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Thread: The major flaw of matchup mode (leagues)

  1. #1
    Junior Member Harest's Avatar
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    Default The major flaw of matchup mode (leagues)

    Hi,

    Some days ago i posted this message explaining an issue regarding the matchup mode / leagues. Since i was now able to try it (it was only reported to me before) and seeing how this is a major flaw to this mode imo, i think this deserver his own thread.

    To sum it up : You can manage the range of the scores by not scoring more than what's asked. And if it starts to be too high for you, simply lose as many times as necessary. It enables you to get easy scores to reach and get as much league points as you want without any difficulty, removing entirely the interest of this mode.

    Cf. the link above, an acquaintance (ranked #7 w/ 1900+ league points) told me for the previous league he didn't have higher scores than 5M +/- to beat on the Pasha table. And he was doing as i said : Not scoring more than the target, and losing here and there if needed to lower the scores. At this time i was playing normally, and i had like 700/800 league points with scores to beat from 8/10M to 20M.
    This league, i decided to try this method (always against red scores except 2 or 3 games, mainly on the Star Wars Droid table). And unfortunately it works and i assume many people are doing it. The scores increased progressively, sure. But at some point it stopped. And surprinsingly enough, at the end they even lowered a few times. Overall it almost never went above 9M. I had a few 11/13M but either beating them or losing lowered the next score i had to beat. And for the last games, like i said the scores started to lower and from 9M i had 8M / 7M and even 6M. I stopped at 2k league points as it'll probably be sufficient for this league. Here are my current scores to beat and the leaderboard when i stopped :
    20180116192952_1.jpg20180116192939_1.jpg

    For a solution i was saying in the other post :
    I think some tweaking is needed here to take higher scores depending on your position in the leaderboard for instance. Which scores to take is the problem. If all (or many of) the top players are abusing this, then the top scores in the league should be taken (no matter the rank). Otherwise the scores of the top ranked could fit.
    But if there's no "high" score, maybe some forced scores would be required, and imo an interesting but not easy solution to code would be to do an average score depending on some timed segments taken from players games. If you're capable of scoring 10M in a minute regularly but you're still against 10/12M scores, there's an issue. If you're scoring 0 / not pressing any key / pressing a key (ball locking) for an extended period of time, there's an issue. I don't know which stats are already gathered. From my understanding on the scores you've to beat, it really take near the average of what scores you're doing it seems (or the scores you beat). And any Dominition bonus will (drastically) increase the target scores. Sometimes there's like an anomaly and the red score is relatively above (the 11/13M i talked about above), but otherwise it increases slightly and stagnate (which is the issue, it should keep increasing).

    Hope you'll be able to fix this soon. I want to try to do the best scores i can, and not feeling forced to do low scores because otherwise i may have way too high scores to beat very quickly and i'll progress a lot less fastly. I insist on the "lot less" here. I don't care progressing less if i can play normally. As long as it's fair.
    Good luck !

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harest View Post
    Hi,

    Some days ago i posted this message explaining an issue regarding the matchup mode / leagues. Since i was now able to try it (it was only reported to me before) and seeing how this is a major flaw to this mode imo, i think this deserver his own thread.

    To sum it up : You can manage the range of the scores by not scoring more than what's asked. And if it starts to be too high for you, simply lose as many times as necessary. It enables you to get easy scores to reach and get as much league points as you want without any difficulty, removing entirely the interest of this mode.

    Cf. the link above, an acquaintance (ranked #7 w/ 1900+ league points) told me for the previous league he didn't have higher scores than 5M +/- to beat on the Pasha table. And he was doing as i said : Not scoring more than the target, and losing here and there if needed to lower the scores. At this time i was playing normally, and i had like 700/800 league points with scores to beat from 8/10M to 20M.
    This league, i decided to try this method (always against red scores except 2 or 3 games, mainly on the Star Wars Droid table). And unfortunately it works and i assume many people are doing it. The scores increased progressively, sure. But at some point it stopped. And surprinsingly enough, at the end they even lowered a few times. Overall it almost never went above 9M. I had a few 11/13M but either beating them or losing lowered the next score i had to beat. And for the last games, like i said the scores started to lower and from 9M i had 8M / 7M and even 6M. I stopped at 2k league points as it'll probably be sufficient for this league. Here are my current scores to beat and the leaderboard when i stopped :
    20180116192952_1.jpg20180116192939_1.jpg

    For a solution i was saying in the other post :

    But if there's no "high" score, maybe some forced scores would be required, and imo an interesting but not easy solution to code would be to do an average score depending on some timed segments taken from players games. If you're capable of scoring 10M in a minute regularly but you're still against 10/12M scores, there's an issue. If you're scoring 0 / not pressing any key / pressing a key (ball locking) for an extended period of time, there's an issue. I don't know which stats are already gathered. From my understanding on the scores you've to beat, it really take near the average of what scores you're doing it seems (or the scores you beat). And any Dominition bonus will (drastically) increase the target scores. Sometimes there's like an anomaly and the red score is relatively above (the 11/13M i talked about above), but otherwise it increases slightly and stagnate (which is the issue, it should keep increasing).

    Hope you'll be able to fix this soon. I want to try to do the best scores i can, and not feeling forced to do low scores because otherwise i may have way too high scores to beat very quickly and i'll progress a lot less fastly. I insist on the "lot less" here. I don't care progressing less if i can play normally. As long as it's fair.
    Good luck !
    Ya, its kind of a wreck of a system and winning or succeeding in getting to the next round based on playing in a style that is contrary to pinball, which is to say trying to achieve the highest score vs what the system currently is set up for where succeeding means trying to just get the lowest score possible past the minimum score to win. It's a good add to pinball fx3, but it needs to be retooled, and, I think they are doing that right now. We will see what the future holds. I think they might impress us, until we figure out another way to manipulate the system and just let all the balls drain. The other day on a single table I pushed that multiplyer thingy at just the right second and got 3 and 1/2 billion points. Ya, that happened, so this game has a few issues, but its only been out a month and 4 days. Let's both be patient and see if they can make it what we all want.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  3. #3
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    Yes it appears you can grind through to get as many points as possible (no skill) to be highly ranked in Matchup. Additionally, as you stated, you can manipulate the low/middle/high scores that you have to beat in order to make it easier to rack up 40's quickly with little to no effort. Probably the most rudimentary scoring system that can be had. Definitely needs some tweaks.

    I have to say, tournaments are kind of discouraging too. On the PS4 most tournaments have less than 10 people playing them . Scrolling down through the list it is discouraging to see some amazingly high scores that you know there is no chance to even come close. Too bad there couldn't be some tweaks for that as well, like pairing you up based on skill level.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadMamaJama View Post
    Yes it appears you can grind through to get as many points as possible (no skill) to be highly ranked in Matchup. Additionally, as you stated, you can manipulate the low/middle/high scores that you have to beat in order to make it easier to rack up 40's quickly with little to no effort. Probably the most rudimentary scoring system that can be had. Definitely needs some tweaks.

    I have to say, tournaments are kind of discouraging too. On the PS4 most tournaments have less than 10 people playing them . Scrolling down through the list it is discouraging to see some amazingly high scores that you know there is no chance to even come close. Too bad there couldn't be some tweaks for that as well, like pairing you up based on skill level.
    Looking at it from outside the box, so to speak. What is the harm? You can literally do that match up mode all day long, every single day and play it for hours upon the day and never amass the xp that I can get in 10 minutes just by playing normally. Seriously, in 10 minutes on a good game I can make 5 billion points which is roughly 40 thousand xp. So, letting the peeps think they are achieving something, occupying their time, so to speak while others just generate xp is a win/win to me. Ya, they got a badge that says says 4 after spending mind numbing hours doing the same poo over and over and over and not even playing the game as it is intended, and by that I mean trying to get the highest points and they are ranked 40 or less. I mean their xp ranking. When Zen updates the system and changes the ranking system they will still be ranked low and the people who actually play and try to get high points will be much higher in rank. I don't care about no stinking badges.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  5. #5

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    Just "add friends",by scrolling through the league's,and you can then "single player"any table you choose,rather than hit a low tournament perhaps?

    Yes...I'm a sad Loner!

  6. #6
    Community Representative hajdu's Avatar
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    Hey,
    we are aware of this "issue" with the match up mode, and as cantankerous mentioned, we are brainstorming a lot about the update/rework of this mode so it can grow up to the expectations in the future.
    Right now it's uncertain what will be the final version but we know that it has to be modified a little to serve its purpose as satisfying as we want it to!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hajdu View Post
    Hey,
    we are aware of this "issue" with the match up mode, and as cantankerous mentioned, we are brainstorming a lot about the update/rework of this mode so it can grow up to the expectations in the future.
    Right now it's uncertain what will be the final version but we know that it has to be modified a little to serve its purpose as satisfying as we want it to!
    I just got to the next matchup tier yesterday to find out that I don't own any of the new 4 tables on this week's. I have 17 tables, which I know isn't a lot, but it sucks that I spent all that time trying to make it higher and I'm stuck either buying more tables or dropping a tier and hoping at least one table next matchup there will be one I own. I do plan on buying more tables eventually. I just bought $10 for 3 tables a couple days ago.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Harest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hajdu View Post
    Hey,
    we are aware of this "issue" with the match up mode, and as cantankerous mentioned, we are brainstorming a lot about the update/rework of this mode so it can grow up to the expectations in the future.
    Right now it's uncertain what will be the final version but we know that it has to be modified a little to serve its purpose as satisfying as we want it to!
    Thanks for the answer. And again good luck. It sure isn't a simple problem to solve. And not the most priority one .

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadMamaJama View Post
    I just got to the next matchup tier yesterday to find out that I don't own any of the new 4 tables on this week's. I have 17 tables, which I know isn't a lot, but it sucks that I spent all that time trying to make it higher and I'm stuck either buying more tables or dropping a tier and hoping at least one table next matchup there will be one I own. I do plan on buying more tables eventually. I just bought $10 for 3 tables a couple days ago.
    Wait until you have 58 tables,and there's still ONE that you haven't bought or didn't want anyway...

    That hurts! 😕

  10. #10

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    Now this week,you pick the highest target score,and if you don't beat it,it STILL GOES UP!?
    So now the highest target just fluctuates like a bouncing ball,and YES,I've done a bit to keep my self in the league,then not bothering to get a high position...
    Praying for an update soon....sigh

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveValek View Post
    Wait until you have 58 tables,and there's still ONE that you haven't bought or didn't want anyway...

    That hurts! 😕


    or 2 tables....ugh

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