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Thread: Changes in Pinball FX3 tables - by Deep

  1. #1
    Community Manager McLovin's Avatar
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    Default Changes in Pinball FX3 tables - by Deep

    Our beloved Deep embarked on a quest to tweak our tables for the new release, and fix a few bugs as well while he's at it.

    All tables
    - New lighting engine and polished graphics
    - Slingshots and bumpers tuned up to match the newer tables and real life pinballs


    Wild West Rampage
    - Right outlane is now more forgiving
    - Multiplier targets are easier to hit
    - Rampage Multiball locking is easier if the multiball didn't start
    - 1 Duel win instead of 3 and 5-way combo instead of 10 needed for light extraballs
    - Skillshot scores got some balanced values

    ElDorado
    - Ball saver will be activated once out of 5 completed JADE rollovers (random), other 4 completition gives various scores
    - Fixed a bug where the Multiball started with 3 balls instantly instead of 2.
    - Multiball starting were balanced: the idol stays open longer at start, but the light lock targets need to be hit once more after every ended multiball (max 5)

    Shaman
    - Right sinkhole is more accessible
    - Spindisks are now actually working
    - Fixed an issue where a CAST hole hit gave 2 letters at a time
    - Balanced the CAST ball saver award to give ball save 2 times out of 6 completition (random), the rest gives 100K

    Tesla
    - Main mode about to start is now random with every start of the game.
    - Next main mode will be automatically chosen after completing one.
    - Main mode starter minigame is a bit easier
    - Multiball jackpots are balanced, higher jackpots at start but they reset with every start of the multiball
    - The spinner holds the ball for a shorter time now and gives ball saver after 100K points made with it, raises a bit after every activation

    V12
    - The table is globally now more accessible, easier to hit lanes

    Sorcerer's Lair
    - The ball that drains through the left outlane right after hitting a bumper will be saved
    - Bones main mode is easier to complete
    - Right loop hit corrected so the ball will go around as it should
    - Fixed a bug where the table couldn't nudged for couple of seconds after a cellar mode
    - Collecting obsidians balanced: they will reset after the second time the table gets completed (finished Midnight mode) to prevent exploiting their bonus

    Biolab
    - Fixed various bugs:
    - Extra-tilt warning (Mutation reward) doesnt work on FX3 (this reward gives normally 3 nudges before tilt on FX2).
    - Mini-bug (on FX2 too) : Super skillshot (double skillshot) gives no points when a ball is locked in the tubular.
    - Mini-bug (on FX2 too) : when a creature is born (after 3 tuchs) the dmd shows the message "and now for the genetic sequencing" and if the ball is in the jar in the same time to start a mission, we cant see the chosen mission (hidden by the message).
    - Precision on the bug activation of Wheel multiball during the Reflex upgrade : the wheel multiball can be activated doing 4x combos, so when we do it on the Reflex upgrade, that starts a multiball.
    - Bug with the activation of wheel in motion multiball during the Reflexes ugrade.

    Pasha
    - Ball saver timer in Wizard mode shortened

    Rome
    - Fixed a bug where after launching the ball on Justice mini-game the flippers didn't work anymore and the ball got lost
    - Romulus Jackpot score balanced to match other scores of the table

    Excalibur
    - Easier to hit the cross ramp

    Paranormal
    - Vertical mini playfield easier to play
    - Jackpot raising with the spinner got balanced

    Marvel: Ant-Man
    - The multi-billion shots in wizard mode got balanced

    Marvel: Fear Itself
    - Raft mode base score balanced

    Marvel: Thor
    - Fixed an issue where the right kickback shot the ball to the drain

    Marvel: Moon Knight
    - Fixed a bug where the Encircled mode remained lit once it got started

    Marvel: Iron Man
    - Main modes can be started easier
    - Lanes can be hit a bit easier
    - Locker drop target is now more forgiving when hit

    Marvel: Spider-Man
    - Right sinkhole is more accessible now

    Marvel: Doctor Strange
    - Hitting the lanes are smoother
    - Starting main modes are a bit easier

    Marvel: Fantastic Four
    - New fire effects
    - Bumper and combo scores got balanced
    - Scores during The Doctor Doom main mode gives bigger scores, completing it gives 4 million instead of 0

    Marvel: Civil War
    - Hitting the lanes are smoother
    - Fixed a score exploit what could occur shooting the right sinkhole enough times, score capped at 1M instead of 4M

    Marvel: Captain America
    - Main mode completition scores splitted to make them available during the mode with progressing shots

    Star Wars: Droids
    - Main mode starting is a bit easier

    Star Wars: Episode IV A new hope
    - Death Star multiball starting balanced, needs more and more bumper hits after every start
    - Death Star multiball jackpot exploit prevented with a diverter on the jackpot ramps

    Star Wars: Masters of the Force
    - Hitting the lanes are smoother

    Star Wars: Darth Vader
    - Fixed a bug where sometimes the Target Drill bonus got hold on next ball
    - Target Drill score capped to prevent exploiting

    Star Wars: Episode V The Empire Strikes Back
    - Main mode scores got balanced (raised)
    - Scene 6 can be selected from the beginning
    - Fixed a bug where the end of ball bonus scores did not reset after TILT
    - Cloud City multiball can be started easier at first, gets harder with further starts

    Star Wars: Rogue One
    - Wizard mode scores balanced a bit, scoop won't give the ball back always to the right arm to prevent exploiting

    Star Wars: Clone Wars
    - Exploit prevented by caping the scores in Citadel side-mission

    Skyrim Pinball
    - Starting of the Dovahkiin Multiball got balanced. The lit locks won't disappear after locking a ball, but it demands more hits to light them after the first and second start of the multiball.
    - Refined the working of flashig lights by default

    Doom Pinball
    - Fixed a bug where the mini playfield gave too high score.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mammouth's Avatar
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    Woo ! I love this changelog !
    When Mammouth will be hungry, it means that thin people will have already died

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    WoW. That's one hell of a list My compliments.
    Will the tables in ZP2 on the PS4 also receive these updates / bugfixes, or are they FX3 only?

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    Senior Member Mammouth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfhfony View Post
    WoW. That's one hell of a list My compliments.
    Will the tables in ZP2 on the PS4 also receive these updates / bugfixes, or are they FX3 only?
    I think they'll do nothing to ZP2 from now, to concentrate all on PBFX3.

    Deep, can you also fix the right orbit on Walking Dead, which sometimes make a plane when the ball comes back ? Thanks
    When Mammouth will be hungry, it means that thin people will have already died

  5. #5
    Table Designer deep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfhfony View Post
    WoW. That's one hell of a list My compliments.
    Will the tables in ZP2 on the PS4 also receive these updates / bugfixes, or are they FX3 only?
    Only the PFX3 will get the updated tables, but you can carry the tables over from ZP2 to PFX3 so no worries

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    Default Can't wait to try out v12 again. Hoping its closer to zen pinball 1 physics

    Quote Originally Posted by McLovin View Post

    V12
    - The table is globally now more accessible, easier to hit lanes
    Really looking forward to this.

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    Default A pinball builder, like mario maker

    Maybe in pinball fx4 you can focus on making the best pinball creator so us players could design and post online our creations and then maybe you guys could pick your favorites and tweak them and add licensing and custom sounds. I would do it just for swag and recognition, I mean assuming I could even make anything that was worthy of recognition. Yes, I know it would be a major undertaking, but imagine how amazing it could be If you could pull it off. Must I put in the word water every time I post? Ive posted 4 times I think and had the same, "random" question appear. Im thinking a bot could eventually figure it out.

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    Hoo Boy, that Excalibur cross ramp shot has haunted me for YEARS - I'm hyped if it really is easier to hit. The only frustration I have with a still today top 3 fave table of mine.

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    Senior Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Sorry but did I read correctly, are you seriously considering lowering, NIVELLING DOWN ROMULUS JACKPOT ??? Come on ! This is the jewel of the table, the sequence is so hard to perform, the reward is completely deserved ! Being a huge fan of the table, I'm telling you : if you do that, you will just KILL this table. It would be a shame ! Don't do that please !

  10. #10
    Table Designer deep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Sorry but did I read correctly, are you seriously considering lowering, NIVELLING DOWN ROMULUS JACKPOT ??? Come on ! This is the jewel of the table, the sequence is so hard to perform, the reward is completely deserved ! Being a huge fan of the table, I'm telling you : if you do that, you will just KILL this table. It would be a shame ! Don't do that please !
    It is easy enough to start the mode and the 100+M is ridiculously high compared to other scores on the table. You wont lose anything, everyone will get the same scores and the table's scores will be more balanced. It was faulty since the release of the table that needed to be corrected.

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    Senior Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep View Post
    It is easy enough to start the mode and the 100+M is ridiculously high compared to other scores on the table. You wont lose anything, everyone will get the same scores and the table's scores will be more balanced. It was faulty since the release of the table that needed to be corrected.
    I always thought it had been designed that way purposefully, wasn't it ? My guess is a lot of care was put into PFX2 core tables at the time the game was released. Romulus 100M+ jackpot always seemed fair to me, I would never have regarded it as a mistake. What does Tamas Stephen say about this ?
    Last edited by Vincent; 09-08-2017 at 09:09 PM.

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    Awesome thread, thanks!

    Could you please increase the music volume of Return of the Jedi? Every table has a good balance between audio and music but RotJ's music is way too low

    Another concern is Pasha. The table is great but fighting the guards is too hard in my opinion and couldn't figure out the magnet minigame yet.

  13. #13
    Table Designer deep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanderL View Post
    Awesome thread, thanks!

    Could you please increase the music volume of Return of the Jedi? Every table has a good balance between audio and music but RotJ's music is way too low.
    There will be detailed audio options in PFX3 so you can separately set the level of music, voiceovers, sfx, physical sfx and overall volume.

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    Senior Member LeanderL's Avatar
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    Thanks but per table? FX2 also has these options but only for all tables at once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanderL View Post
    Thanks but per table? FX2 also has these options but only for all tables at once.
    No. Not per table. It's the same as in FX2.

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    I see. Then they should definitely increase the music volume in Return of the Jedi. It's not loud enough (I don't want to change sliders when jumping from table to table).

  17. #17
    Junior Member VIPER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deep View Post
    There will be detailed audio options in PFX3 so you can separately set the level of music, voiceovers, sfx, physical sfx and overall volume.
    I was hoping for this option since the original game. Some tables I wanted to adjust the voices, some the fx, some music,...
    So with this you are solving half of the issue. Now you have to, like others mentioned, seperate the option for each table.
    Each table is a game on its own basically. Imagine you'd have to have same settings for every game you play and only be able to adjust them for all at once.


    It's nice to hear about all the work you're putting into PFX3, though I am quite shocked at you lowering the difficulty on things on so many tables.
    Yes, some are warranted. Several holes and targets (mostly very low ones on the sides) are extremely hard to hit. Though I never complain about such things, I can understand any fix like that. But you guys should not overthink things and fix too much.
    I can't comment on all the fixes...it takes a while before you make a trip around all the tables so remembering everything can be hard, but also makes it great, because every table always stays fresh...but here are a few that just don't make sense to me.

    Selection of, yes it's hard(ish), but so what?
    Wild West Rampage
    - Multiplier targets are easier to hit
    *Many tables have difficult multiplier rasing. Many have easy raising. Diversity is ok.
    - 1 Duel win instead of 3 and 5-way combo instead of 10 needed for light extraballs
    *It's wild west. I'm pretty sure things were hard back then. Why then make things easier for us???
    Paranormal
    - Vertical mini playfield easier to play
    *It's a skill challenge. You don't make a challenge easier because some people find it too much.
    Marvel: Spider-Man
    - Right sinkhole is more accessible now
    *OK, can be tricky, but still, so what?
    Star Wars: Droids
    - Main mode starting is a bit easier
    *This one I remember the least, but you guys are really making me sad with simplifying things.
    Marvel: Doctor Strange
    - Starting main modes are a bit easier
    *He had quite a rough time starting off, why do we get a break??

    Selection of, what are you doing??, it's not hard at all!
    With these the only conclusion I can think off, you are listening to people who haven't taken the time to really play the tables. Which is a wide spread problem in the industry.
    Sorcerer's Lair
    - Bones main mode is easier to complete
    *Saying it needs to be made easier is just ridiculous. It's not hard at all. Sure, before I really got to play the table I failed it several times. Now, I can't imagine not finishing it unless I really had some bad luck.
    Excalibur
    - Easier to hit the cross ramp
    *It is so easy to hit I don't understand how it will be even easier??
    Marvel: Iron Man
    - Main modes can be started easier
    - Lanes can be hit a bit easier
    - Locker drop target is now more forgiving when hit


    OK, I guess I remember most of them well.
    I really cannot understand the above fixes.
    If I had to pick the 3 most unneeded fixes you are making, because non of them is actually hard to do, I guess I'd pick:
    #1
    Excalibur
    - Easier to hit the cross ramp
    #2
    Sorcerer's Lair
    - Bones main mode is easier to complete
    #3
    Can't decide on the third one. All the ones with the word "easier" in them just make my head spin.

    Not everything needs to be easy, it's ok if some things are hard. People just need to put some effort in.
    And I am no pro. My scores are nothing special. Sure, I'm better than an average player, like in every game I play, but I never challenge the best people. Mostly because I don't feel like putting all my time into 1 game and rather play a wide selection of them.
    If your changes were for something so hard only the best players could do, OK I guess, go fix them. But you are changing things that are fine and average players can do just fine.

    I know this post wont make a difference, but I had to say it to at least have peace of mind as I did something, seeing one of my favourite games is "under attack".



    All the other fixes seem reasonable, because as you wrote, you're actually fixing a problem.
    But none of the ones I mentioned are problems.

  18. #18
    Table Designer deep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIPER View Post
    I was hoping for this option since the original game. Some tables I wanted to adjust the voices, some the fx, some music,...
    So with this you are solving half of the issue. Now you have to, like others mentioned, seperate the option for each table.
    Each table is a game on its own basically. Imagine you'd have to have same settings for every game you play and only be able to adjust them for all at once.


    It's nice to hear about all the work you're putting into PFX3, though I am quite shocked at you lowering the difficulty on things on so many tables.
    Yes, some are warranted. Several holes and targets (mostly very low ones on the sides) are extremely hard to hit. Though I never complain about such things, I can understand any fix like that. But you guys should not overthink things and fix too much.
    I can't comment on all the fixes...it takes a while before you make a trip around all the tables so remembering everything can be hard, but also makes it great, because every table always stays fresh...but here are a few that just don't make sense to me.

    Selection of, yes it's hard(ish), but so what?
    Wild West Rampage
    - Multiplier targets are easier to hit
    *Many tables have difficult multiplier rasing. Many have easy raising. Diversity is ok.
    - 1 Duel win instead of 3 and 5-way combo instead of 10 needed for light extraballs
    *It's wild west. I'm pretty sure things were hard back then. Why then make things easier for us???
    Paranormal
    - Vertical mini playfield easier to play
    *It's a skill challenge. You don't make a challenge easier because some people find it too much.
    Marvel: Spider-Man
    - Right sinkhole is more accessible now
    *OK, can be tricky, but still, so what?
    Star Wars: Droids
    - Main mode starting is a bit easier
    *This one I remember the least, but you guys are really making me sad with simplifying things.
    Marvel: Doctor Strange
    - Starting main modes are a bit easier
    *He had quite a rough time starting off, why do we get a break??

    Selection of, what are you doing??, it's not hard at all!
    With these the only conclusion I can think off, you are listening to people who haven't taken the time to really play the tables. Which is a wide spread problem in the industry.
    Sorcerer's Lair
    - Bones main mode is easier to complete
    *Saying it needs to be made easier is just ridiculous. It's not hard at all. Sure, before I really got to play the table I failed it several times. Now, I can't imagine not finishing it unless I really had some bad luck.
    Excalibur
    - Easier to hit the cross ramp
    *It is so easy to hit I don't understand how it will be even easier??
    Marvel: Iron Man
    - Main modes can be started easier
    - Lanes can be hit a bit easier
    - Locker drop target is now more forgiving when hit


    OK, I guess I remember most of them well.
    I really cannot understand the above fixes.
    If I had to pick the 3 most unneeded fixes you are making, because non of them is actually hard to do, I guess I'd pick:
    #1
    Excalibur
    - Easier to hit the cross ramp
    #2
    Sorcerer's Lair
    - Bones main mode is easier to complete
    #3
    Can't decide on the third one. All the ones with the word "easier" in them just make my head spin.

    Not everything needs to be easy, it's ok if some things are hard. People just need to put some effort in.
    And I am no pro. My scores are nothing special. Sure, I'm better than an average player, like in every game I play, but I never challenge the best people. Mostly because I don't feel like putting all my time into 1 game and rather play a wide selection of them.
    If your changes were for something so hard only the best players could do, OK I guess, go fix them. But you are changing things that are fine and average players can do just fine.

    I know this post wont make a difference, but I had to say it to at least have peace of mind as I did something, seeing one of my favourite games is "under attack".



    All the other fixes seem reasonable, because as you wrote, you're actually fixing a problem.
    But none of the ones I mentioned are problems.
    Don't worry. These "easier" things are very-very tiny changes. We just wanted to lower the frustration factor so you don't want to throw your controller into the display when you miss a shot for the 10th time. Believe me when I say the tables won't be easier to play in general just less frustrating, more smooth.

  19. #19

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    The Bones mode on Sorcerers Lair on Xbox one and Windows 10 was ridiculously hard. It was much easier on the earlier xbox and PS3, cause the right orbit did not working correctly. Excellent.
    Does this mean that the modes that were balanced, like Paranormal jackpot that there is a limit so you can't just spam that for a high score? And similar for the other tables that were balanced.
    Thanks for all the work. Really looking forward to all the changes.

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    Any way you could keep the camera views consistant with numbered options across all tables? When I set my veiw to #4 on Spider-man table, I expect to see that same aspect & view when I select #4 on Deadpool table. thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cebelicus View Post
    Any way you could keep the camera views consistant with numbered options across all tables? When I set my veiw to #4 on Spider-man table, I expect to see that same aspect & view when I select #4 on Deadpool table. thanks.
    That's a good suggestion, we'll consider it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cebelicus View Post
    Any way you could keep the camera views consistant with numbered options across all tables? When I set my veiw to #4 on Spider-man table, I expect to see that same aspect & view when I select #4 on Deadpool table. thanks.
    YESSSSS... always thought I was doing something wrong because they weren't all uniform!

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    Default No extra ball?

    In highest score with one ball mode. I believe one should be allowed to score extra balls since you are technically still on your first ball and achieving an extra ball takes skill and if its a table where scoring an extra ball is easy its still a level playing field. Consider it please.

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    Junior Member dok5555555's Avatar
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    Is it just me or are Bob's Burgers and Family Guy super bright?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dok5555555 View Post
    Is it just me or are Bob's Burgers and Family Guy super bright?
    Didnt really notice a brightness, issue, but did notice the balls in pinball fx3 are way more hyper realistic. Ya, I know, how that sounds. lol

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    Default Amazing

    I am blown away with these enhancements to your classic tables!

    Zen, I was skeptical. I figured FX3 was just an "upgrade" with better graphics. Turns out I was wrong. FX3 lets me play all my faves in new ways! You have created a game that is truly a worthy SEQUEL. Great enhancements and great new tables coming.

    Round of applause.
    Last edited by steven120566; 09-29-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven120566 View Post
    I am blown away with these enhancements to your classic tables!

    Zen, I was skeptical. I figured FX3 was just an "upgrade" with better graphics. Turns out I was wrong. FX3 lets me play all my faves in new ways! You have created a game that is truly a worthy SEQUEL. Great enhancements and great new tables coming.

    Round of applause.
    I agree, this is a whole new game.

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    Default Changes do improve play

    I am an "average" player. I will never be as good as VIPER. Therefore, I must say his/her criticisms of the changes may seem right to him/her, but for me, the fixes are exactly what was needed. That vertical playfield in Paranormal for example, was sooo difficult, that it was just luck if you cleared it. As well with the others deep mentions. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dok5555555 View Post
    Is it just me or are Bob's Burgers and Family Guy super bright?
    This latest PC/Steam patch seems to have removed the playfield glow/bloom and has massively improved overall frame rates.
    (Arguably it looks better without the effect too). Guess it will be pushed to consoles as soon as the patch passes MS/Sony's approval process.

    It may also improve stability. On PC I noticed the game regularly crashed when v-sync was enabled, possibly because the frame rate tanked (menu > table).

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    So far I've only really played Spider Man. What I noticed is that the J Johan Jameson loop is easier to hit
    This is a bit of a mixed bag. I found it annoying to hit in the previous versions; but now I end up hitting it more than MJ's shot. However, the rooftop is usually the more desirable target (especially when I want to start Clone Chaos - definitely not a fan of that change!)

    One general request that I have: with the bumpers being more "sticky", can there be more instances where the timer pauses when bouncing around?
    Tables completed: Ms Splosion Man, Spiderman, BioLab, Captain America, Empire Strikes Back, The Avengers, Wolverine, World War Hulk, Sorcerer's Lair, Fantastic Four, Blade, X-Men, Thor, Moon Knight, Infinity Gauntlet, Super League Football, Starfighter Assault, Han Solo
    Billionaire's Club: Spider-Man, World War Hulk, The Avengers, Sorcerer's Lair, Empire Strikes Back, Captain America, Ms. Splosion Man, Han Solo

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    hey Deep.

    Just want to say, whatever tables you've made, they are my favorites.
    Love your signature style of multiball stacking.


    *cough*
    what up with the no south park table?!
    *cough*

    :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkKodiaK View Post
    what up with the no south park table?!
    Viacom and their annoying contracts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Viacom and their annoying contracts.
    I guess they just wanted to hold that fart contest with Ubisoft.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalEther View Post
    So far I've only really played Spider Man. What I noticed is that the J Johan Jameson loop is easier to hit
    This is a bit of a mixed bag. I found it annoying to hit in the previous versions; but now I end up hitting it more than MJ's shot. However, the rooftop is usually the more desirable target (especially when I want to start Clone Chaos - definitely not a fan of that change!)

    One general request that I have: with the bumpers being more "sticky", can there be more instances where the timer pauses when bouncing around?
    I rarely miss that shot, it's about letting it roll to turn hitting the ball with the tip end of the flipper rather than center. Once you nail that shot it's actually a particularly easy shot this you can freely get both shots based on what your after with ease. I'm happy for the change though I never found it too bad previously - the Excalibur Merlin shot on the other hand... (Awesome tweak there Zen, my fave table got a lot less frustrating)

  35. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    173

    Default

    On Sorcerers Lair, the ball saver no longer activates when locking a ball.
    Tables completed: Ms Splosion Man, Spiderman, BioLab, Captain America, Empire Strikes Back, The Avengers, Wolverine, World War Hulk, Sorcerer's Lair, Fantastic Four, Blade, X-Men, Thor, Moon Knight, Infinity Gauntlet, Super League Football, Starfighter Assault, Han Solo
    Billionaire's Club: Spider-Man, World War Hulk, The Avengers, Sorcerer's Lair, Empire Strikes Back, Captain America, Ms. Splosion Man, Han Solo

  36. #36
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    10

    Default

    I fired up the Skyrim table for the first time in FX3 and I gotta say, I LOVE it when it's night time. The lighting is perfect. I don't recall it being like that in FX2 unless I'm mistaken.

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    173

    Default

    X-Men : When auto launched (after a ball save, start of multiball, etc) instead of travelling to the left inlane, the ball now arcs to the upper left flipper.
    Makes a for an easier run at the Storm cross ramp, but takes away the lined up shot up the Iceman ramp for Magnetic Frenzy.

    EDIT: it appears that the above only seems to happen during the Challenge modes. When I played a few regular games today, some launches did go to the left inlane while some others hit the outlane/inlane divider.

    The Nightcrawler orbit seems easier to hit, IMO.

    As an aside, I've hated the juiced up slingshots since I first saw them on the Return of the Jedi table. I've - to my surprise - tolerated them on most of the tables, but they really stink on this one, to the point where the table is almost ruined for me.
    Last edited by OriginalEther; 10-13-2017 at 06:58 AM.

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