, we're doing more behind the scenes type of stuff at E3 this year

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
            Stern is awesome. In fact all companies that still make machines are. I still stand by it though: I don't want to see real machines in Zen Pinball. If you do want to make them just make a seperate game for those

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Beliskner View Post
              Stern is awesome. In fact all companies that still make machines are. I still stand by it though: I don't want to see real machines in Zen Pinball. If you do want to make them just make a seperate game for those
              Why not?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
                Why not?
                Yeah why not? I don't care if they are part of the zen pinball collection or standalone - just bring them please!!!!

                I know this is all pre- speculation - but my hopes are definitely up!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
                  Why not?
                  Like I said in a previous post: I highly doubt Zen physics could work on real tables. At least not without making changes to the table and maybe rerwriting the ROM of the original machines from scratch. That's one of the problems I have with The Pinball Arcade. They copied the ROMs of the original tables 1-to-1 into their game but sometimes when the physics or the modeling of the table is just slightly of some shots became nearly impossible to make or the whole table became even more unfair or waaaaay easier than in real life. I don't know if you played it but I'm not exaggerating when I say that some tables are complete disasters that aren't fun whatsoever.
                  Here's what I think would be best if you'd do real tables:
                  1. Take a real table and make it your own. Basically remodeling everything so it fits the classic Zen style and physics and it feels like I'm still playing Zen Pinball.
                  2. Take a real table and try to do a simulation. Again I've played both Zen Pinball and Pinball Arcade as well as several other Pinball games. They're all drastically different and require a completely different skill- and mindset. They are as different as Gran Turismo and Mario Kart are and you wouldn#t mix those two together would you?

                  I'm playing Zen Pinball because of three things: Control, flow and the amazing creativity that you put into the table design. Real Pinball tables aren't made so the player can control the ball and make amazing combo shots. Even the best Pinball players in the world struggle on the real machines with both of these things. And as far as creativity goes: Well the whole entire creativity lies with the people who design the actual machine and not the company who puts it in the game. Why would you want to limit yourself like that? I'd like to remind you of the awesomeness that is the Infinity Gauntlet table. All the crazy stuff that is going on with the upside down table, reversed flippers etc. That was one of the most amazing things I ever played in my life. Those tables that just don't care about the laws of nature are so much more exciting to play. I'd pick one of those any day over a table where my only thought the entire time is: "Oh my god table please don't cheat on me this shot."

                  Maybe this post feels overly negative to some. I'm just really skeptical and not overly excited like some other people when they hear "real tables" for some reason. The fact that these tables exist in real life don't make them better and putting them in a game certainly doesn't either. I was always honest when I praised the work of Zen Studios and also stated my opinion on the tables I didn't like as much. The concerns I expressed here are no exception and I hope everyone can understand the points I made in this post

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Beliskner View Post
                    Like I said in a previous post: I highly doubt Zen physics could work on real tables. At least not without making changes to the table and maybe rerwriting the ROM of the original machines from scratch. That's one of the problems I have with The Pinball Arcade. They copied the ROMs of the original tables 1-to-1 into their game but sometimes when the physics or the modeling of the table is just slightly of some shots became nearly impossible to make or the whole table became even more unfair or waaaaay easier than in real life. I don't know if you played it but I'm not exaggerating when I say that some tables are complete disasters that aren't fun whatsoever.
                    Here's what I think would be best if you'd do real tables:
                    1. Take a real table and make it your own. Basically remodeling everything so it fits the classic Zen style and physics and it feels like I'm still playing Zen Pinball.
                    2. Take a real table and try to do a simulation. Again I've played both Zen Pinball and Pinball Arcade as well as several other Pinball games. They're all drastically different and require a completely different skill- and mindset. They are as different as Gran Turismo and Mario Kart are and you wouldn#t mix those two together would you?
                    I guess I don't understand why you would think they couldn't simply change their physics to properly reflect a real table. Why do you automatically think they would mix them together? Zen has already shown they create awesome original tables so why would you think they wouldn't be good at re-creating the real thing?

                    We already know their quality control and presentation are far better than the other guys. I don't doubt their physics would probably show the same polish.

                    Anyway, here's more. Originally posted by Shutyertrap

                    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...53368360379244

                    Now check out the comments, specifically this exchange...

                    Mike Haakenson If somehow a deal could be made for a company like zen to make digital versions of the new games so you could try them out I think it would increase interest in buying a new in box for some people.
                    Like · Reply · 12 hours ago

                    Stern Pinball ........
                    Like · 7 hours ago

                    Mike Haakenson This blank response excites me!
                    Like · 7 hours ago

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Metalzoic View Post
                      I guess I don't understand why you would think they couldn't simply change their physics to properly reflect a real table. Why do you automatically think they would mix them together? Zen has already shown they create awesome original tables so why would you think they wouldn't be good at re-creating the real thing?

                      We already know their quality control and presentation are far better than the other guys. I don't doubt their physics would probably show the same polish.
                      Where díd I say any of that? Of course Zen could change their physics to be more realistic (whatever that means nowadays). See option number 2 I wrote down.
                      I expressed in my post how physics in Pinball games make them completely different which is why I think real physics don't belong in a Zen Pinball that also features the physics we are used to from that game.
                      I also never said anywhere that Zen wouldn't be good at recreating the real thing. I just said that real tables aren't necessarily better than digital-only tables. I know how good Zen is at developing their stuff but keep in mind that there is a lot of very deep thought in the real tables as far as positioning of targets, ramps etc. goes so that the table is actually playable. Zen physics and design however are more forgiving and the design doesn't have to be perfect to work really well still. With a real table though if there's just a slight mishap with anything it can ruin the entire experience no matter how good the rest of the table is.

                      I do realise that tastes are different and if some people want real tables I can understand that. It's just not my cup of tea when they're in video games because of the reasons I mentioned.

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