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  • #46
    Exposing the shameful and disrespectful Zen censorship of Williams Vol.1:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDR-5awGYrA

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    • #47
      Ya ok....... so Zen worked for a long time to make these tables possible without having to purchase a pinball table for ones house and they are disrespectful? Get over it and quit making a mountain out of a molehill.

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      • #48
        This runs deeper then Watergate! Let's call it ... Flippergate. And Crow Pinball is Deep Throat...

        /sarcasm/
        Last edited by JaySTeeY; 01-01-2019, 03:06 PM.
        XBL GT - JaySTeeY
        casual pinball player, looking for friendly competition

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ALH2012 View Post
          Exposing the shameful and disrespectful Zen censorship of Williams Vol.1:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDR-5awGYrA
          Yes... I think the censhorship is a shame as well. But "shameful" & "disrespectful"? That would be more appropiate for your comments...
          https://www.arnauddeklerk.com <- Find out more about me!
          https://www.file-hunter.com <- Play Amiga & MSX Pinball games online

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          • #50
            Originally posted by tfhfony View Post
            Yes... I think the censhorship is a shame as well. But "shameful" & "disrespectful"? That would be more appropiate for your comments...
            If that is your point of view, i'm fine with it.Each to their own.In my opinion the censorship of those classic pinball tables is shameful and disrepectful.Disrespectful not only towards the audience but most importantly towards the original designers of the tables.For example, humor and a certain irreverance is a key characteristic of Medievial Madness to me.If you mess with that you mess with the identity of the table.Unimportant to some perhaps but not to others.Imo the goal of any digital pinball recreation of an original table should be to capture and preserve it as realistic as possible.Censorship goes against that very idea.And on a general level i cherish artistic freedom and censorship of it should be a no go.
            Last edited by ALH2012; 01-02-2019, 11:23 AM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ALH2012 View Post
              If that is your point of view, i'm fine with it.Each to their own.In my opinion the censorship of those classic pinball tables is shameful and disrepectful.Disrespectful not only towards the audience but most importantly towards the original designers of the tables.For example, humor and a certain irreverance is a key characteristic of Medievial Madness to me.If you mess with that you mess with the identity of the table.Unimportant to some perhaps but not to others.Imo the goal of any digital pinball recreation of an original table should be to capture and preserve it as realistic as possible.Censorship goes against that very idea.And on a general level i cherish artistic freedom and censorship of it should be a no go.
              I don't personally see the issue as disrespect as the artists have long since sold their rights to their creation and as such have no say in what modifications are made to their work. I do however see the weirdness of removing cigars and covering cleavage yet allowing a scantily clad female to hitch hike and be picked up by a sun glass wearing dude intent on breaking the law as being potentially more dangerous. I would much prefer seeing my children, now mostly adult smoking or drinking than wearing hoochie shorts with the crack of their asses hanging out hitch hiking, being picked up by strangers tearing away being chased by the police. lol..................a different conversation I suppose, but really its all fantasy and the kids see far worse in most games and know the difference between reality and fantasy and the few who are unable to differentiate from the two are the few who will likely be unable to differentiate from right and wrong no matter what is done to comply with the esrb.
              Accomplishments in real life

              1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
              2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
              3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.
              sigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by cantankerous-- View Post
                I don't personally see the issue as disrespect as the artists have long since sold their rights to their creation and as such have no say in what modifications are made to their work. I do however see the weirdness of removing cigars and covering cleavage yet allowing a scantily clad female to hitch hike and be picked up by a sun glass wearing dude intent on breaking the law as being potentially more dangerous. I would much prefer seeing my children, now mostly adult smoking or drinking than wearing hoochie shorts with the crack of their asses hanging out hitch hiking, being picked up by strangers tearing away being chased by the police. lol..................a different conversation I suppose, but really its all fantasy and the kids see far worse in most games and know the difference between reality and fantasy and the few who are unable to differentiate from the two are the few who will likely be unable to differentiate from right and wrong no matter what is done to comply with the esrb.
                You gotta point about the original artists not having a say so anymore.But just because you can (from the Zen pov) doesn't mean you should.
                And yeah where do you start and stop with the censorship?The Getaway is the only uncensored table and that is the one that openly promotes picking up random chicks and breaking the law.Go figure!

                It is not only the censorship of artwork, in the case of Medieval Madness the table has various callouts missing.That really bugs me the most.It takes away from the humor and identity of the table and imo diminishes the gameplay.Just also doesn't bode well for some of the future tables and what else might be missing.
                Last edited by ALH2012; 01-02-2019, 04:05 PM.

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                • #53
                  I can imagine that Zen hated they had to censor anything. I suspect they love pinball as much or more than any of us and did what they did in order to comply with the esrb, but have no idea how making their games g rated or whatever they are currently rated so as to appeal to children who dont even play the game can play. I mean, most I know who play are in their 40's. We live in a different time when these tables were created and much of the humor of the times when they were created are now viewed as being sexist, racist or promote behaviors now seen as bad. People just no longer have a sense of humor. That is the sad thing to me. I mean, you only have to look at how comics have evolved to see it. Every new superhero is either someone suffering ptsd which is associated with anything other than being combat related or is ethnically, racially, religiously or sexually different to the traditional. I see this personally as a great thing while also seeing it is financially and politically motivated, which is sad because those same groups that pressure companies to change strip those of us who are paying for the chance to recapture our youth of getting the experience we are longing for while saving no one in the process. It's a shit deal for everyone especially Zen.

                  Harping to Zen won't change anything unless they raise their ratings to an age that allows the censored content and seeing how the world is changing and groups increasingly become butthurt over things you and I roll our eyes at its more likely than not to get worse before it gets better. I can almost imagine a time where currently a persons sexual identity is no longer determined simply by the genitalia they were born with and others wish to contest their species claiming to identify with animals and people now stating their age should not be based on birth, but how youthful they feel............................and yes, these arguments are receiving recognition as potentially being rational thoughts. Anyway, I can imagine a time when some identify with fictional characters and species and hurt by their portrayal in pinball and other media. I know it sounds ridiculous, but really this is the world we currently live in.
                  Accomplishments in real life

                  1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
                  2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
                  3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Yeah i think i hear ya.Living in a pseudo politically correct age of candyasses where one can't even play a completely harmless pinball table uncensored.
                    It doesn't really matter how Zen feels about it, bottom line is that they need to rectify the situation.I know some and maybe Zen don't give a shit but i do.As Jean-Luc Picard aptly put it.No excuses just: Make it so.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ALH2012 View Post
                      Yeah i think i hear ya.Living in a pseudo politically correct age of candyasses where one can't even play a completely harmless pinball table uncensored.
                      It doesn't really matter how Zen feels about it, bottom line is that they need to rectify the situation.I know some and maybe Zen don't give a shit but i do.As Jean-Luc Picard aptly put it.No excuses just: Make it so.
                      I have always lived by the idea that change has never come by those willing to sit silent and accepting, so, keep lobbying for change and maybe it'll come. As one who has often voiced my sometimes contrary opinion, it won't be easy and many will tire of listening and in the end, if you succeed, few will remember or acknowledge your contribution to the cause, but if you're passionate about this, remain respectful and just keep at em. Good luck....................btw I will remember, not that I really even care. Honestly, had no one said anything, I probably wouldn't have even noticed.

                      "Things are only impossible until they're not." Jean-Luc Picard
                      Accomplishments in real life

                      1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
                      2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
                      3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ALH2012 View Post
                        Exposing the shameful and disrespectful Zen censorship of Williams Vol.1:

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDR-5awGYrA
                        We are working on having this in the original form also.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by McLovin View Post
                          We are working on having this in the original form also.
                          That would be awesome and just.Would be cool if this situation is corrected by the time of the Williams Pack 3 release.

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                          • #58
                            Censorship of Williams Vol.2:

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhYKNL1-9B8

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by M!chel View Post
                              First of all, I get your point about censorship.
                              But looking at the whole picture it's very simple.

                              Zen makes virtual pinball tables, they happen to be not an exact copy of the originals but a little bit altered. (they're still good and fun to play)
                              You, the customer, has two options:

                              - Like what you get and buy

                              or

                              - Don't like what you get and don't buy

                              It's that simple. Zen is makes these tables the way they want to, and that may not be the way you like it. That's just too bad for you. But nobody forces you to buy.Pnr Status TextNow VPN
                              You can just leave them if you don't like them
                              .
                              On the off chance that the clients couldn't care less about control or honest diversion of the tables and if Zen couldn't care less it is anybody's right to state yes or no.I'm not holding it against anybody or Zen for not thinking about restriction but rather I do mind and I locate the present circumstance unsuitable
                              Last edited by rossi123; 01-16-2019, 08:22 PM.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by McLovin View Post
                                We are working on having this in the original form also.
                                Vol.3 is upon us.Let us see if that work is going to be productive.

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