ROME Table - 10M Romulus ??

[Vincent]

Sorry but this is a joke... winning Romulus Multiball is pretty super hard to achieve (lighting the letters is only to activate the mode !), so hard that it justifies to pursue this goal in parallel with completing missions. This was the whole thing. 10M is completely underrated, no one will ever bother to accomplish this for a few millions. I really do not understand this choice ! This is just a bad one, the table lost its soul. Nothing more to say.

[deep]

Sorry but this is a joke... winning Romulus Multiball is pretty super hard to achieve (lighting the letters is only to activate the mode !), so hard that it justifies to pursue this goal in parallel with completing missions. This was the whole thing. 10M is completely underrated, no one will ever bother to accomplish this for a few millions. I really do not understand this choice ! This is just a bad one, the table lost its soul. Nothing more to say.

You just wrote the point. This was the only thing on the table that worth spamming. A pinball table that have one single thing to worth aim for is a bad table and we don't want that.

[Deco]

...A pinball table that have one single thing to worth aim for is a bad table and we don't want that.

Thats a nice view. Thx

[Cloda]

You just wrote the point. This was the only thing on the table that worth spamming. A pinball table that have one single thing to worth aim for is a bad table and we don't want that.

I agree wholeheartedly. High scores should come from playing the table as a whole e.g. play through modes and wizard mode, rather than spamming a certain mode.

[Vincent]

I agree wholeheartedly. High scores should come from playing the table as a whole e.g. play through modes and wizard mode, rather than spamming a certain mode.

Look, I totally understand your point, I'm not saying you shouldn't have lowered it at all. But talking about good and bad tables, I think a good table is a table where the reward is proportionate to the efforts. If you only get a few M after lighting all the letters, then shooting the locked ball several times, then shooting the statue from the left side, well... you better just shoot the central hole 5 times during south garrison and you get 10M. Romulus becomes absurd, and this is a great flaw, to my mind.

Please realize the Romulus initial bonus is also a countdown. If it starts at 10M, it becomes nearly impossible, and if you are good and manage to do it, the countdown will be at 2 or 3M unless you know how to raise it, which is also something hard to achieve.

Romulus was designed to be hard, now we don't understand any more why it is so hard since we only get a few M. It makes this part of the table totally illogical, which is, in my opinion, a big flaw : again, no one will ever bother to complete Romulus, it's just far too risky for what you get. So, in a way, you are doing the opposite of what you want to achieve, making things even more unbalanced, just the other way around.

So, while I'm not saying it was completely absurd to lower this bonus, I think 10M is way too low, something like 30-40M would be sensible - considering most of the time, the time you take to complete it will lower the bonus and give you like 20M in the end. I'm not a super professional pinball player, and the few times I was successful at completing Romulus, I got like 90M or less...

I love Rome and I always thought trying to trigger and win Romulus was a side quest to the missions, seeing it at 10M makes me hate what you did with this table, your 10M tweak is just as excessive as 110M, so, why falling into the same faults we are criticizing ? why not go for the middle ground ?

[Cloda]

So, while I'm not saying it was completely absurd to lower this bonus, I think 10M is way too low, something like 30-40M would be sensible - considering most of the time, the time you take to complete it will lower the bonus and give you like 20M in the end. I'm not a super professional pinball player, and the few times I was successful at completing Romulus, I got like 90M or less...

I love Rome and I always thought trying to trigger and win Romulus was a side quest to the missions, seeing it at 10M makes me hate what you did with this table, your 10M tweak is just as excessive as 110M, so, why falling into the same faults we are criticizing ? why not go for the middle ground ?

This whole table was designed to be hard I can't honestly remember how I approached Rome when I last played it. I do remember though that beating the Wizard mode was a really tough ask and I only managed to do it once or twice and you didn't even have to finish each of the Garrison main missions to get to the Wizard mode. If they really want to make it that only the top players get the high scores, they should make it that you have to complete each of the 6 Garrison missions before you can reach the wizard mode and not just finish any 6 missions, even if it is the same one.

I'm still happy with Romulus, as a side quest, scoring lower or the same as a main mission. Reaching the Wizard mode should should be your main goal for getting a big score. As soon as there is a mode that you can spam on a table, it takes all the fun out of it for me because then it means the person who is willing to put the most hours into it is going to get the high score rather than the player that has best mastered the table.

[Vincent]

This whole table was designed to be hard I can't honestly remember how I approached Rome when I last played it. I do remember though that beating the Wizard mode was a really tough ask and I only managed to do it once or twice and you didn't even have to finish each of the Garrison main missions to get to the Wizard mode. If they really want to make it that only the top players get the high scores, they should make it that you have to repeat each of the 6 Garrison missions before you can reach the wizard mode and not just finish 6 missions, even if it is the same one.

I'm still happy with Romulus, as a side quest, scoring lower or the same as a main mission. Reaching the Wizard mode should should be your main goal for getting a big score. As soon as there is a mode that you can spam on a table, it takes all the fun out of it for me because then it means the person who is willing to put the most hours into it is going to get the high score rather than the player that has best mastered the table.

I couldn't agree more, we are on the same side ! But the player who is good enough to complete Romulus should be awarded accordingly, there are many easy ways to get 10M, Romulus is worth a lot more. Middle ground, please... And again, this is a countdown, 10M means you get... no time !

[Cloda]

I couldn't agree more, we are on the same side ! But the player who is good enough to complete Romulus should be awarded accordingly, there are many easy ways to get 10M, Romulus is worth a lot more. Middle ground, please... And again, this is a countdown, 10M means you get... no time !

Sorry, that is why I quoted that section of your post in my previous post I meant to say that I do agree that they could have made it a proportionally higher reward.

[deep]

All right I hear you guys. I think it wouldn't be that bad to add a bit to the jackpot. Would 25M be okay for start, and an additional 1M for all the lane hits instead of couple hundred K points? I can now score a 40+ M jackpot easily. Would this be okay?

[Vincent]

Sounds awesome. And the effect of shooting the small flipper orbit will still remain the same, right ? i.e. raise the jackpot, same effect as in Western Garrison I guess...

[deep]

Sounds awesome. And the effect of shooting the small flipper orbit will still remain the same, right ? i.e. raise the jackpot, same effect as in Western Garrison I guess...

Remains yes, and all the other lanes do this too.

[Cloda]

All right I hear you guys. I think it wouldn't be that bad to add a bit to the jackpot. Would 25M be okay for start, and an additional 1M for all the lane hits instead of couple hundred K points? I can now score a 40+ M jackpot easily. Would this be okay?

I haven't played the table in quite a while so can't remember everything that well, but that sounds great to me. Thank you for paying attention to our discussion and for your input.

I don't have the time anymore to be so involved as I used to be, but I'm still a keen supporter and look forward to a time when I'm in a better position to play all the tables that you have released over the last three years or so that I haven't had a chance to really touch (even though I still buy all the table as soon as they are available ;-)). I haven't found a table yet that I enjoy as much as Fantastic Four and Ms. Splosion Man is brilliant even though it doesn't have the longevity of Fantastic Four for me.

[surf1der]

@deep, I haven't played Rome in a long time so I won't comment on the Romulus mode. But you seem quick to change the scoring of the table. Do you guys have a policy about rule set changes, fixing scoring imbalances, and bug fixes, and how these relate to leaderboards? If so, what is the policy? I remember barbie was hesitant to do leaderboard wipes because I believe she got death threats.

[Cloda]

@deep, I haven't played Rome in a long time so I won't comment on the Romulus mode. But you seem quick to change the scoring of the table. Do you guys have a policy about rule set changes, fixing scoring imbalances, and bug fixes, and how these relate to leaderboards? If so, what is the policy? I remember barbie was hesitant to do leaderboard wipes because I believe she got death threats.

Now is probably the best time to make changes as FX3 is being released. In a months time it will already be too late

[Vincent]

Remains yes, and all the other lanes do this too.

I really think your idea is brilliant and can reconcile both worlds, by forcing the player to earn his jackpot amount. The key for this to work is indeed to add some attractiveness to this mode, since of course it is a bit redundant with what Western G. has to offer : raising a jackpot within a multiball mode...

The Romulus will have the advantage to start at 25M and allow more bonus (since each ramp will score 1M, not only the small orbit), which will be a rightful compensation for the disadvantage of being much harder to complete (Western jackpot's validations each only requiring a shot into the Romulus hole) ; this is why this initial bonus is absolutely needed, it will act as a "boost" - and the fact that all ramps score 1M will not only prevent the countdown from quickly falling to 0, but also allow the player to actually increase the jackpot while trying to access to the final bust hole, which will maybe add some "juice" (risk) to the stuff... I honestly think this is a nice compromise, and it will really reward players who are good at shooting ramps, which is the whole purpose after all...

I'd be dying to know what the designer, Tamas Stephen, would say about it - if he's still around - after all, this is his baby...