Handheld Frame Rates on Switch

[hunter328]

Would it be possible to increase the frame rate in handheld mode or are you guys already using all the consoles power that you can?
I was hoping FX3 on Switch would be my replacement for ZP2 on Vita but I’m having trouble playing with the slower frame rate. It makes keeping track of the ball much harder.
Thanks!

[Psy-Q]

I'm using my weird necro powers to add a vote to this. Handheld mode seems choppy even compared to a 3 or 4 year old Android phone

[bookw]

I agree. Huge disappointment they couldn't get 60 fps, like Stern Pinball and the eventual Pinball Arcade.

Every other device in the world (80%+ which are slower than the Switch) can run this game (well FX2 anyway) at 60fps. The flagship handheld from Nintendo comes out and they expect us to be happy with 30 fps? In a pinball game which needs twitch reflexes?

C'mon now. Get this framerate patch out so I can support the game. Haven't bought a single thing since day 1 after I got the initial table bundle. Really disappointed with undocked performance.

[hajdu]

Hey,
we looked into this request and for the 60 fps we have to build up every table from the bits and right now the company doesn't have enough resource to create this.
It's not off the table but we are in a middle of a few big projects and the main focus is on them.

[CrazyCoder]

Also disappointed with the frame rate, on some tables it's completely unplayable.

The Switch runs DOOM in 30fps. Pinball shouldn't be that intense. I hope the devs can find time to optimize the engine a bit. Or at least add a lower resolution and effects mode, but with 60fps. Please!

[bookw]

Hey,
we looked into this request and for the 60 fps we have to build up every table from the bits and right now the company doesn't have enough resource to create this.
It's not off the table but we are in a middle of a few big projects and the main focus is on them.

Thanks for the reply. I know it came across harshly worded, but I do find it pretty horrible. I was super excited about the game coming to a portable platform - ready to buy every table that is released, and I know the Switch can handle it - the Wii U ran it at 60fps and the Switch undocked is faster than the Wii U, I guess the engine is just not optimized properly enough. We can list a dozen games that are more complex and run at 60fps, but whatever.

Anyway, I think they should just find a way and make it an option in the game's options (performance or visuals). Whether that's dropping the undocked resolution to half what it is now, or removing advanced lighting effects or whatever, get a way to have the game at 60 fps undocked, no matter how ugly it looks, people who want 60fps will be happy, especially if it's an option, then you keep everyone happy - visuals or performance.

The Switch has multiple speeds undocked - hopefully it's using the fastest one? Imagine if Mario Bros on the NES randomly dropped frames and ran choppy? How would you time your jumps if right before you go to hit the button the game hiccups and then all of a sudden you're falling down a pit? That's what it's like playing this game undocked. It just doesn't work, and for the only portable system running FX3, it's sad to see it perform so badly.

[Brianvgplayer]

Hey,
we looked into this request and for the 60 fps we have to build up every table from the bits and right now the company doesn't have enough resource to create this.
It's not off the table but we are in a middle of a few big projects and the main focus is on them.

That's a bit disappointing. Too bad getting the tables to run smooth in handheld mode on Switch, one of the selling points of the Switch version, wasn't a priority from the get go. I understand there are other projects, but it's disappointing that one of Zen's big games may never run properly in handheld mode on Switch.

[Tech101]

That's a bit disappointing. Too bad getting the tables to run smooth in handheld mode on Switch, one of the selling points of the Switch version, wasn't a priority from the get go. I understand there are other projects, but it's disappointing that one of Zen's big games may never run properly in handheld mode on Switch.

Totally agree. It's bad enough Nintendo seems to always be treated as second rate by Zen but they do a lot of things right and also a lot of things wrong and that's across all platforms.

I love them and will continue to support them because of my addiction but I've seen a lot of people saying they are not buying anymore tables and some are just out right deleting FX3 from their systems. Yes they have to weigh the costs and it doesn't seem there is enough people buying tables from the Nintendo side to make this happen.

If this was Sony or Xbox we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[CrazyCoder]

See the discussion of this on Reddit and the official response from Zen: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwi...tch_cancelled/

[Layth]

I must say that’s very disappointing and wish the developers prioritized 60 fps from the get go. I was waiting for a patch before I bought tables, and sadly it looks like I won’t be purchasing any based on this info.

[steven120566]

Totally agree. It's bad enough Nintendo seems to always be treated as second rate by Zen but they do a lot of things right and also a lot of things wrong and that's across all platforms.

I love them and will continue to support them because of my addiction but I've seen a lot of people saying they are not buying anymore tables and some are just out right deleting FX3 from their systems. Yes they have to weigh the costs and it doesn't seem there is enough people buying tables from the Nintendo side to make this happen.

If this was Sony or Xbox we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Tech is absolutely right. The Wii U version of FX2 was actually was "just about" perfect (except a never fixed bug resulting in many tries often needed to connect to the score servers), but did get second class treatment. Stopped getting tables way before the other sytems did in the same generation.

I have been watching the switch and have seen it surpass the Wii U in number. I have gone Microsoft because of my own addiction to this game and community, and own the xbox one. May start playing on Steam again as well when I get a better PC.

But I digress. Switch owners do have a legitimate gripe here, considering many came from the Wii U and bought all in on that system, and seem to want to buy all in again on Switch. Even though I don't own one, I would like to see this fixed.

At least the game does run well docked, right? So in that regard you guys should be getting the same experience I do, right? I know that's not the point, but just trying to be optimistic.

[Tech101]

Tech is absolutely right. The Wii U version of FX2 was actually was "just about" perfect (except a never fixed bug resulting in many tries often needed to connect to the score servers), but did get second class treatment. Stopped getting tables way before the other sytems did in the same generation.

I have been watching the switch and have seen it surpass the Wii U in number. I have gone Microsoft because of my own addiction to this game and community, and own the xbox one. May start playing on Steam again as well when I get a better PC.

But I digress. Switch owners do have a legitimate gripe here, considering many came from the Wii U and bought all in on that system, and seem to want to buy all in again on Switch. Even though I don't own one, I would like to see this fixed.

At least the game does run well docked, right? So in that regard you guys should be getting the same experience I do, right? I know that's not the point, but just trying to be optimistic.

Yes, the game runs great docked. I'll use handheld to try out tables and play around with the different abilities but when it comes to posting those good scores only docked will get me there. I have picked up a number one with the combination of both docked and handheld though so it's not a total loss.

Sad thing is though it doesn't run much better then the 3ds version in handheld mode. Looks better yes but looks should be second to frame rate for a game like this.

[bookw]

Yes, the game runs great docked. I'll use handheld to try out tables and play around with the different abilities but when it comes to posting those good scores only docked will get me there. I have picked up a number one with the combination of both docked and handheld though so it's not a total loss.

Sad thing is though it doesn't run much better then the 3ds version in handheld mode. Looks better yes but looks should be second to frame rate for a game like this.

It runs great docked... at 720p. Which is a shame as well, given Zen pinball on Wii U ran at 1080p, and 60fps. And FarSight's pinball games run at 1080p and 60fps on the Switch, so I really wish they put a bigger priority on having 1080p60 docked and 720p60 undocked.

I'd actually prefer 360p60 undocked than 720p30, wish we had an option to drop the resolution or lighting or anything. Put the mobile version for all I care and run that undocked, if that means playing at 60fps. Or just optimize the engine, oh well. Maybe FX4 on the Switch 2 will let us play these tables in a portable at a good framerate.

[hunter328]

Thanks for the reply. I know it came across harshly worded, but I do find it pretty horrible. I was super excited about the game coming to a portable platform - ready to buy every table that is released, and I know the Switch can handle it - the Wii U ran it at 60fps and the Switch undocked is faster than the Wii U, I guess the engine is just not optimized properly enough. We can list a dozen games that are more complex and run at 60fps, but whatever.

Anyway, I think they should just find a way and make it an option in the game's options (performance or visuals). Whether that's dropping the undocked resolution to half what it is now, or removing advanced lighting effects or whatever, get a way to have the game at 60 fps undocked, no matter how ugly it looks, people who want 60fps will be happy, especially if it's an option, then you keep everyone happy - visuals or performance.

The Switch has multiple speeds undocked - hopefully it's using the fastest one? Imagine if Mario Bros on the NES randomly dropped frames and ran choppy? How would you time your jumps if right before you go to hit the button the game hiccups and then all of a sudden you're falling down a pit? That's what it's like playing this game undocked. It just doesn't work, and for the only portable system running FX3, it's sad to see it perform so badly.

Don’t forget though that the Wii U was running Zen Pinball 2 (or PBFX2, not sure what it was called there) and the Switch is running PBFX3, which is a different game with improvements in multiple areas. So the fact the Wii U could run the old game doesn’t really mean the Switch should be able to run the new one. I have a Vita and they stopped support for that with PBFX3 because it wouldn’t have run it even though ZP2 ran fine on it.
I’m guessing the new tables are all built with the new FX3 engine, or whatever you’d call it, otherwise they could still have released them for ZP2. Its too bad they can’t easily backwards port the new tables to the old game. Not only could I then get them on Vita but then they could just let the Switch stay with the old game which it could probably run fine and still get new tables for it.

[bookw]

Don’t forget though that the Wii U was running Zen Pinball 2 (or PBFX2, not sure what it was called there) and the Switch is running PBFX3, which is a different game with improvements in multiple areas. So the fact the Wii U could run the old game doesn’t really mean the Switch should be able to run the new one. I have a Vita and they stopped support for that with PBFX3 because it wouldn’t have run it even though ZP2 ran fine on it.
I’m guessing the new tables are all built with the new FX3 engine, or whatever you’d call it, otherwise they could still have released them for ZP2. Its too bad they can’t easily backwards port the new tables to the old game. Not only could I then get them on Vita but then they could just let the Switch stay with the old game which it could probably run fine and still get new tables for it.

They release all the new tables on mobile, and they run 60fps on hardware much weaker than the Switch. Basically every version of the game they've ever released was 60fps, until the undocked Switch release. I really don't think they should bother with making pinball games at 30fps at all, better to just not do it, the genre relies on making precise actions at exactly the right time, and it becomes a huge disadvantage when you have been playing for 45 minutes or even hours and hours without error then the game hiccups or drops a frame right before you line up your shot and you miss and lose your game. I guess for people who only use the system docked it's fine, but still I think too many compromises were made, and would have been happier with the older engine the mobile platform uses, it would mean 60fps undocked, and 1080p with 60fps docked.

Again, Farsight has shown the Switch is capable of running their pinball engine at 60fps undocked and 1080p docked, so I don't think it is a limitation of the Switch, so much as the engine is just not optimized for the hardware properly. Priority one should always be maintaining a solid 60fps at all times for any pinball game.