What do you think after playing the new physics tables and coming back to Zen?

[zaphod77]

I'd be happy to test as well.

[Vincent]

Add it as a beta feature and we'll test it for you.We're cheap labor anyway

I vote for it... and please include me among the beta-testers this time...

[MultiForce]

That would be pretty fun to see how our originals and older tables would fare with the Deep Engine.

Our tables, while having real machines in mind are somewhat differently designed (flipper angle or the size of the drain for example) and it's curious if some shots would be makeable the same way etc.

It is a good idea nonetheless, and it would be great to experiment with it.

We'll see when or if this would become reality, but we are very glad that you like the new system.

Add it as a beta feature and we'll test it for you.We're cheap labor anyway

[McLovin]

That would be pretty fun to see how our originals and older tables would fare with the Deep Engine.

Our tables, while having real machines in mind are somewhat differently designed (flipper angle or the size of the drain for example) and it's curious if some shots would be makeable the same way etc.

It is a good idea nonetheless, and it would be great to experiment with it.

We'll see when or if this would become reality, but we are very glad that you like the new system.

[RuySan]

Excalibur with arcade physics sounds like a nightmare. It would be 10x more drain heavy than Star Trek

[TuttiDeLeon]

I found this table to be great fun. And i agree that the new physics would have most likely been a good fit for this table. Man this makes me miss the early days of pinball fx. All these Marvel and Star Wars tables of the last few years, just not as exciting to me.

Speed Machine, Extreme, Agents & Buccaneer. All great tables with a feel closer to real pinball, (@ least in terms of table design). I really miss them, particularly Speed Machine. Might have to fire up the Xbox 360 for a spot of nostalgia,

[shawn]

Anyone remember Rocky & Bullwinkle? That was hardcore. Shame it got delisted, it might have made for a good fit with the new physics.

I found this table to be great fun. And i agree that the new physics would have most likely been a good fit for this table. Man this makes me miss the early days of pinball fx. All these Marvel and Star Wars tables of the last few years, just not as exciting to me.

[Cloda]

I don't think the tables would play right with the new physics to be honest. They were specifically made for the FX physics model. You plop the real physics model on them and I bet a ton of issues pop up, i.e., flipper angles, rebounds into the drain, weird behavior with the 3d models, etc......

-Ski

All we are saying is that some older, more traditional layout tables will easier and more naturally lend themselves to being adapted to the real physics. Zen is already showing it is possible to tweak a table to run with different physics by having a form of the original zen physics on the Williams tables as an option along with the classic arcade physics.

[teamski]

Cloda is perfectly right on this. Earth Defense, Excalibur, Rome, Pasha, Secrets of the Deep, Biolab, were all excellent tables which were considerably more arcade-oriented. It would not be senseless at all to implement new physics for them. Even Ironman or Blade would surely be enjoyable with this option.

I don't think the tables would play right with the new physics to be honest. They were specifically made for the FX physics model. You plop the real physics model on them and I bet a ton of issues pop up, i.e., flipper angles, rebounds into the drain, weird behavior with the 3d models, etc......

-Ski

[TuttiDeLeon]

Anyone remember Rocky & Bullwinkle? That was hardcore. Shame it got delisted, it might have made for a good fit with the new physics.

[Vincent]

I do feel though that some of the original Zen tables will play really well with Zen physics (as I mentioned in my previous response - the FX2 release tables especially Rome and Pasha) as they were designed more with real table physics and layout in mind. It was only later one that tables moved further away from real life dimensions and physics.

Cloda is perfectly right on this. Earth Defense, Excalibur, Rome, Pasha, Secrets of the Deep, Biolab, were all excellent tables which were considerably more arcade-oriented. It would not be senseless at all to implement new physics for them. Even Ironman or Blade would surely be enjoyable with this option.

[Cloda]

I completely agree with you. This was always my beef with Zen tables. Games would get really long and grindy, and that always pushed me back to PBA.

Bringing new physics to the old tables would not achieve anything, since the tables have grindy goals with long games in mind. I wish zen would make a pack of original designed tables inspired with arcade physics in mind. I would love it.

It would be awesome if Zen could create their own originals with classic single player physics but I would say that is something that they should look at much later. For now, bringing a few new Williams tables every now and then and then Zen originals with Zen physics (or at least other IP's - sorry Zen, I'm tired of all the Star Wars / Marvel stuff) in-between will be more than enough (for my budget and general life balance and productivity as well ).

I do feel though that some of the original Zen tables will play really well with arcade single player physics (as I mentioned in my previous response - the FX2 release tables especially Rome and Pasha) as they were designed more with real table physics and layout in mind. It was only later one that tables moved further away from real life dimensions and design.

[RuySan]

Haha... that is exactly how I feel about it. I stopped playing because I literally didn't have the time to play for longer than an hour every couple of days. My longest game was on Paranormal where on-off the game lasted for more than 24 hours of actual playtime! After that, there were many tables were a good score would last for 4 - 6 hours e.g. Sorcerer's Lair and Ms. Splosion Man. Then there were tables where a good game last for about 2 - 3 hours such as Fantastic Four. People tend to forget that the pack of four original Pinball FX2 tables were brilliant and not all that easy as the design mindset was still more on real life table layout. Rome is tough (thinking about it, this table would probably play very well with Deep / classic arcade physics) and playing for longer than an hour is rare. Pasha is beautiful and even my best games (which lasted much longer than a standard game) were maybe 2 hours long. Similar so with Biolab (which has the original and probably still best table guide) and Secrets of the Deep (even though you could carefully and painstakingly score big and play longer on both with multi-ball).

I completely agree with you. This was always my beef with Zen tables. Games would get really long and grindy, and that always pushed me back to PBA.

Bringing new physics to the old tables would not achieve anything, since the tables have grindy goals with long games in mind. I wish zen would make a pack of original designed tables inspired with arcade physics in mind. I would love it.

[Vincent]

90% of all ball losses in fishtales happen if the ball comes down from the right lane. on one point it makes some kind of annatural move. the result is that many time it comes down right at the middle of the flippers.
this seem to be not realistic. i own the real table and, at least there, nothing like this is happening. really frustrating.

This is not normal. I was thinking Zen would have made a meticulous comparaison to the real tables.

[FRAQATTAQ]

I really like them. The physics feel good.

But is there a place were I can bring up weak spots on one of the tabes which is not exactly a bug?

90% of all ball losses in fishtales happen if the ball comes down from the right lane. on one point it makes some kind of annatural move. the result is that many time it comes down right at the middle of the flippers.

this seem to be not realistic. i own the real table and, at least there, nothing like this is happening. really frustrating.