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ROME Table - 10M Romulus ??

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Vincent View Post
    Honestly you can't compare Romulus with Justice, which is easy to trigger. I understand the spamming issue but I think 10M is as ridiculous as 100M just the other way around, just start south garrison and spam scales hole and you get 10M ; achieving Romulus is amazingly hard, the reward needs to be proportionate. It's no wonder the original designer made it so rewarding.
    I disagree. Romulus is challenging to win, not amazingly hard. I'm pretty sure every score in the top ten on Zen Pinball 2 was achieved almost entirely from Romulus (my fifth place was). Romulus is also very easy to trigger, seven shots to a sinkhole that the ball magically finds its way to, then the right ramp. Don't forget you score a million for triggering the mode, plus a million for each captive ball hit. Even without scoring the Romulus jackpot, you can score about five million with little effort, plus it's a safe points scoring alternative as having a second ball is like having a second life. The original mode design almost broke the table, it was that lopsided. I understand that you'd like the countdown to start somewhere between the original 100 million & the current figure, but I personally like it where it's set.

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    • #47
      If it ain't broke.... Rome is a true pinball players table, the reward isn't always the size of the score. We'll not for me anyway, you've got all the Star Wars tables to ramp up into the billions if that's what takes your fancy. Rome wasn't built in a day after all..

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      • #48
        This is also one of my favorite tables. I do appreciate Zen tweaking these classic tables between the release of fx2 and fx3. I think it may be a bit moot to single this one thing out, because it is still an even playing field. The best Rome players in fx2 will still likely be the best in the new fx3 leaderboards. The original designs for FX2 are legendary, and I am so glad they ported them to fx3 at no charge. It's actually amazing. If somewhere along the line, some simple tweaks were applied in the new release, well, so be it. I still love Rome as much on fx3 as I did before, and as with all tables, there is alot of satisfaction just creeping your way up the leaderboards. Changing a point value to a specific mission really seems minor to me, as much as I do get Vincent's point.

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        • #49
          Well written Tutti. I'm glad they lowered down the Romulus jackpot. It isn't that hard to achieve anyway.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by TuttiDeLeon View Post
            I disagree. Romulus is challenging to win, not amazingly hard. I'm pretty sure every score in the top ten on Zen Pinball 2 was achieved almost entirely from Romulus (my fifth place was).
            Originally posted by bosstime View Post
            Well written Tutti. I'm glad they lowered down the Romulus jackpot. It isn't that hard to achieve anyway.
            This is probably because you are skilled players. I was sucessful at Romulus a few times, but generally too slow, so when I could get like 80M after some crazy efforts, I used to consider it to be a fair reward. From my perspective the final shot is very hard per se, more than the initial skillshot because the ball is not as slow, and all the more so as we are in a multiball mode.

            People being able to spam Romulus, I'm sorry to say that, are actually good players, good as I will never be. I understand that in the eyes of truly excellent players as my interlocutors surely are, this is regarded as a cheap way of winning. I can conceive this, although the day I could pride myself with being good enough to be able to declare "spamming Romulus is cheap", or even to use the expression "to spam Romulus", it would be for me so great an accomplishment as to make me decide I could stop playing pinball, telling myself I wouldn't get any better - but this day won't happen, since I'm but an occasional player. So guys, here is the actual reason why we do not agree with each other : we are just not living in the same world. The highest scores I achieved -humbly something like 160M- were definitely not by spamming Romulus (because I'm just not capable of doing that), but by keeping my balls long enough to get to Wizard mode and by earning hich jackpots through multiball modes such as Western Garrison, with a few extra balls helping as well.

            I loved this table in its original design, because I used to find it quite enjoyable to simultaneously pursue those 2 purposes in a parallel way, trying to get all missions lit - which I personally find easier, and which triggers a wizard mode that is incredibly hi-scoring, for that matter - and at the same time trying to achieve Romulus. I refuse to recognize any hierarchical order some may claim there might exist between those two objectives, which are for me equally legitimate, and I have to say I'm not in any way intimidated by those high inquisitors we sometimes stumble upon, who allow themselves to arbitrarily and peremptorily assert that the "true way of scoring" for any "honest" pinball player shall be to complete the missions (and I really like to focus on them, but this is not to say that other modes should be regarded as secondary and shouldn't be as rewarding, or even more). After all, Pinball is all about freedom to choose between many paths, no one should decree that some of them are nobler than others. This is up to the designer - and the Romulus system, as opposed to many mistakes that were corrected in PFX3, was not an accidental flaw, it was a conscious choice.

            I liked it the way it used to be, and as ready to compromise as I might get after hearing you (because some people here have been developing interesting arguments, I shall admit), I still think 10M is not the right choice, just because it's a poor reward for the average player. I know this might be the case for other modes on other tables as well, but then again, this one was specifically created with the designer having in mind this would be very challenging and rewarding, both being correlated, whence the name "Romulus", of course evocating the most important figure in the myth of the foundation as related in Tite-Live's Ab urbe condita, but also conveying in some way the idea of ultimate power, if we take into consideration the fact that the first king became a god of Rome after he died and started to be worshipped under the name Quirinus. The idea that the Romulus mode is somehow linked to divinity is further corroborated by the fact that it is triggered by sending the ball right to the Olympus (I almost said "heaven", but I won't, since it's from a germanic root), i.e. where you get the "bless" temporary multiplicator. So I have nothing against the idea of tuning the mode, but if we could just do it without betraying the original spirit, this would be great.
            Last edited by Vincent; 05-30-2019, 07:09 PM.

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            • #51
              I'm sorry but since I couldn't get any private answers last times I tried to know what's happening, I'm just thinking since hi-scores have just been, for mysterious reasons, reset, then it might be the right time to remind the team of this compromise that was found by Deep more than one year and a half ago (come on guys...), who was, at the time, very sensible in finding a middle ground. By the way, new physics (Williams Pinball 4) are amazingly realistic (juste like the real pinball). Not much time to play, but I keep buying packs because people at Zen are so great.
              Last edited by Vincent; 05-30-2019, 07:10 PM.

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              • #52
                Making a change that involves the deletion of scores does not make sense, you have split my soul, as when just when I was completing the Pinball FX2 tables you deleted all the scores and had to start from scratch.

                I had the record at this table with 2.074M.

                With the same previous system, I do not think I would get a game like that again, I would make 900M / 1200M.

                With the new scoring system I will do 500M / 900M.

                I do not feel like playing this table again that requires weeks to master it and I did it first in Zen Pinball, twice in FX2 for the deletion and now again in FX3 twice for another deletion.

                What you have done has no name, the disappointment is enormous.

                If a change involves deleting scores, do not do it.

                The table is the same for everyone, with its advantages and shortcomings, you did not have to change anything, it takes years and if you modify it implies deletion of scores much less.

                THAT IS NOT DONE !!!!

                --------------------------------

                Hacer un cambio que implique el borrado de las puntuaciones no tiene sentido, me habéis partido el alma, como cuando justo cuando estaba completando las mesas de Pinball FX2 borrasteís todas las puntuaciones y hubo que comenzar desde cero.

                Yo tenía el record en esta mesa con 2.074M.

                Con el mismo sistema anterior, no creo que me saliera una partida como esa de nuevo, haría 900M / 1200M.

                Con el nuevo sistema de puntuación haré 500M / 900M.

                No tengo ganas de volver a jugar esta mesa que requiere semanas para dominarla y ya lo hice primero en Zen Pinball, dos veces en FX2 por el borrado y ahora ¿de nuevo 2 veces en FX3 por otro borrado?.

                Lo que habéis hecho no tiene nombre, la decepción es enorme.

                Si un cambio implica borrar puntuaciones, no lo hagaís.

                La mesa está igual para todos, con sus ventajas y defectos, no había que modificarle nada, lleva así años y si modificarlo implica borrado de puntuaciones mucho menos.

                ESO NO SE HACE!!!!

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                • #53
                  Hi guys,

                  I don't know of any score reset, when did you experience this? I checked out the scores and we have a lot of scores there (19 thousand +) which I don't think would accumulate in 2 days.

                  Victor, can I ask when did you take the screenshot you shared here?

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                  • #54
                    11/11/2017 when i play this table.

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