Balls of Glory Impressions
Great pack. Love all of them.
Family Guy - Definitely the easiest of the tables and more accessible for novice Pinball players which to me is rather disappointing. Shooting Ramps (Peter, Brian, Lois etc) start the modes and you don't have to finish them to light them. There may be added to bonuses if you complete them but I couldn't tell for sure.
Lighting all of them up lights Family Matters at the center loop (The Clam) and you start the final mode. Typical final mode. MB shoot lit lanes for Jackpots then there's a super Jackpot shooting the center ramp from the top right flipper.
You can stack all the MB together. I've stacked Giggity and another MB forgot which one but had to do with hitting the clam and completing or starting the Mode associated with it.
You can also start any MB while doing any modes. It's a fun table but to my disappointment, it's going to be a marathon table. Still better than some IMO.
Oh and I think the best feature of the table is the Extra Ball shot. You hold the upper right flipper and shoot underneath it with the left flipper. It's hard to describe. That's the best shot and I think should be utilized more in future tables. There was a similar shot on the Deadpool table I think. Again love that shot.
Bob's Burgers - Interesting table. Only played a couple of times. Lot's of ramps to shoot but I don't find it as I would call it 'Ramp Spam' Like some of Zen's tables *cough Darth Vader, World War Hulk *cough Which I dislike. Another table where modes can stack which is a good thing. Haven't delved to much into this table but I found it rather fun interesting enough and not as easy as Family Guy.
Archer - This table is interesting That's all I can say. You start modes in different ways.
1. Getting the ball into the bumpers and hitting the bumpers a certain amount of time opens up the sink hole where the spy car is.
2. Hitting the car spells Archer starts different modes.
3. Lighting the respective letter in each lane. Spelling Danger Zone for instance starts a mode
I think Finishing a mode lights the lock.
I think this table will be challenging. There's a risk involved hitting the spy car as it can drain pretty quickly if you're not careful.
My second favorite of the pack.
American Dad - So far my favorite of the pack. Lot's of modes that stack. The ball actually feels a bit off compared to typical Zen. It's a bit 'floaty' which make this table really interesting. Ramps seem tighter especially the Decider ramp.
Without reading the rules, I wasn't sure what lights the letters but I will investigate further. I only read the rules as a last resort. I like figuring out the table when I first play it.
Actually don't know why the ball turns different colors just yet. Overall I like this table the best.
The pack is awesome. Typical Zen charm and uniqueness. The tables cater to varying pinball experiences which is a huge plus. I know I can't have every table be a challenging one. I just like tables I can get into and not be a marathon one.
Again Great Pack Can't wait to see what else you have in store us.
STTC you can use some of this in your guides.
I am enjoying the tables too, need more play time before I can give a detailed response but I too felt like the ball was a tad more floaty on these tables than I am used to in Zen, that balls that seemed like you would easily catch, you better be paying attention or you can lose it. Not that it was floaty like Pinball Arcade, but slightly more that direction.
Perhaps this is done to prevent the marathon games you refer to. Same with the overpowered slingshots (that unfortunately all the new tables seem to have these days) can rocket your ball into the outlane with not much you can do about it. I wish they would tone that done a little bit, as getting to wizard mode is hard/long enough with just mistakes I cause.
Originally Posted by djb5f
The only table that I feel the ball is 'floaty' is American Dad. The other tables I don't get that feel. The active Slings are much needed in My opinion. I prefer it that way. Only because it gives me that sense of unease. Gives these tables more actual Pinball feel to them rather than long marathon games where Zen's balls have too much weight on them. Again Personal Opinion.
I've played American Dad most but pretty sure I noticed it in Archer too.
I have only really put any time into Bob's Burgers and I'm a bit disappointed so far. Love the show and wanted to love the pinball table, but it just feels unfinished to me.
-A lot of shots have no call out associated with them, heck I started the rat infestation mode and the game didn't even have any sounds or call outs to acknowledge it or any shots preceding it. This sort of player feed back is important and adds to the experience. The only indicators any progress is being made are the light up inserts and the DMD, which I instinctively look at when a call out sounds to see what the shot triggered. It makes the game feel lifeless a lot of the time when there is no auditory feedback.
-Louise roll overs are awkward and overly difficult. It would have been better if LO UI and SE were each treated as one roll over.
-The skill shot should be called the luck shot. You can't change the rollover lane for the skillshot and it is hard to visually gauge how far back the plunger is with the Gene's hand plunger.
Feedback is such an important part of any pinball game and separates mediocre tables from legendary ones. For example, The Adams Family has modes like the mamushka where you get the silly music and every shot triggers the "Hey!" call out, or my favorite Seance which was a pretty basic two shot mode, but the knock the machine made when you made your shots made it incredible. Activating modes has a corresponding sound and the game holds the ball for a moment to show you which modes you activated.
Bob's Burgers just starts most modes rather unceremoniously, which does make the game play faster, but also makes the modes feel less substantial and special.
The ball in archer doesn't feel floaty at all to me.
Originally Posted by djb5f
Archer is the only table in this pack that I was looking forward to as I dislike the F Guy and A Dad shows and don't care for B Burgers. Unfortunately I think Archer is my least favorite. It looks like it has interesting shots, but the geometry feels a bit off to me. There are tons of flat shots, shots that kill momentum dead and shots that really break the flow. many of the call-outs seem randomly chosen and disconnected from the humor (a handful are really great though). The sound effects are a bit weak and sparse overall and the phone is just grating.
I like the car toy (when a missed shot to the trunk isn't getting stuck and killing the flow) and the spinner and the hidden hole. The gun is done really bad though. It's buried in the field and covered and the shot sound effect is really bad. I had probably played 10 games before I even realized it was supposed to be a gun. The very slow mechanism to feed the gun then the top flipper really drags the game down to. The woodhouse flap/rail is a weak, unsatisfying shot and overall there aren't really any shots that have a good, satisfying feel to them. The DMD is a crime against humanity. Seriously, there is tons of content and images they could have been great (with solid colors so they wouldn't be grey-scaled out like the marvel clips) and they didn't do anything with it at all. 90% of the time it shows a barely animated Archer logo with text for the ramp you're currently spelling. Occasionally it shows a sliding still image of a completely uninteresting scene. The DMD is really poorly timed to the shots and pauses and does a very poor job of relaying instructions.
There's almost no flash or fanfare to anything. If it didn't flash points on the screen you wouldn't even know you had completed a mode it's so anticlimactic.
On the plus side I think this table has some of the best playfield art and art layout. Good design, lots of varying contrast and color. Lots of appeal.
I've been playing it over and over hoping I'll start to like it, but honestly I think I just have to admit that of all 60 tables it is probably one of my least favorite even though it is possibly my favorite theme out of all of them.
I'm a bit bummed. I turned it off and I'm going to have a beer.
EDIT: Sorry. Not trying to bag on it so much or be an ass, I'm just really bummed at how it turned out.
Last edited by Metalzoic; 10-22-2015 at 01:29 PM.
After a game on each table, for me it's a good pack. Not revolutionary, just good.
The big problem with Balls of Glory (and the last tables) is the difficulty to activate some basic things, which were always simple on all pinballs of the word, like kickbacks for exemple.
Add to the hard physic (hard slingshots, fast ball), the balls drain to many times in the outlanes. Many new tables are like that now and I guess it's a will of ZS, but I'm skeptical.
For all these reasons, the gameplay becomes more casual, and technique is set aside (impossible to control the ball when a timing mission is running for exemple). And me, I like technique in game.
That's only my first impressions, I guess I will discover many tips and play better with time. But if I discovered the gameroom with this pack (or the lastest tables), I don't know if I enjoyed it.
I have to disagree at some points. Real pinballs rarely have the option to relight kickbacks. Right now only 3 IRL pinball pop in my mind that has this feature, and only at the left outlane. Furthermore relighting the kickback is everything but simple on these tables.
Originally Posted by wims
I think the faster ball and harder slingshots make the game more technique based since you have to prevent the ball from touching the slings so you have to be more precise with your shots. I think the game was casual before because you didn't have to be too skilled to score big. Keeping the ball in control is everything in the world of pinball.
I definitely agree with Deep. I think you've got it a bit backwards, as tables get tougher they actually become less casual, requiring more technique and more skill to do well and keep the ball in play. I definitely think the newer, slightly tougher tables and more energetic slings are a big improvement over the older design. Harder is better. Even then, Zen pinball is much easier (by design) than the real thing as real pinball is far more active, faster and difficult to control.
Originally Posted by wims
Earlier it was mentioned the ball felt floaty, but that's nothing compared to a real machine.
You're probably right, that makes a long time I've played on a real pinball machine now.
Originally Posted by deep
May be I'm wrong, but for me the ease of activating kickbacks should be studied, according to the general difficulty of the table and its architecture. A table with a high risk of losing in outlanes (as WWR) should have easy kickbacks. Otherwise, gamers will only play multiballs trying to preserve at least one ball, and forget the true purpose in pinball (not only keep the ball) : the wizard modes. But ok, conversely, a table with several multiballs easy to activate should have difficult kickbacks to activate. It's not easy but it's a concept that must be studied, not just say "we will make difficult kickbacks to activate" without worrying about the rest of the table, if physics is fast, if architecture is treacherous or if slingshots are stronger.
For example with Archer, I made only one game without reading the rules (so it's just an impression) : it seemed very difficult (fast ball, hard slingshot, hard architecture, many risks of drain), and I didn't undestand how to activate kickbacks on this first game (ok I must read the guide). Kickbacks are just a gaming priority before engaging a mission with only one ball and reach wizard modes. I'm afraid to see you create full of beautiful things that will never be seen by 99% of the gamers because you overestimate the global difficulty of the gameplay.
Mmm, it doesn't depend of the technique or accuracy of your shots (unless you really want to target slingshots), but for me most of trajectories when balls descended tuching slingshots and go faster and directly in the outlanes. Any technique can't prevent that.
Originally Posted by deep
You always need to be skilled to make an highscore. But today, you don't need to be too skilled to make a highscore. Specially when several modes or multiballs can be easily simultaneously activated (casual players found that fun, but they don't know how they did to activate them, and they make points). For me that becomes more chance than technique.
Originally Posted by deep
I'm agree to say previous tables were (may be) too simple for hardcore gamers (not for all gamers). There was a sense of moving forward, reaching build something, with a risk of losing the ball always present if we deviated from this technique, or if we made mistakes. I liked that feeling.
As I said I just played one game on each table so I speak in the wind, I probably would arrive to do something good with these 4 tables, but the general gameplay has really changed. I hope you will earn new players with that thing, but I also know some left because they were too disturbed by these changes.
Last edited by djb5f; 10-22-2015 at 02:22 PM.
I can understand both points here.
Having more active slingshots isn't neccessarily a problem. However here are two problems that are kinda related:
1. The kickbacks on the four new tables seem to be harder to activate than on previous tables. Most of the previous tables I activated kickbacks by accident occasionally but on the new tables that rarely happens and activating kickbacks that are timed like on Bob's Burgers can be a little annoying.
2. Avoiding slingshots is a very important skill. However making one thing more realistic and neglecting another (in this case the nudge) makes it more awkward. Nudging a real table has a fairly large effect on the ball when it's coming down the table. In Zen Pinball it has almost no effect at all. Sometimes in Zen it's just not possible to avoid slingshots even if you play pretty much perfectly.
To me this isn't a huge deal because I played this game so much I have 90%+ success rate to get a bang back on pretty much every table so lighting the kick backs isn't really a priority anymore. However I can see how this would be a huge turnoff especially for people who just started playing the game. Of course it's a difficult slippery slope and appealing to all players is difficult but I'm sure Zen will find a compromise at some point
The Archer table is quickly becoming my favorite out of the pack. Mainly because it requires accuracy to hit the shots. You are punished for bad shots pretty severely, and hitting the ball too hard into the car can cause some problems with the uncertainty of how hard the ball is returned down into the flippers. It's not blatantly unfair like a few of those star wars tables can be, and in regards to the "flow" of the table. I find the flow to be just fine.
Originally Posted by wims
As for the kickbacks, out of any of the tables in the pack getting the kickbacks on archer is easy enough. Hit the spinner till you make 2500$ in operations money. Hit the 3 SPY targets and visit the armory (the low right ramp). Purchase kickbacks.
The one thing i do like about this table is that it's kinda set up against the multiball spam that's prevalent in a lot of other recent tables. You need to make a very quick shot up the danger zone ramp after you finish a mode/mission to lock a ball. Or hit krieger's robot arm a couple of times to activate a 2 ball mode. (i don't exactly know what activates it, but it's the easiest multiball to complete). The other multiball mode that i know if is a total PITA to get. You have to hang up on the phone when it's ringing (which always comes up at random times) and then lock the ball in the same spot.
The various mission modes are well done and offer a variety where they don't get boring. I'm getting better at completing the various missions, but trying to get a lot of them done in the same game is challenging.
This table isn't a blatantly unfair "Screw you" type of table. You just have to be careful with your shots and complete the modes to get good scores.
Agree. Though Archer is still my second favorite of the pack. As you mentioned, this table is set up to avoid MB spam which is definitely a plague of some of the recent tables that have come. Most notably to me is Star Wars Episode 4 where you just get into the bumpers and hit them a certain amount and MB Starts. Jackpots Ramp up and soon you have 5 million a shot. Rinse, repeat, do a marathon, get high score. While reading the table guide, it even says it is to alleviate MB spam or different compared to the other tables.
Originally Posted by DarkKodiaK
Getting MB isn't impossible on this table. It's random especially the one where the phone rings and you have to hit the target above the left sling shots, Which requires accurate shots. This would be my favorite table if it weren't for American Dad
I'm having a blast with American Dad. The Threat level is an interesting mechanic on this table. I finally Noticed that the ball turns the color depending what threat level you are at. Also depending on the threat level the more points you score in the mode as timers vary. Very cool.
There are 8 main modes that light up AMERICAN. From my experience you don't have to complete them. I lit American last night and got Wizard mode for the first time and the Achievement/trophy. It was kind of confusing at first though Finally got a 2 ball MB going. It's sort of an 'add a ball' MB which is also interesting rather than a straight up MB and get the most amount points.
So much to do. Stacking modes galore. Just an overall fun table.
Bob's Burgers will likely be a Spammable MB table. Hit the left spinner continually till Lock is lit. hit the center loop and viola 3 ball MB. I noticed I had 2 balls locked while it turned night. hit the left spinner to start 'Trick or Treat MB. daytime arrived and 2 balls were still locked. Not sure if that's a feature or MB just starts off right away hitting the Spinner till it light LOCK.
Bob's Burgers is growing on me. It's actually a tough table to figure out. Perhaps it's because the Kickbacks are a bit harder to activate and Band Backs are a bit tougher to do. I find the ball goes in the out-lanes a lot. The only way to activate Kickback is to light LINDA Letters in the in/outlanes, you have several seconds to shoot the right loop behind the TINA targets and and then shoot the ball with the upper Left flipper. Still confusing on what light all your customers that you need to get to this tables 'Wizard' Mode. Crofts' most interesting table to date. His recent tables have been hit or miss. I think it's a hit.
Family Guy is by far the easier table of the 2. My sons favorite table. You don't have to complete the modes much like Sorcerer's Lair. You do get more points when you do that adds to the 'Wizard' Mode of this table. The only tough thing about this table is getting shooting at targets on the left and right side just above the slings. It requires the accurate shot that's tough for most.
I also find Kickbacks harder to get on this tables. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Though I do find it harder to do bang backs on Family guy, Bob's burgers, and Archer tables for some reason. American Dad I find it just as easy as earlier tables. I love challenging table like this where you have to work for your scores.
Again the best part of the table is the shot where you hold the upper right flipper and shoot under it. Still a fun table.
Still an overall great pack. It may not be for everybody but I'm enjoying the heck out them. Especially American Dad.
That's all I have for now.
Yea loving the American Dad table as well. As for that family guy shot, there are 2 shots that are similar on the Deadpool table. Under each upper flipper. Haven't really put too much time into bob's burgers yet, and family guy is kinda fun. Not my fav from the pack.
Originally Posted by tenorhero
I haven't spent a whole lot of time playing them yet, but so far I like them all. American Dad may be my least favorite, which I found odd after seeing Deep designed it as his are usually my favorite. I thought the two sinkholes on the right slowed the game down too much, but again, I haven't played much and maybe I just haven't figured out the tables flow yet.
I'm on the fence about the more realistic slingshots. On some tables I don't mind them, even like them, but on more frustrating tables like Age of Ultron, I find myself wishing for the old ones.
My only real problem with ZP2, and I've said this before and know it's not something that can be changed, is how the proscore leaderboard got messed up by including every version of the soccer table. Chasing scores on that was what had me playing every single day for a really long time, but ever since the soccer table messed that up I've lost a lot of my ZP2 enthusiasm. If at all possible, when ZP3 comes out, could some please change it so that this doesn't happen. Maybe just include the highest score across all versions if a person owns more than one.
Sorry, I kind of went off topic.
Anyway, good work to all involved. I'm off to play some more.
Ok Bob's burgers is growing on me. For me I think the challenge is making sure that your kickbacks are up. I usually don't have a problem doing bang backs but that left side seems nigh impossible to do so every time. I'm not sure what it is.
That said I think the best way to score on this table is Wizard mode which is somewhat simple to get to. Basically shoot the center ramp 4 times for self promotion (2m finish bonus) Do this again so you can server 3 customers.
Start orders hitting the sinkhole Bob's burgers 3 times. I try and shoot the right loop then the cross-ramp shot with the upper left flipper. Bob says 'I'd recommend the burger of the day' Each lane lit now gives a 1m bonus. Once orders is done basically shoot Lanes and combos in fry mode to rank up the cost of your burgers. I think the more you fry the bigger the delivery bonus is when the customer lanes are flashing. Or you can just wait till the timer goes down if you feel that some shots can be a risk of draining. If you drain mode, you'll have to start over again shooting the sinkhole 3 times.
Once done with fry mode Random lanes flash and you shoot appropriate lanes to keep them lit and server your customers. It's basically a hurry up for each lane hit. I had it up to 4m+ it decreases pretty rapidly so light lanes as fast as you can. Basically repeat the above steps and wizard mode is lit at the sinkhole. Wizard mode is lit both night and day I'm not sure if it's different for either.
Wizard mode is a 4 ball MB score jackpots then try and hit the super jackpot on the cross-ramp. Scores are random depending how many modes you finish.
Trick or treat MB (Night) shoot the right spinner till the mileage get's down to zer0. Jackpots are 250k which is kind of minuscule. I'm not sure if you can increase it so doing this MB seems kind of pointless. The daytime MB gives you bit more in scoring but not again seems like it's pointless as the scores aren't very high. Wizard mode is the best way to score. Other modes when completed give you a range of 2 - 5m. Stacking them can be rewarding them.
Fun table. I find it much more engaging than Family guy.
Last edited by tenorhero; 10-30-2015 at 07:27 AM.
Not to derail the thread, but I agree with hunter328 that its too bad the proscore leaderboard got messed up by including every version of the soccer table. The players that exploited this advantage by buying and playing every soccer team should be ashamed of themselves.
OK, back on topic. American Dad is by far my favorite of the four. Family Guy is too easy and the other two seem incomplete. The 'threat level' part of AD is excellent and I like that there are several varying strategy decisions to be made according to game situations. (Which extra ball should I go for, or should I go for a kickback...or raise the threat level...or start a mission...)
As far as "mature" cartoons go, I'd just love a Squidbillies pinball, although I suppose its humor would be too dark and weird for many.
Originally Posted by hunter328
Well, now I look stupid. That's what I get for giving my opinion too early. American Dad is now definitely my favorite of the four. Whenever you all decide to make it, I hope DEEP is the one to design the Twin Peaks table.
Funny, I had the same experience. First impressions of this table weren't good so I played all the others, I went back to it and realised how good it is! A fun, solid table. My one complaint would be I wish the two main multiballs were more interesting.
Originally Posted by hunter328
I had a small glitch earlier this week in the helicopter ( if ferget his name)((Bertram?) anyway I had a freeze up when missles collided and it was the 'last point to be had- I'm running 99% on PS4 now, ( where it happened). I just hit the reset button on the controller to quit game, went back in and optioned 'not continue' previous game- all is good
You youngin' go right ahead and complain about the table simplicity- I'm havin' just too much fun! I get amazed @ the origins and how all the electrics "under the table" and sequencing is done! I'm tellin' everybody by werd of mouth about Zen Pinball!- Started with primary on the app store with Apple, now I'm not fighting with a keypad on a rolling sub desk! just a sticky left R1 switch!
BTW, I'm Captivethumb on the PSN.
I'm a pinball noob.. But Family Guy has me hooked !!! Put 20hrs in since buying it. Its hilarious. The sound effects are spot on !
Well done Zen 10/10 for me... Hardly touched the other tables. So can't comment on 'em. Just loving Family guy.
Would love to read a strategy guide on the best way to achieve a high score on FamilyGuy. Not that i'm probably good enough to hit everything i'm supposed too, when against the clock, most of my high scores are probably attributed to luck more than anything.... After 25 or so hrs, the best score i've been able to acheive is 97mil, but most my games end around the 30mil
I know you all say its too easy. But I don't think anything in Pinball is easy. Whilst i continue to practice, would you all agree Wizard mode is the best way to mega points? So with that being said, should players always aim to complete each mission one by one to get to wizard mode or just go with other missions.
Last edited by thedoc46; 02-11-2016 at 10:04 PM.
In pinball it's all about the risk/reward factor. Wizard Mode isn't always the best way to score points because it's so hard to get there on some tables and make it work in a way that big points are actually possible. Sometimes wizard mode is best but other times it's better to go for multiballs, spam ramps or repeat the same side mission over and over again.
Originally Posted by thedoc46
As far as Family Guy is concerned I honestly can't even remember. I think I did go for wizard mode on that one though.
The only Zen Pinball DLC I haven't bought so far because I hate the cartoon look of the tables, especially the ball and flippers.
Lois and Meg Griffin should be used like Francine was
Wonderful wonderful American Dad pinball. Francine a delight on it
Then you have Family Guy. Why wasn't Lois and Meg used the same way ?
Why the worst characters - Joe Swanson (not the worst), Peter and the tedious Brian - used, while no Lois, no Meg, and precious little Quagmire ????
Archer and Bobs Burgers I have no interest at all
A Rick and Morty INSTEAD of Archer and Bobs Burgers and more Lois/Meg/Quagmire would have me buying this for my PC (refusing to pay full price for stuff like Bobs and Archer, I already have American Dad on my Sony Z2)
Last edited by PhilK; 08-25-2016 at 04:00 PM.