View Poll Results: Are Zen's Table Becoming Too Easy?

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  • Yes. They're dumbing down their tables and the scores are inflated to make everyone feel good.

    4 40.00%
  • No. Your skills are becoming so good that you're able to score crazy-high points.

    6 60.00%
  • Maybe. What was the question again?

    0 0%
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Thread: Are Zen Making Their Tables Too Easy?

  1. #1

    Default Are Zen Making Their Tables Too Easy?

    I've got a question for the good people who populate these forums. Do you think Zen is starting to cater to the handheld (Nintendo Switch) crowd and making easy, high-scoring tables to make them feel good about themselves? My first games on the 2 new Star Wars: The Last Jedi pack tables (Xbox One X) garnered me 100's of mil each without having read the table guides or shooting for any particular strategy or missions. They feel really easy and beginner-friendly.

    Is this a deliberate attempt on Zen's part to cater to the new audience? The Nintendo Switch gamers that aren't as hardcore into Zen FX games, perhaps? What does everyone think?
    Last edited by LaserFokus; 04-19-2018 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Syntax

  2. #2
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    I don't know the reason behind this, but there seems to be a leaning towards easier trophies/achievements. Honestly, I don't really care about high scores (unless there is a trophy attached to it). But most of the harder trophies didn't make their way into Pinball FX3 from Zen Pinball 2. I'm not complaining, but getting 100% trophies on Pinball FX3 is much easier than doing it on Zen Pinball 2.

    2 tables in The Last Jedi pack have trophies for reaching the wizard mode and completing all story missions, but they are certainly doable in a short time unlike some other wizard modes of Star Wars tables. I got both trophies within an hour and it felt awesome

    I like a fair challenge, but I don't like it when they are insanely difficult. So I don't know the cause, but making them easier is not a bad thing for me, if that is a deliberate attempt.

  3. #3
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    There you could be right. I also feel that the tables get easier and easier. But it is a general trend in videogames. Maybe the switch console is also a reason for this trend.

  4. #4

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    I think the achievements certainly were to easy especially on the the new tables as I got them on the first couple of games (still not unlockable yet on Xbox). As for scoring I don't think it matters what the scores are as everyone is still playing at the same scoring level. I suppose high scoring does look good for newcomers as scoring millions probably does feel better than scoring thousands but at the end of the day you still end up in the same place on the leaderboards.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tech101's Avatar
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    I dont even know where to start with this topic.

    First of all Star Wars and Marvel are not even available to Switch owners and we dont know if we're ever getting them.

    Second of all Zen has been making tables for Nintendo owners since the 3ds and first year of the Wii U so the Switch is nothing new to past Nintendo Zen owners.

    Third I'm taking a back that Nintendo players are not hard-core. Ive been playing Zen mostly and only want to play on Nintendo systems but ive logged on over 2000 hours in the last 6 years. I love my pinball and Zen the most.

    Fourth Zen has been doing pretty much the same formula for years now. When ever they release a 3 table pack for instance one is easy, the second is harder, and the third is harder yet with lower scoring. Just look at the JP table, Bethesda, Aliens, Balls of Glory, and Universal packs as they all fit in this formula. Can't speak for any recent SW pack because I haven't had the luxury of being able to own them. (Fix that Zen please).

    Lastly, so what if they're easy or not, most still have to learn the tables and figure out how to get the best score no matter how you look at it. The leader boards will still look the same regardless.

  6. #6

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    That whole topic is incorrect. I would suggest everyone reading Tech101's post as everything is well exlained. Also, you are all invited in #HynaGang tournaments to let us see how easy all these tables are for you.

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    Hm, okay i will accept this challenge. 😀 And i still belive: the main missions have become more fun for beginners. Is it not more difficult to play on the switch than a standard console? Therefore, a lesser degree of difficulty would make sense. I may not be open-mindet, but have prejudices against nitendo-players (mainly because of their game-lineup, which has above average many just4fun-titles).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentanick View Post
    Hm, okay i will accept this challenge. 😀 And i still belive: the main missions have become more fun for beginners. Is it not more difficult to play on the switch than a standard console? Therefore, a lesser degree of difficulty would make sense. I may not be open-mindet, but have prejudices against nitendo-players (mainly because of their game-lineup, which has above average many just4fun-titles).
    Give me my pro controller and it's no more different then any other console. Now the handheld part currently only runs at 30fps and it doesn't make it hard to play just less fun because the frame rate can't keep up with the ball nearly as well as when docked.

    Yes some Nintendo games are easy but many will kick anybody's butt lol. Try Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze or Zelda Breath of the Wild and then tell me Nintendo games are easy.

  9. #9
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    Forgot that the tables are also released for smartphones. Based on my own experience, i am sure that is more difficult.
    I tried Aliens vs. Pinball on the Android. I dit not manage anything.
    The Last Jedi gave me a better feeling. I spent totally 4 Franks to test this!
    500'000 people bought this game (only the star wars basic-app).
    I think this is reason enaugh for ZEN to make their games Adroid/Apple friendly and therefore easier.
    Because everyone likes to complete missions in a game.
    And i also read the feetback to the (old) Marvel-Tables on Android. There are many who think, that the tables are too difficult...
    Last edited by Pentanick; 04-22-2018 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Focus on Smartphone

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    Maybe i should rethink my opinion about switch owners again. The new guilty ones are the smartphone owners. Sort colored stones and fruits. Luckily not many of them are there. Cough.

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    #slm
    Last edited by JaySTeeY; 04-19-2018 at 09:44 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserFokus View Post
    I've got a question for the good people who populate these forums. Do you think Zen is starting to cater to the handheld (Nintendo Switch) crowd and making easy, high-scoring tables to make them feel good about themselves? My first games on the 2 new Star Wars: The Last Jedi pack tables (Xbox One X) garnered me 100's of mil each without having read the table guides or shooting for any particular strategy or missions. They feel really easy and beginner-friendly.
    What traits do you use to generalise the Nintendo Switch "crowd"? Wouldn't "easy, high-scoring tables" be just catering to everyone equally?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserFokus View Post
    Is this a deliberate attempt on Zen's part to cater to the new audience? The Nintendo Switch gamers that aren't as hardcore into Zen FX games, perhaps? What does everyone think?
    Please name a few tables and what you consider to be non-"hardcore" scores, for curiosity's sake. As a Switch player, I'm very interested.

  13. #13
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    I personally think that most, "hardcore" scores are achieved by those who know the fundamental basics like getting the free balls, activating kick backs, knowing what shoots randomly drain it down the center and how to keep that from occurring. Maxing out your multipliers. Some of the hardcore scores, at least the tables I excel on are what I would consider easy tables, but maybe that is because when a table set or trio comes out I will only play one table till I post a score in the top 5 and if that score is close to number 4 I will keep trying and so on until I post a multi billion score. So for me to classify a table as being easy is maybe just because I will play it several hundred times and learn every nuance of the game and go to youtube and study videos posted by those better than me, so maybe easy is just subjective. But in reality I think, and, again, I can only speak for myself, but many tables are easily exploited and easily grinded over and over again, and ya, some purists would think that is not fun, but to me just randomly shooting the ball and not always going for the thing that yields the most points is just a waste of time.

    But if the actual question is, are the tables easier now compared to past tables I can only tell you v12 is one of the original tables and sure its hard now after two physics changes to the engine and now seamlessly running ramps and getting free balls takes a v12 master, but when it first came out, dude I could get 3 free balls on every ball and didnt even have the highest score (top 5 probably) but could get billions of points. Just by running the ramps.

    Anyway, just my opinion.............................now how do I vote?
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    "This poll is closed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaySTeeY View Post
    "This poll is closed"
    Huh? Im kinda of lost. The poll was closed and that is not why I am not able to figure it out? Or you just claim it is closed............I forgot the quote marks.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    Yes, the poll itself is officially closed. Look in the upper RH corner of the results window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaySTeeY View Post
    Yes, the poll itself is officially closed. Look in the upper RH corner of the results window.
    Awwww, my bad. I used to actually moderate a forum like this and didnt notice that. Thanks.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantankerous-- View Post
    Awwww, my bad. I used to actually moderate a forum like this and didnt notice that. Thanks.
    I know, the idea that I could actually ever moderate a forum like this that had 30,000 followers with my brash tongue seems horrible. lol, but I did, for two years. It was macromedia flash and I was pretty good at it. Ya, I know it's old, but I am too.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Tech101's Avatar
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    I didn't see the poll either and we all know how I would've voted lol.
    Proud member of the Hyna Gang! Keeping pinball alive on the Wii U!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech101 View Post
    I didn't see the poll either and we all know how I would've voted lol.
    Just so you know, and it dont matter, cause I dont really know you, but I do like you, and I know when I was booted I was an ass, but I was really hoping they would make an update that would define those like us who play all the time and those who just play casually and they, Zen opted for the easy out. They did. They all sat around a board room one day and put in what was important and thought about what would cost money and thought about all the android users and easy cheese puffs and wondered what it would be like to make it a level one hundred or one thousand when someone already had 19 million xp..................and ya, they could have told me 3 months in advance that farming your xp was not going to be good cause were gonna make it so anyone can go from level 40 to level 50 in 3 hours. For the record I did it in 2 hours and 15 minutes. So, ya, I was a little butthurt, even though I knew they were going to do it, It still hurt, cause I felt betrayed. They could have told me anytime. Said, hey, stop wasting your time. If we do this no matter how easy were going to reset it so everyone has a fair shot and I would have stopped. So, when they updated, ya, I was kind of butthurt over it. Cause I have every table. I have supported this company from day one on mutiple accounts on this computer with names I can no longer remember, but been here forever. Wasnt butthurt I got booted. I deserved it, but they failed to post an adiquate update to the one thing I asked them for and everyday you see more and more people being level 50. It's disgusting to me. I wanted it to be the way to distinquish the people who actually play this game over and over and over and over and over and over again. And its just the thing we all will be soon. So ya, I was kind of disgusted and disgusting in the way I replied and butthurt over it. Cause they didnt see it coming, and its coming, you can already see it.
    Last edited by cantankerous--; 04-27-2018 at 01:46 AM.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    And I dont want to press more on the point.................I know I was vulgar, but Im xmarine not xboyscout and I want those who champion the fight to actually not just fight for dollars. Pinball is all about the highest score. In all venues and now they have just made it easy for anyone to achieve level 50. I will post videos for any of you to do it within 3 hours if you want and just show how lame achieving level 50 is and then you can just sit there like me with 5 number ones a handful of less than 5's and a bootload of less than number 10's and see how meaningless it is.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    Cause in the way they made this update they made working and effort and trying and doing it over and over and over again meaningless.................................that's why I was so butthurt over it. Cause they could have just told me months ago how easy they were going to make it and quit farming your xp, and they didnt.......................so that's why I was so upset.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Tech101's Avatar
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    One thing we both have in common is a passion for Zen pinball. My overreaction wasn't much different then yours. I've been upset at Zen a number of times especially being on the Nintendo side of things but no matter how upset I get I keep pouring hours into these tables.

    Now if I can get my Marvel and SW tables on the Switch I have about $80 to put into those!!

  24. #24
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    It's always amazing for me that people have such different ideas about things

    For me, I really don't care about xp or level or high scores (edit: unless there is a trophy attached to them lol). Only trophies/achievements for me. I usually tilt the table on purpose after I get the trophy.

    But I can relate to the people who care about it, and I hope Zen will remove the level cap and make the gaps so much bigger to reach higher levels.

    Tables getting easier is no big deal though imo. If they are getting easier, they are getting easier for everyone and this wouldn't effect the leaderboards if one cares about it.
    Last edited by emboliformis; 04-27-2018 at 08:25 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by emboliformis View Post
    It's always amazing for me that people have such different ideas about things

    For me, I really don't care about xp or level or high scores (edit: unless there is a trophy attached to them lol). Only trophies/achievements for me. I usually tilt the table on purpose after I get the trophy.

    But I can relate to the people who care about it, and I hope Zen will remove the level cap and make the gaps so much bigger to reach higher levels.

    Tables getting easier is no big deal though imo. If they are getting easier, they are getting easier for everyone and this wouldn't effect the leaderboards if one cares about it.
    You're right. No matter how difficult or easy the tables are it will never change the leaderboards IMO, because those at the top just are a different breed than the casual player. Not saying just having a game with a mate or friend isnt fun, but those at the top put in hours and hours and hours and know how to keep that ball alive. They know exactly how the ball will bounce off of the bumper, the trajectory of the bounce and where it will go, and know how to bump the table to insure the ball will remain in play. Not claiming I could do this on many tables. To be honest only about 6, but on those six tables very few would have the time or desire to play me, but ya, easy table is subjective depending on your level of skill.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  26. #26
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    For me, the xp was merely a way of distinguishing the casual player from the determined and elite, and for those level 40 or lower who place in the top 5 on a leaderboard, more acclaim, that they without putting in all the hours bested the best. How else to distinguish one compared to another, and now because of the simplistic level cap soon everyone will be the same level and my intention will have been completely overlooked. It was my goal, apparently my singular goal cause few seem to care about it, and I was passionate about it, having played zen tables for years now, but oh well, it is what it is.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  27. #27
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    You know, back in the early 80's having a long history of providing accolades for teams that finished in the top 3 and awarding trophies to those respectively someone said hey, what about the other teams who tried hard and just didnt make it. We need to conceive a trophy to award all of them. So they made up awards. Participation awards to make them all feel like their effort was not in vain and now because of this idea that we all are winners were left with a snowflake society of millennials who feel entitled to the award or the accolade for achieving sub par greatness. Let's make em all equal. Let's make them all feel good about themselves. Ya, there was once a day where greatness was appreciated by what you achieved and by how you stood higher than those who lost the battle and to me in pinball terms, I wanted something similar, but the powers that be, in their divine wisdom, which is to say their millennial wisdom, to make us all feel like winners, well, we just have to accept that, because that is what society has become now, a place where even the losers are winners in a made up world, where everyone is a winner.
    Last edited by cantankerous--; 04-27-2018 at 09:42 AM.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  28. #28
    Senior Member hunter328's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantankerous-- View Post
    You know, back in the early 80's having a long history of providing accolades for teams that finished in the top 3 and awarding trophies to those respectively someone said hey, what about the other teams who tried hard and just didnt make it. We need to conceive a trophy to award all of them. So they made up awards. Participation awards to make them all feel like their effort was not in vain and now because of this idea that we all are winners were left with a snowflake society of millennials who feel entitled to the award or the accolade for achieving sub par greatness. Let's make em all equal. Let's make them all feel good about themselves. Ya, there was once a day where greatness was appreciated by what you achieved and by how you stood higher than those who lost the battle and to me in pinball terms, I wanted something similar, but the powers that be, in their divine wisdom, which is to say their millennial wisdom, to make us all feel like winners, well, we just have to accept that, because that is what society has become now, a place where even the losers are winners in a made up world, where everyone is a winner.
    I really don’t get this at all. Can’t the leaderboards, especially the proscore one (or whatever it’s called now) do for you what you were hoping the XP level would do? It would seem to me that would be an even more accurate form of expressing hardcoreness or whatever it is. Even if their was no level cap you’d still have players (for reasons I’ll never understand) spamming stuff just to level up, which basically makes it a leaderboard to see who has the most free time, as apposed to the scores leaderboards which show real skill.
    Plus, just because Zen has a different vision of what XP level represents or how it’s gained doesn’t mean the things you’ve said apply to them. You’re ascribing situations based upon your own beliefs onto Zen then assuming they share those views when it’s obvious just by how differently you and Zen view XP level that that’s way off base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter328 View Post
    I really don’t get this at all. Can’t the leaderboards, especially the proscore one (or whatever it’s called now) do for you what you were hoping the XP level would do? It would seem to me that would be an even more accurate form of expressing hardcoreness or whatever it is. Even if their was no level cap you’d still have players (for reasons I’ll never understand) spamming stuff just to level up, which basically makes it a leaderboard to see who has the most free time, as apposed to the scores leaderboards which show real skill.
    Plus, just because Zen has a different vision of what XP level represents or how it’s gained doesn’t mean the things you’ve said apply to them. You’re ascribing situations based upon your own beliefs onto Zen then assuming they share those views when it’s obvious just by how differently you and Zen view XP level that that’s way off base.
    True, and I respect you for your intelligent input, but they knew what I thought, I mean I didnt just say what I was doing, I posted images of me at 5 million xp and 10 million and so on, and they knew months in advance what I was asking for and could have easily just said, hey were not on the same level, you're wasting your time. We want to do it this way, but they kept saying ya, its coming and your going to be happy. And it was much less than my happy day with Fonzie. Also those other things you talk about accumulate your other friends who play the same tables. I want something that distiguishes me, without friends help and xp seemed to be the thing. Im xmarine. I know it means nothing here, but army of one. I know that is an army cry, but I dont want an accolade that is something that requires I have two hundred friends. I want something that shows I do it by myself. Its a moot point now, and I accept what has occurred.

    It's no big deal anymore. I know, they are wanting to make their games all inclusive, so that all of you can get your participation awards. They did as I asked by making the ranking go up from max level 40 to level 50. I did it in 2 hours and a half or their abouts after wasting 2 months time wasting time to max my xp up to almost 20 million, and they just took that all away when they could have told me at anytime. I kind of think I spent lots of money buying every table and they made me think my idea was important, and in the back of my head having been here since the beginning that they would make it as easy for everyone that they possibly could, and ya, when they did it, and I was openly butthurt over it. I got offended and said hateful things, and as a result got banned for a short while and now dont give a poo. I tried to make a difference and soon most of the people who are elite will be the same as those just willing to put in the two and a half hours and we will all look like the same. Oh well, this is the world we live in now where developers have to reach out to everyone and not give a poo about those who actually distinguish themselves.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  30. #30
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    I plan, assuming time is given to post a video that will show how any regular person can be equal to me and others that are supposedly elite players and make you all level 50 within 3 hours. Just to show how the rank means nothing and I wanted it to mean something.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  31. #31

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    I've just made level 50, and as great as it feels I know myself my skills are no where near those of some of my friends who are also level 50... I want my skill to be reflected in my level etc but, just like the league, all it takes is spare time and grinding which I believe means hammering away rather than gameplay. I'm currently having to "grind" to get myself in the green to go up a league which is ridiculous as little skill is involved and there is zero joy for me. I'm also from the generation that plaited real tables in the eighties and, as Cantankerous said, it really is all about the high score....

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantankerous-- View Post
    True, and I respect you for your intelligent input, but they knew what I thought, I mean I didnt just say what I was doing, I posted images of me at 5 million xp and 10 million and so on, and they knew months in advance what I was asking for and could have easily just said, hey were not on the same level, you're wasting your time. We want to do it this way, but they kept saying ya, its coming and your going to be happy. And it was much less than my happy day with Fonzie. Also those other things you talk about accumulate your other friends who play the same tables. I want something that distiguishes me, without friends help and xp seemed to be the thing. Im xmarine. I know it means nothing here, but army of one. I know that is an army cry, but I dont want an accolade that is something that requires I have two hundred friends. I want something that shows I do it by myself. Its a moot point now, and I accept what has occurred.

    It's no big deal anymore. I know, they are wanting to make their games all inclusive, so that all of you can get your participation awards. They did as I asked by making the ranking go up from max level 40 to level 50. I did it in 2 hours and a half or their abouts after wasting 2 months time wasting time to max my xp up to almost 20 million, and they just took that all away when they could have told me at anytime. I kind of think I spent lots of money buying every table and they made me think my idea was important, and in the back of my head having been here since the beginning that they would make it as easy for everyone that they possibly could, and ya, when they did it, and I was openly butthurt over it. I got offended and said hateful things, and as a result got banned for a short while and now dont give a poo. I tried to make a difference and soon most of the people who are elite will be the same as those just willing to put in the two and a half hours and we will all look like the same. Oh well, this is the world we live in now where developers have to reach out to everyone and not give a poo about those who actually distinguish themselves.
    On the proscore Leaderboard, I’m not talking about the one that tracks your friends but the one that tracks how you’ve done personally across all the tables. That one is just you and IMO is the most accurate telling of who the best of the best are.
    Maybe I’m missing your point on the XP level thing, but to me, even if they removed the level cap it would still not reflect what your asking for (and what I think the proscore lb does). It’d just be the ultimate participation award, something you hate, because it awards those who basically have the most time to play the game. Anyone of any skill level could achieve whatever level they want if they just put in enough time. I’m like you when it comes to giving every kid a trophy just so they won’t feel bad. I’m only 43, I don’t consider myself a cantankerous old man yet, but we see eye to eye on that, and to me something that says Player X is better than I am at PBFX3 when he might not have a higher score than I do on a single table but he has 8 hours a day to play isn’t reflective of anything worth aiming for in the first place.
    Check out the leaderboard I’m talking about. I know on ZP2 it was called Proscore, but it might have a different name now. I think there’s two, one for all your table highscores in classic mode and one for the new mode using wizard powers. On ZP2 that was always my go to indicator for how I stacked up to everyone else. And just because we’re talking about it, before the soccer table screwed it up and suddenly people had like 8 or 9 more tables than I did, I was always hovering around between 10th and 13th. I haven’t put nearly the time into PBFX3 that I did into ZP2 and have yet to even play all the tables in the new version even though I own them all, so I’m sure I’m close to the bottom as of now.
    Anyway, hope that lb idea works for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter328 View Post
    On the proscore Leaderboard, I’m not talking about the one that tracks your friends but the one that tracks how you’ve done personally across all the tables. That one is just you and IMO is the most accurate telling of who the best of the best are.
    Maybe I’m missing your point on the XP level thing, but to me, even if they removed the level cap it would still not reflect what your asking for (and what I think the proscore lb does). It’d just be the ultimate participation award, something you hate, because it awards those who basically have the most time to play the game. Anyone of any skill level could achieve whatever level they want if they just put in enough time. I’m like you when it comes to giving every kid a trophy just so they won’t feel bad. I’m only 43, I don’t consider myself a cantankerous old man yet, but we see eye to eye on that, and to me something that says Player X is better than I am at PBFX3 when he might not have a higher score than I do on a single table but he has 8 hours a day to play isn’t reflective of anything worth aiming for in the first place.
    Check out the leaderboard I’m talking about. I know on ZP2 it was called Proscore, but it might have a different name now. I think there’s two, one for all your table highscores in classic mode and one for the new mode using wizard powers. On ZP2 that was always my go to indicator for how I stacked up to everyone else. And just because we’re talking about it, before the soccer table screwed it up and suddenly people had like 8 or 9 more tables than I did, I was always hovering around between 10th and 13th. I haven’t put nearly the time into PBFX3 that I did into ZP2 and have yet to even play all the tables in the new version even though I own them all, so I’m sure I’m close to the bottom as of now.
    Anyway, hope that lb idea works for you.
    What it basically comes down to is he wants something showing on his profile to show how good a player is. The pro score you have to go looking for while his tag would be seen by more people on the leader boards. Problem is you could raise the level to 1000 tomorrow and it still will only be timed played. If I saw someone at a 1000 I would think wow, they must play 24/7 and that's all.

    Splatoon did it sorta right though. Click on a player and you see their ranking on each online mode and they carry that with them everywhere. I believe that's what hes looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech101 View Post
    What it basically comes down to is he wants something showing on his profile to show how good a player is. The pro score you have to go looking for while his tag would be seen by more people on the leader boards. Problem is you could raise the level to 1000 tomorrow and it still will only be timed played. If I saw someone at a 1000 I would think wow, they must play 24/7 and that's all.

    Splatoon did it sorta right though. Click on a player and you see their ranking on each online mode and they carry that with them everywhere. I believe that's what hes looking for.
    Dude its like you can read my mind, up until the point about the guy who just spends hours a day playing pinball. They're are tables you can max out xp pretty easy and not only that dude, you know I got a handful of number 1's and a buttload of top 5's and so on. I'm not saying Im special. I have friends way better than me on many tables, but on the handful out of the 77 I kick ass. I played a tournament this morning on marvels women of power and after getting a billion I just drained my other two balls plus the 3 xtra balls I earned, just cause I got bored and dont feel like spending all day playing to get a tiny amount of points no matter how high my score is, so now I just do as little as I think is needed to win. I used to at least get xp for it, and now nothing. They mucked it all up, cause I guess my directions for them were too complicated. What is the point now? They added some stupid poo to the menus and the classic mode which seemed to only be mentioned a few weeks before the update, they were all over that and implemented it, but my idea. No, not exactly. Isn't the amount of points you earn based on how you do sort of the way every other game works?
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter328 View Post
    On the proscore Leaderboard, I’m not talking about the one that tracks your friends but the one that tracks how you’ve done personally across all the tables. That one is just you and IMO is the most accurate telling of who the best of the best are.
    Maybe I’m missing your point on the XP level thing, but to me, even if they removed the level cap it would still not reflect what your asking for (and what I think the proscore lb does). It’d just be the ultimate participation award, something you hate, because it awards those who basically have the most time to play the game. Anyone of any skill level could achieve whatever level they want if they just put in enough time. I’m like you when it comes to giving every kid a trophy just so they won’t feel bad. I’m only 43, I don’t consider myself a cantankerous old man yet, but we see eye to eye on that, and to me something that says Player X is better than I am at PBFX3 when he might not have a higher score than I do on a single table but he has 8 hours a day to play isn’t reflective of anything worth aiming for in the first place.
    Check out the leaderboard I’m talking about. I know on ZP2 it was called Proscore, but it might have a different name now. I think there’s two, one for all your table highscores in classic mode and one for the new mode using wizard powers. On ZP2 that was always my go to indicator for how I stacked up to everyone else. And just because we’re talking about it, before the soccer table screwed it up and suddenly people had like 8 or 9 more tables than I did, I was always hovering around between 10th and 13th. I haven’t put nearly the time into PBFX3 that I did into ZP2 and have yet to even play all the tables in the new version even though I own them all, so I’m sure I’m close to the bottom as of now.
    Anyway, hope that lb idea works for you.
    I appreciate your comment then I went into pinballfx3 and looked and had no idea what the hell a pro score or whatever you called it, and assume mine would suck cause I only have played like 10 different tables since its release, cause I literally will play a table hundreds of times until I learn every nuance of it and then I wake up and find Im no longer #1 and have to spend time trying to get it back cause I dont like being number two, so I have a shit score I would assume If you could tell me where that pro score thing is.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cantankerous-- View Post
    I appreciate your comment then I went into pinballfx3 and looked and had no idea what the hell a pro score or whatever you called it, and assume mine would suck cause I only have played like 10 different tables since its release, cause I literally will play a table hundreds of times until I learn every nuance of it and then I wake up and find Im no longer #1 and have to spend time trying to get it back cause I dont like being number two, so I have a shit score I would assume If you could tell me where that pro score thing is.
    That one is easy. It's the score based over all the tables you own. Say there's 77 tables and yo do get up to 1000 points per table. To keep it simple if you had the number one score on every table you would have 77,000 points. Now I believe even having scores in the top 5 of every table you would still score like 76,979 or something abouts which would more then likely keep you as the number one player in the world. If you have tables not played you just subtract 1000.

    So basically it takes your placement over all the tables and gives you a number based off that. With 77,000 being the highest. When looking at the high score for any table scroll to the right to find your pro score. Mine is not the highest of the Switch players because I've yet to play about 7 to 8 of my tables and don't even own one. I am curious where I would be if I just dropped a quick score on those tables I've yet played. I bet I would be in the top 5 by the end of the week if I did really want to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech101 View Post
    That one is easy. It's the score based over all the tables you own. Say there's 77 tables and yo do get up to 1000 points per table. To keep it simple if you had the number one score on every table you would have 77,000 points. Now I believe even having scores in the top 5 of every table you would still score like 76,979 or something abouts which would more then likely keep you as the number one player in the world. If you have tables not played you just subtract 1000.

    So basically it takes your placement over all the tables and gives you a number based off that. With 77,000 being the highest. When looking at the high score for any table scroll to the right to find your pro score. Mine is not the highest of the Switch players because I've yet to play about 7 to 8 of my tables and don't even own one. I am curious where I would be if I just dropped a quick score on those tables I've yet played. I bet I would be in the top 5 by the end of the week if I did really want to.
    Oh, I suck then. 77 tables and Im masterful on about 7? I really would suck on that score. I played the Aliens tournament today and tried my best and that was after running my bonus multiplyer up to level two and I got like 1,550th out of 1700. Ya, I suck at many tables. Cause I dont find them interesting and I spend so much time trying to keep my scores on the tables I am good at.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cantankerous-- View Post
    Oh, I suck then. 77 tables and Im masterful on about 7? I really would suck on that score. I played the Aliens tournament today and tried my best and that was after running my bonus multiplyer up to level two and I got like 1,550th out of 1700. Ya, I suck at many tables. Cause I dont find them interesting and I spend so much time trying to keep my scores on the tables I am good at.
    What you should try is setting a goal that's small then work your way up. Say top 100 on the tables you don't like, top 50 on tables you struggle with, and top 10/5 on your favorite tables plus keep your number ones. You would have a really good pro score if you have top 100's on all tables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech101 View Post
    What you should try is setting a goal that's small then work your way up. Say top 100 on the tables you don't like, top 50 on tables you struggle with, and top 10/5 on your favorite tables plus keep your number ones. You would have a really good pro score if you have top 100's on all tables.
    Im not in it for being the best. I just like having fun, but did want that xp that I got for playing. I wasnt trying to screw anyone, but I have tables I play that award mass amounts of points, but no big deal. I just thought it was a way, like you said of posting a public display that recognized those who put in the time and played a lot, but in doing so amassed lots of points. Its not big deal, I cant see myself pouring weeks and weeks into games I dont really get into. I have still to play that other new star wars game 3 times.................I played it a couple of times. It seemed kind of weird to me and thats pretty much how I am. I will play it a few times and If I dont feel good about it forget about it. Just how I am. I got the high score on the last Jedi, I should probably start trying the other table, but it seemed weird to me, so I doubt it.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

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    Are the superscores over all gamesystems? 77 tables? I have just 75 of 75 on xbox?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentanick View Post
    Are the superscores over all gamesystems? 77 tables? I have just 75 of 75 on xbox?
    I was just using that as an example. I'm not sure how many tables are on the other console since I game on the Switch. We only have 36.

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    The difficult of tables... the difficult of the main-missions is for me representative. And how long i can keep the balls in the game. Too easy is a table when i can activate the wizzardmode 2, 3 times, when the game nearly never ends. Yes the pro will have allways more points... But the game gets booring. And the new starwars tables are kind of this. My opinion.

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    Thx tech101. Okay, superscore over all systems makes than no sense today..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pentanick View Post
    The difficult of tables... the difficult of the main-missions is for me representative. And how long i can keep the balls in the game. Too easy is a table when i can activate the wizzardmode 2, 3 times, when the game nearly never ends. Yes the pro will have allways more points... But the game gets booring. And the new starwars tables are kind of this. My opinion.
    ^This. Exactly.

    Even receiving an in-game badge for beating a table would already be a welcome addition. They’ve still got enough hard tables in their back catalogue. Give a player a beer and a badge when he/she manages to beat Doom, Clone Wars or Dr. Strange.

    And to keep the game interesting in the long run, they should definitely consider adding more achievements/trophies too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWolf_Beta View Post
    ^This. Exactly.

    Even receiving an in-game badge for beating a table would already be a welcome addition. They’ve still got enough hard tables in their back catalogue. Give a player a beer and a badge when he/she manages to beat Doom, Clone Wars or Dr. Strange.

    And to keep the game interesting in the long run, they should definitely consider adding more achievements/trophies too.
    I recently mentioned wanting a badge for completing wizard modes visible in the main table selection menu. For me it’s more of a reminder of which tables I have yet to complete the wizard mode. With over 80 (?) tables it gets difficult to keep track of these things.

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    Hey cantankerous! We are glad you are back We highly appreciate our loyal fans, so it was a painful decision us to ban you, but sometimes we just have to set our boundaries However we always enjoy to read your constructive critics and honest opinion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chili View Post
    Hey cantankerous! We are glad you are back We highly appreciate our loyal fans, so it was a painful decision us to ban you, but sometimes we just have to set our boundaries However we always enjoy to read your constructive critics and honest opinion!
    It' all good bro, I was being an asshole, and deserved it.
    Last edited by cantankerous--; 05-02-2018 at 03:46 PM.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by surf1der View Post
    I recently mentioned wanting a badge for completing wizard modes visible in the main table selection menu. For me it’s more of a reminder of which tables I have yet to complete the wizard mode. With over 80 (?) tables it gets difficult to keep track of these things.
    Did you receive a reply to your feedback? I understand your main reason is a little different but it might also shed some light on how (or if) they plan on doing something about the the balance issue (skill vs endurance).

    Talk about it has come up multiple times since the game’s release but I’ve yet to read a serious response from a Zen dev.
    Last edited by MuddyWolf_Beta; 05-02-2018 at 08:14 PM. Reason: water

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWolf_Beta View Post
    ^This. Exactly.

    Even receiving an in-game badge for beating a table would already be a welcome addition. They’ve still got enough hard tables in their back catalogue. Give a player a beer and a badge when he/she manages to beat Doom, Clone Wars or Dr. Strange.

    And to keep the game interesting in the long run, they should definitely consider adding more achievements/trophies too.
    This Wizard mode badge is not that outlandish thing to ask for, I wrote it up to the suggestions. Regarding the balance issues of tables being easy-harder I guess we always try to aim for the middle ground so casual players can enjoy and pro players can find cool tricks and some more hidden strategies in each table.

    DOOM has a difficulty selection, is that something you guys (and Muddy) liked?

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    Hello mclovin, Doom is definitly not too easy. 😀 Yes on this table it was a nice option, to change the difficult. This option on all tables.. hmm i m not sure.. in general the tables are balanced. et, backtothefuture, and now the new star wars looks like optimized for android and apple. Hope this is not a new trend...

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    Quote Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
    This Wizard mode badge is not that outlandish thing to ask for, I wrote it up to the suggestions. Regarding the balance issues of tables being easy-harder I guess we always try to aim for the middle ground so casual players can enjoy and pro players can find cool tricks and some more hidden strategies in each table.

    DOOM has a difficulty selection, is that something you guys (and Muddy) liked?
    I like the risk reward option! Every table doesn't need it but for those that make sense sure!

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
    This Wizard mode badge is not that outlandish thing to ask for, I wrote it up to the suggestions. Regarding the balance issues of tables being easy-harder I guess we always try to aim for the middle ground so casual players can enjoy and pro players can find cool tricks and some more hidden strategies in each table.

    DOOM has a difficulty selection, is that something you guys (and Muddy) liked?
    Thanks for the reply Akos

    What I mean with ‘balance’ is not so much the difficulty level of individual tables but the focus of the game. Right now, after you’ve maxed out the Rewind or Score Multiplier, there’s not a mode (I’ve come across) that is particularly hard to beat for an average/above average player.

    So collecting all the stars/table mastery awards basically comes down to grinding(endurance). There’s no incentive to master the missions and beat the Wizard modes (skill). You don’t get rewarded for that. In fact, on the leaderboards, you’ll get punished for it because rarely is beating a table the best way to score high. Usually it comes down to finding the one mode/multi ball that scores the most and then spamming the h*ll out of it (endurance).

    I’m not saying this is easy or wrong. Even when you know what to spam, it takes a lot of concentration and (usually) multi ball skills to score high. But spamming strategies are almost always endurance strategies.

    What goes for the normal rankings, goes for the tournaments too. They greatly reward endurance. You don’t get one chance to set a score. You can try over and over, 24/7, until the tournament ends.

    And then there’s the match up mode. Enough has been said about this mode in other threads. Some like it, some hate it. But whatever the personal preference, most players agree that this too is an endurance mode.

    Which leaves the 75 table achievement for players that like to play for skill rewards...Minus a few. Some of the achievements are so terribly easy (El Dorado, Earth Defence, Biolab spring to mind) that not collecting them is probably harder than collecting them.

    The sad thing is, it isn’t like the game isn’t capable of offering more challenges to players that like to experience and be rewarded for playing the missions and beating the wizard modes.

    On the contrary. And adding a table specific badge for beating the wizard mode of a table would be a great start.

    Ultimate would be a time challenge mode with a timer that doesn’t count down but up and stops when you beat the wizard mode of a table. The leaderboard of this mode would be based on times and not on points of course and it would take a while to fill up but in the long run, I think the effort of implementing such a mode would certainly pay off.

    Speedrunning is becoming more and more popular. On my pinball FX channel my wizard mode runs are by far the most watched and highest rated videos.

    I haven’t made any for FX3 but every FX2 wizard mode run video I’ve made ended up in the top 25 overall Steam video feed. Effortlessly pushing Counterstrike & GTA clips aside Not bad for a niche game/genre.

    Thanks for noting down the suggestions and sorry for the wall of text.

    Btw
    Doom’s Hellwalker achievement is probably my favourite medal in FX2. I guess I’m not the only one because the video of my Nightmare wizard mode run on the table is the highest rated video on my youtube channel with the most views.
    Last edited by MuddyWolf_Beta; 05-03-2018 at 10:56 PM. Reason: water

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    Considering those Star Wars tables aren't on the Switch version I would say no.

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