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Thread: Changes we'd like to see in Pinball FX 2

  1. #1
    Senior Member SBVIPER's Avatar
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    Default Changes we'd like to see in Pinball FX 2

    Greetings! FX 2 is a great sequal/Upgrade. The following are just a couple of items I'd like to see changed from the initial playthrough.

    First, I would like the ability to turn the ball trail off separately from the other effects. Right now if you want the trail off, it turns off several effects I might want left on.

    Second, some of the table voices like in Secrets of the Deep, Rocky and Bullwinkle et. al. are barely heard. It would be nice if they could fix this in an update patch or allow the user to increase the voices to be heard over and above the effects and music.

    Third, I fully understand that if you change the table settings in the Operator menus that you can't be listed on the Leaderboards. However, one of the settings is to change the color of the dot matrix display. How is changing the display color giving me an advantage over other players so I'm kept off the leaderboards? Changing the Matrix color should not ban you from the boards since it does not make the game easier. Just a thought.

    Anyone else have anything to list for ZEN Studios for a possible update?

    Thanks!

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    Here's one: If two people are left in a multiplayer match and one quits, just end the game there with the remaining player the winner. I was just playing a 50% penalty/5M point game of Buccaneer (at which I'm pretty bad) against someone and when I finally started scoring some decent points he quit. Unfortunately, my definition of "decent points" on Buccaneer with the 50% penalty still means that it was another 10 minutes before I could finish up -- I didn't want to leave a ranked match, just in case.

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    There's a bug with view 3 on Biolab.

    When you enter multiball (cloning) the camera follows the first ball you shoot that is released so you can barely see the second ball because the view changes to multiball view too late.

    Don't know if it happens on other boards.

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    Senior Member Phiveball's Avatar
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    I've mentioned this before but I would really like a screen rotate option for those of us with tvs/monitors that allow 90 degree (portrait) rotation. This would be ideal for a top down view.

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    I don't know if this is a bug or just me being really frustrated by "nothing" but the Buccaneer table has an issue:

    The "lock" right above the left scull ALWAYS sends the ball down the drain (right side). I can't remember it did that in FX 1 and I used to love that table.

    I don't seem to be able to prevent it but if it is possible I would love to know how.

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    Default In retrospect

    it would have been nice if all tables could be bought seperatedly. both packs have tables I'm not so fond of (SOTD, Extreme) and ones I'd definitely buy (Agents, Pasha)

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    Senior Member Nekro Neko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinballer View Post
    it would have been nice if all tables could be bought seperatedly. both packs have tables I'm not so fond of (SOTD, Extreme) and ones I'd definitely buy (Agents, Pasha)

    How can you not like SotD!?!?! It's so good.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Phiveball's Avatar
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    Default peraer Rienzi

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    How can you not like SotD!?!?! It's so good.
    Agreed. It has become my favorite of the new tables. The balance between challenge and reward is just about perect, but to each their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    How can you not like SotD!?!?! It's so good.
    "Not so fond of"

    If all tables were seperate I would have bought Pasha, Excalibur, Speedmachine, Agents and Rocky&Bullwinkle (atleast if they'd all have funcional local multiplayer and high scores) for starters

  10. #10

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    I would like to see the multiplayer menu changed. Right now it is embedded into each table. So you first have to select a specific table, then multiplayer, then XBOX LIVE, then player or ranked match. That is too far embedded down, and most people will get frustrated at finding an online game to play.

    At the main menu, there should be a Multiplayer option, and option to select any table or all tables, then quick launch. Maybe a random quick launch to play any table. I really don't care about what table comes up, I just want to play multiplayer online.

  11. #11
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    Lots of good suggestions - keep 'em coming!

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    Senior Member Phiveball's Avatar
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    I was just thinking today that it would be nice to have a practice mode where you can place the ball where you want and set it in motion to practice specific shots and saves, possibly on a repeating loop or resetting at the press of a button. I guess this could potentially take some of the fun out of mastering a table, but it would be helpful to get the timing down for those tricky shots or to practice death saves...etc.

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    It seems very difficult to get multiplayer matches started, and judging from my friends match rankings others are having this problem too. For the number of people that much be playing this game right now, I'd think the matches would be easy to pair and start pretty quickly. What happens instead is I either keep getting paired with the same guy, who stands there and does nothing so the game won't start, or I try to create one and instead I stand there in an empty room. If it's doing something like pairing with the guy that's been waiting the longest, then that needs to somehow account for people that just get in a room but never start a match - if everyone gets directed to him first, then the truly interested players will never find each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBVIPER View Post
    Third, I fully understand that if you change the table settings in the Operator menus that you can't be listed on the Leaderboards. However, one of the settings is to change the color of the dot matrix display. How is changing the display color giving me an advantage over other players so I'm kept off the leaderboards? Changing the Matrix color should not ban you from the boards since it does not make the game easier. Just a thought.
    Hmmm, I thought this was the only option you could change without being banned from the leaderboards?

    For multiplayer: If you always end up with the same guy go to his gamertag, give him bad feedback and you won't ever be matched up with him again.
    If people quit early you will get Trueskill even if the game doesn't end. I jumped from 1 to 15 after playing a four player 50 %/50 million game on SotD. And I quit after everybody else did.

    Suggestions:

    -like somebody said the one lock on Buccaneer sends the ball straight to the exit lane in 8 out of 10 cases
    - the lower bumpers in Rocky & Bullwinkle are too powerful, they also pretty often send the ball straight to the left or right exit lane
    - Scoring on Rocky & Bullwinkle should be adjusted so that Superscore has a meaning.
    - some tables are saving the views, others don't
    - it's way too hard to hit the Oasis on Pasha, in fact every time it happens to me it is pure luck
    - the right ramp on Rome and the middle ramp on Earth Defense need some adjusting, they tend to send the ball exactly between the two flippers with no way of avoiding this whenever the ball reached about 80 % height on them.
    - sometimes (I had it on Pasha) in multiball one of the balls just clips through the right flipper into the exit
    - please get the rights to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and release it for 1200 points or whatever.

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    DMD color and flipper sensitivity can be changed in the operators menu without affecting your ability to post to leaderboards.

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    Senior Member Phiveball's Avatar
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    I was also thinking it might be cool to be able to unlock different skins for the ball. Different colors or patterns (like a 5-ball from billiards) would be a nice, fun touch. Though I would highly recommend coming up with a different name than "ball skin".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phiveball View Post
    I was just thinking today that it would be nice to have a practice mode where you can place the ball where you want and set it in motion to practice specific shots and saves, possibly on a repeating loop or resetting at the press of a button. I guess this could potentially take some of the fun out of mastering a table, but it would be helpful to get the timing down for those tricky shots or to practice death saves...etc.
    thats a good idea, maybe a button could be assigned that we could press when the ball is in a certain situation say going down the outlane,this could put a "tag" that would tell the game where the ball is and speed, direction ect, at the end of play we could start the table in a practice mode and start the ball from the "tag".

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    Perhaps the biggest change I'd like to see is to have multiplayer not be based on the table you're on. I'd like to be able to just select "Multiplayer" and search for anyone playing the game, no matter what table they're on.

  19. #19

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    Some minor typos in Achievements:

    Munifex
    Two "sucessful" shots.... Should be spelled "successful"

    Abyss, Centurion, Legatus Legionis: Missing the closing parenthesis ")" after (Single Player only.

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    Senior Member Ozzpot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phiveball View Post
    I was also thinking it might be cool to be able to unlock different skins for the ball. Different colors or patterns (like a 5-ball from billiards) would be a nice, fun touch. Though I would highly recommend coming up with a different name than "ball skin".
    I was thinking the same! I would like a 9 ball though (my favourite, because I'm a 9-ball player). A gold ball would be awesome too. I know that different colours must be easily doable because the free ball you get when your ball is saved on Earth Defense is pink for a few seconds.

    I think different balls like this could be unlocks for certain Superscore thresholds. The final unlock should be at 250 (so I have a chance of getting it! )

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    I would like to see an option for random table selection for the offline hot seat mode and split screen mode. Instead of having to go into a table and select multiplayer, the game would randomly pick from whatever tables you have downloaded. And maybe even adding a multi game playoff to it as well.

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    Both those ideas above are great.

    Unlocks would be great for longevity. Ball skins would be great but they could go further and give even a free table if you reach unbelievable superscore. Plus a pinball machine avatar prop would be cool

    I'd also like random table option for any gamemode. It gets a bit dull to have to exit and select a new table in normal singleplayer too. It would be nice if the game loaded a different table after 1 game is over.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krilekk View Post
    - it's way too hard to hit the Oasis on Pasha, in fact every time it happens to me it is pure luck
    - please get the rights to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and release it for 200 points or whatever.
    -I agree on getting into the oasis on Pasha, very hard to get in on purpose. Maybe not entirely pure luck, but it usually just happens on it's own. Just a bit easier please. Maybe make the entry ramp slightly downhill. Seems like I almost get it in a lot but the excessive ball spin slows it before it can drop in.

    -And I fixed your suggestion for Indiana Jones table, you had an extra "1" at the beginning. It's only a free market if you don't tell them you're willing to pay almost any price...lol

    -I frequently get the rumble stuck on, using tilt fixes it but it's irritating and what if you need to use tilt a couple times soon after? Happens on two different 360s and two or three different controllers I've tried.

    -Side to side tilt almost never has any affect on the ball.

  24. #24

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    I've mentioned it elsewhere but I'll drop it in here too to keep all the suggestions etc together.

    It's only a little thing but in split screen mode the xbox popup notification needs to be moved to a different place as it obstructs the view of the players table on the right side of the screen when friends log on etc.

    Like the 'ball skin' idea although maybe a name like 'ball style' would be better

    Agree with a proper multiplayer option from the main menu.

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    .
    Last edited by chivato; 10-11-2017 at 12:07 PM.

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    can we have a FX 2 dashboard theme

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    Mark the difficulty of the table (if there is such a thing, or is it just me that I cannot score as high in Rome and Pasha as in SotD and Biolab?). For example Easy, Normal and Hard, or just Easier and Harder.

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    make the ball highly visible (eg via a neon effect) during the 3 second countdown from a pause back into the action.

    many good games have gone down the pan because i was distracted and couldnt remember/find where the ball was before it started up again.

  29. #29
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    A couple of suggestions which I may have mentioned already...

    A 'CUSTOM' camera option for both normal play and multiball play. Thus allowing the player to define camera height and zoom. Some players have commented that the multiball view is too high or too far away.

    I would like to request a minor tweak of the rail textures on some tables in order to minimize the aliasing/jaggy effect. This is now most visible on Buccaneer and Street Fighter after the graphic updates. The texture used on the PFX1 versions of these tables gave a much smoother appearance.

    Good news that Zen are working on the hotseat multiplayer.

  30. #30

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    Get rid of the forced delay in trial table "buy me" message, it's completely unnecessary.

  31. #31

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    I'd like some way to set your preferred High-Score initials, so you don't need to enter them every time. Even if you couldn't add that, at least have the game remember the last entered initials, and then have those displayed in the dialogue so you could just hit Save as soon as the window comes up.

  32. #32

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    Achievements are awarded even if you used slow motion, this makes them pointless. At least in Pasha I just got "Desert Explorer: beaten 3 friends on the Pasha table" with slow motion "cheating". The slow motion score also goes to local high scores, but that's a minor thing.

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    Firstly, PBFX2 is a huge improvement on the original game!

    Clap clap for Zen!


    My Wish List:


    - RECORDINGS: I'd love to see other people's games. Not video as such, but deterministic (virtual joysticks) playback of game files.


    - VOICE OVERS: Please improve! Too often, they're played in isolation from the other Sound FX, instead of reinforcing each other. Rather than building excitement, the VO soften flattens the experience. Some of the sounds are quite morose.

    Please change the pronunciation and emphasis of "Deus ex machina" on Rome! Aaargh.


    - AUDIO: overall, the audio is great. But some sounds are misplaced or lacking. e.g.: Shark Attack multiball on SOTD: the mode starts immediately, with a bare minimum of audio. suitable sounds. There's no build-up of flashing lights and audio. The 2 ball multiball sounds better!

    Often, there's an inadequate audio-visual REWARD for events. e.g. on Buccanneer, hitting a JACKPOT will cause a wind-blowing sound that you'd hardly notice. The action is not reinforced by a combination of sound and visuals.

    Some sounds should be more obvious and informative. Instead of a "wow!" or "great!", why not an exuberant "MULTIPLIERRRR!" or "TIMES TWOOO!"?. When a multiball starts, there should be a build-up of flashing lights and sounds, then "MUUUUUUULTIBALLLLLLLLL!". See: Medieval Madness.


    - CLEARER OBJECTIVES: tables like Biolab or Earth Defense are so complex (and DARK) that it's almost impossible to see what is a ramp, what is an orbit, what is a bank of targets. Earth Defense actually hides an important flipper, let alone who-knows how many orbits and ramps. SOTD hides an entire bank of multiplier targets.

    (But, the dimming of the GI in Pasha is a GREAT! It provides anticipation and reward. On the other hand, it's completely unclear how to start a Tale in that game...)

    Rather than trying to stick a million things on a table, like in Biolab, move parts of the game to mini-games (like in Pasha).

    Instead of presenting initial complexity, I believe the tables should offer initial simplicity. The game should show depth as you progress, rather than overloading the player with "stuff" at the start.



    - PHYSICS: These are a big improvement. But, there's not enough randomised "jitter" to ball-object collisions. On a physical machine, even a wizard can't hit a ramp over and over forever...


    VIDEO MODES: Zen is (IMO rightly) seeking to reinvent pinball for a new generation, rather than just copy 1990s solid-state machines. But, the mix of old and new is not working.

    The DMD is no longer appropriate. Playing Trench vid-game on SOTD seems silly. I'd rather be playing a "modern" mini-game, such as Rescuing the Princess on Pasha.

    Instead, I suggest doing what you do best: take the animations from the DMD, and incorporate them in to the table or above the table as part of animations/holographics, etc.

    e.g.: if you hit a multiplier target, why not just have a big glowing "X2" jump up off the table? Not only is it eye-catching, but it tells the player where on the table the bonus was triggered.


    - GAME OVER : continuing with the anticipation-reward theme... when the game is over, the enter-high-score display should not show immediately. Nor should you get a disinterested "game over" VO. There should be an audio-visual change to the state of the table (e.g. lighting, and a jingle). Yeah, you lost, but there's always next time. At the moment, it's too abrupt and anticlimactic.


    - END OF BALL : please remove the (rather annoying) end of ball sequences where you have to keep tapping the button to see the next bit of score you got. R&B and Buccanneer are the worst.


    - MACHINE RESET: an option to reset the machine for when a ball gets stuck.



    Again, thanks for these tables Zen. You've done a great job. Now get back to work. :-)

    p.s. reCaptcha makes me a sad pinball panda.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Nekro Neko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Firstly, PBFX2 is a huge improvement on the original game!
    - RECORDINGS: I'd love to see other people's games. Not video as such, but deterministic (virtual joysticks) playback of game files.
    Love it, would be nice to save my best runs.

    - AUDIO: overall, the audio is great. But some sounds are misplaced or lacking. e.g.: Shark Attack multiball on SOTD: the mode starts immediately, with a bare minimum of audio. suitable sounds. There's no build-up of flashing lights and audio. The 2 ball multiball sounds better!
    I find it's adequate on SotD. Some tables don't even let you know you started a multiball.


    Often, there's an inadequate audio-visual REWARD for events. e.g. on Buccanneer, hitting a JACKPOT will cause a wind-blowing sound that you'd hardly notice. The action is not reinforced by a combination of sound and visuals.
    A fair point, but it is on the older tables that you have that problem. From around Street Fighter onwards this aspect is far better.


    Some sounds should be more obvious and informative. Instead of a "wow!" or "great!", why not an exuberant "MULTIPLIERRRR!" or "TIMES TWOOO!"?. When a multiball starts, there should be a build-up of flashing lights and sounds, then "MUUUUUUULTIBALLLLLLLLL!". See: Medieval Madness.
    I quite like the subtleness you get sometimes.


    - CLEARER OBJECTIVES: tables like Biolab or Earth Defense are so complex (and DARK) that it's almost impossible to see what is a ramp, what is an orbit, what is a bank of targets. Earth Defense actually hides an important flipper, let alone who-knows how many orbits and ramps. SOTD hides an entire bank of multiplier targets.
    Biolab is a really simple table to follow. There are hardly any ramps and mostly orbits. The mini games are fine as well, so I don't see how you find that a complex table. ED is a complicated table though and can understand your issue but the more advanced players like myself prefer the challenge.


    Rather than trying to stick a million things on a table, like in Biolab, move parts of the game to mini-games (like in Pasha).
    You really need to spend some time on Biolab, the playfield is extremely open and losing your ball is hard to do. I think there are two ramps (if memory serves) and a fair few orbits, it's a very simplistic table really. Now if only I could have made that last jump on wizard mode



    Instead of presenting initial complexity, I believe the tables should offer initial simplicity. The game should show depth as you progress, rather than overloading the player with "stuff" at the start.
    Biolab is initially simple As I've said though, complexity is preferred for seasoned players. Finding a balance of tables is what should be aimed for.


    - PHYSICS: These are a big improvement. But, there's not enough randomised "jitter" to ball-object collisions. On a physical machine, even a wizard can't hit a ramp over and over forever...
    Don't know about you but I haven't managed to chain more than 8 or 9 loops around any ramp or orbit yet let alone hitting it forever.


    The DMD is no longer appropriate. Playing Trench vid-game on SOTD seems silly. I'd rather be playing a "modern" mini-game, such as Rescuing the Princess on Pasha.
    I flat out disagree. Having video mode for some tables is an essential part of pinball. The mix should be there, but video mode means you have more space to work with on putting ramps in rather than booking that space for special mini games.


    e.g.: if you hit a multiplier target, why not just have a big glowing "X2" jump up off the table? Not only is it eye-catching, but it tells the player where on the table the bonus was triggered.
    I'm going to guess you were one of the players who didn't turn off the ball trail and scores that pop up. To be honest, the multiplier isn't normally the best thing you could be spending your time getting. It usually applies only to the bonus calculation when you lose a ball.


    - GAME OVER : continuing with the anticipation-reward theme... when the game is over, the enter-high-score display should not show immediately. Nor should you get a disinterested "game over" VO. There should be an audio-visual change to the state of the table (e.g. lighting, and a jingle). Yeah, you lost, but there's always next time. At the moment, it's too abrupt and anticlimactic.
    I think I know what you mean, but I'm easy either way, but yeah, would be nice.


    - END OF BALL : please remove the (rather annoying) end of ball sequences where you have to keep tapping the button to see the next bit of score you got. R&B and Buccanneer are the worst.
    I have yet to see a pinball game yet that doesn't show you your bonus score. I'm quite content to have it show to be honest.


    - MACHINE RESET: an option to reset the machine for when a ball gets stuck.
    Well you could just reset the table, but what would be better is if you could choose the option to lose the ball you are on to continue playing. The game would virtually drain the ball (as it can't physically) so to speak.


    Some nice ideas, but a lot I thought would ruin the pinball experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    I'm going to guess you were one of the players who didn't turn off the ball trail and scores that pop up.
    Nup. I turned off Arcade FX straight away. I recently turned it back on, for scoring.

    As others have suggested, it'd be nice to be able to individually enable/disable comet trails, particle effects, scores, etc.

    I don't see any inherent benefit to a DMD. And that's coming from someone who loves solid-state pinball. (::rubs his copy of PHOF Williams Collection, gently:

    There's nothing pure or sacred about a DMD. They were a transition element, and an attempt to combine video games with pinball.

    And I'm very sure that if they could have, Williams would have added the type of stuff Zen can now. Hell, that's exactly what they were trying to do. See: Pinball 2000.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko
    To be honest, the multiplier isn't normally the best thing you could be spending your time getting.
    It was just an example. A better one is EXTRA BALL. You can get an extra on some Zen tables, without even knowing it. I played 9 balls on Buccaneer and didn't know I'd gotten any of them.

    Cheers.

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    I would like to see...

    Replay video of the last 5 matches and recording mode to save video and share on youtube or submit to a friends.
    As halo 3 or halo reach cinema mode.

    ...and also that balls can be controlled in this way:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkc2NooEUQ

    Watch this video at 3min 05 sec.

    Seems that in pinball FX isn t possible to control the ball with the leeves in the same way of the video

    seems that we can not control balls with sticks like in the video

  37. #37
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    Overall, I like the physics model much better on FX2, but the only thing that is sort of troubling is the shift that takes place when transitioning in and out of multiball. When multiball goes into effect the balls start having the feel of BBs but when the table reverts back to single ball, it almost feels like you are pushing a bowling ball around the table. It's the latter effect that sort of throws me at first. It's not a major problem but just thought that I would throw that out there. Thanks, for an excellent sequel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post

    (But, the dimming of the GI in Pasha is a GREAT! It provides anticipation and reward.
    I was just playing Pasha and thought that it was kind of ironic that the table goes dark just after the lady says, "The lamp is fully charged." It's a cool effect but you would think things would get brighter when the lamp is charged. lol - I'm sure I'm missing something though.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Nekro Neko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyToxic View Post
    Overall, I like the physics model much better on FX2, but the only thing that is sort of troubling is the shift that takes place when transitioning in and out of multiball. When multiball goes into effect the balls start having the feel of BBs but when the table reverts back to single ball, it almost feels like you are pushing a bowling ball around the table. It's the latter effect that sort of throws me at first. It's not a major problem but just thought that I would throw that out there. Thanks, for an excellent sequel.
    I think that is a psychological thing, those balls act exactly the same way they do no matter how many there are on the field.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    I think that is a psychological thing, those balls act exactly the same way they do no matter how many there are on the field.
    Thanks for clearing that up for me.

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    I replied for a post in Marvel Pinball thread but it doesn't have much to do it with so I post here

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbdrums001 View Post
    Pinballer, I can't see why you're complaining. $2.50 for 1 table is an amazing deal (or $10 for four if you want to look at it that way). Zen makes four tables because they want you to play four tables, not just one or two. I'm actually happy they had me buy the four tables in the FX2 core pack because I like all of them rather than just thinking that I would only like 2 or 3.
    Thing is I don't want or like them all. I can pick which ones I want from SF2, R&B, Excalibur and other such tables but I can't do that with the 4-table bundles. The ability to purchase individual tables is there but for some reason Zen doesn't apply it to all tables. I see the point behind this forced bundling is just to get us pay for tables some of us aren't interested in. Some people might give in and buy the Classic pack although they only want Agents but I'm not doing that

    You could have just bought the 4 individual tables instead of buying the bundle if you like them all. Or Zen could have gone pinball way (1 ball for $1 and 3 balls for $2 (Don't know what they're really in dollars)) and give a slight discount for bundles

    As far as I feel (and I've heard and seen other people say it) $2.50 is quite high price too. Not alone but it quickly cumulates. So far the tables cost some $30 altogether. These bundles have $15 worth of tables I'm not interested in

    The tables I would have bought individually from bundles:
    -Biolab
    -Pasha
    -Agents
    -Speed Machine
    -Spiderman
    -Blade

    The tables I wouldn't have bought (for $2.50):
    -SOTD
    -Rome
    -Extreme
    -Buccaneer
    -IronMan
    -Wolverine

    So the change wish: Allow us to buy all tables individually and perhaps offer the 4-table bundles too but give some $1 discount

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    A new, default camera mode, being a hybrid of Mode 6's long-distance fixed aspect, but with ball tracking.

    i.e. the camera follows the ball, but at a much further distance. The important areas of the playfield are in view at any one time, but the camera zooms in for tricky areas (top of table rollovers, mini-games, etc.)

    (See: Williams Pinball Hall of Fame, and, to some extent, Future Pinball. Though without the latter game's overdone lateral camera motions.)

    Currently, I only use camera 6. This means that I can't see a lot of the table detail and indicators, even on a big HD screen.

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    Two suggestions:

    1.) I love how the 4 new pinball FX 2 and the recently released 4 Marvel tables have LOCAL Top 10 high scores. I love seeing how far i've come from dethroning my own high scores from the past in a top 10. This feature is missing from every other table! I feel this would be a quick fix to add the ability to put in your initials after a top 10 local finish and submit your score. The fact these are absent from all other tables just gets under my skin!

    2.) With invested time, following the rulesheet while trial-and-error will eventually teach you the table. I really love how Pinball Hall of Fame: William's Collection does an actual tour of the table with arrows and indicators as it goes through each rule and possible play of the table. I realize ZEN just does a few slides of information which doesn't really bother me. Takes more time to figure things out exactly but it works. What bothers me is I feel there are many parts of the table that they either leave out or aren't clear on. Such as how in ROME you can spell "EMPIRE" yet no where in the rules does it clarify what that actually does? I've yet to find out. I just suggest a revision of these rule sheets and make sure you encompass everything on the table.

    Keep up the great work ZEN, you guys have an excellent product and im glad you listen to your fans!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GulfCoastTiger View Post

    2.) With invested time, following the rulesheet while trial-and-error will eventually teach you the table. I really love how Pinball Hall of Fame: William's Collection does an actual tour of the table with arrows and indicators as it goes through each rule and possible play of the table. I realize ZEN just does a few slides of information which doesn't really bother me. Takes more time to figure things out exactly but it works. What bothers me is I feel there are many parts of the table that they either leave out or aren't clear on. Such as how in ROME you can spell "EMPIRE" yet no where in the rules does it clarify what that actually does? I've yet to find out. I just suggest a revision of these rule sheets and make sure you encompass everything on the table.

    Keep up the great work ZEN, you guys have an excellent product and im glad you listen to your fans!
    Here why this feature is good for the Williams game, but isn't necessarily ideal for ours: the Williams tables have all been figured out and mastered years ago, while our tables are all completely new to everyone when they are released. Thus, in our game, there's an opportunity to discover and figure out things for yourself that no one else in the world knows, rather than simply following a well-established recipe for points. In my opinion, that's one of the reasons why the Zen community is a little more lively - people get together to share information and strategies. And the feeling of accomplishment as you learn the ins and outs of a table is greater, because no one held your hand during the process - the rule sheets give general info, but it's up to you to learn the precise details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    Here why this feature is good for the Williams game, but isn't necessarily ideal for ours: the Williams tables have all been figured out and mastered years ago, while our tables are all completely new to everyone when they are released. Thus, in our game, there's an opportunity to discover and figure out things for yourself that no one else in the world knows, rather than simply following a well-established recipe for points. In my opinion, that's one of the reasons why the Zen community is a little more lively - people get together to share information and strategies. And the feeling of accomplishment as you learn the ins and outs of a table is greater, because no one held your hand during the process - the rule sheets give general info, but it's up to you to learn the precise details.
    I appreciate the response! Good point, and for the most part I like and appreciate both approaches! Solitude, would you have any comment on my first suggestion? Is this planned or do you believe it will remain as it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GulfCoastTiger View Post
    I appreciate the response! Good point, and for the most part I like and appreciate both approaches! Solitude, would you have any comment on my first suggestion? Is this planned or do you believe it will remain as it is?
    We have a to-do list of features we need to go back and add to the old tables, such as local hotseat, split-screen, etc. The local high scores is one of those items. However, I'm not sure how the items are prioritized and scheduled, so I can't promise that it will be added by a certain date.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    Here why this feature is good for the Williams game, but isn't necessarily ideal for ours: the Williams tables have all been figured out and mastered years ago, while our tables are all completely new to everyone when they are released. Thus, in our game, there's an opportunity to discover and figure out things for yourself that no one else in the world knows, rather than simply following a well-established recipe for points. In my opinion, that's one of the reasons why the Zen community is a little more lively - people get together to share information and strategies. And the feeling of accomplishment as you learn the ins and outs of a table is greater, because no one held your hand during the process - the rule sheets give general info, but it's up to you to learn the precise details.
    Thanks for the feedback and I do understand the point you make but for me I just don't agree. I want somebody to hold my hand , or at least have the hand within reach so that I can grab it when I am feeling lost, desperate and vulnerable....

    The skill for me in pinball (from the perspective of somebody living in South Africa that knows about pinball, but not really having that much access to it, even in pinballs heyday in the 80's and 90's) is to each time I play the table get a little further with regards to achieving the missions etc. - it has very little to do with the actual points for me in the end. I am not good at figuring out what is going on or what I should be doing and I think it has a lot to do with all the information having to be squashed on to a screen; the DMD being in a weird position in relation to your viewing perspective, using a viewing angle that can only attempt to "simulate" a real view and thus not being able to really see (or comprehend ) what is going on or what is happening on a table. I am sure that on a real life table this won't be such an issue and that things will make a whole lot more sense.

    So, please consider making the rule sheets available (and as an aside please consider giving us adjustable views). I have slowly been able to get help for certain missions etc. from other forums and more often than not, things are revealed that I would never have figured out on my own, or if I figured it out it would have been by chance and I wouldn't be able to replicate it again

    Anyway - not having rule sheets will not stop me from playing pinball fx 2 because I really love it, but it would really enhance the experience for me tremendously. Please understand not everybody is or will ever be Pinball Wizards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloda View Post
    I am not good at figuring out what is going on or what I should be doing and I think it has a lot to do with all the information having to be squashed on to a screen; the DMD being in a weird position in relation to your viewing perspective, using a viewing angle that can only attempt to "simulate" a real view and thus not being able to really see (or comprehend ) what is going on or what is happening on a table....

    So, please consider making the rule sheets available (and as an aside please consider giving us adjustable views).
    Cloda, you know that you can move the DMD position and also hold 'X' while using the left thumbstick to 'look' around the table, right?

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    I would like to hear some new upgraded physics sounds, ie bumpers, flippers. I'm not very fond of the dull thumps, Clacks, and ka-chunks of the audio. I think your sound design could be better, and more realistic. Check out future pinball, or visual pinball. The physics audio is very authentic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxfx4u View Post
    The physics audio is very authentic.
    Can't say I agree. Yes, Visual Pinball has emulated sfx, but its table sounds are pretty ordinary in comparison to Zens. It's not even in the same league, really.

    And Future Pinball? Eek. Does it even have physics-based ball rolling sounds yet?

    I think Zen's physics audio is pretty good, but yes, needs variety. For example, there's very little (if any) of the ball-on-glass sounds that you get with a wayward shot in real pinball tables. Similarly, ball-on-ball collision sound effects aren't right; they are too dull. A hard multiball hit in real pinball will generate a very loud metallic click, with slight echoing.


    Also, I'm sad to say, the bad voiceovers are back in the Marvel tables. Sob. I'm already tired of that woman saying "awe-sum!". One would have thought she'd been exiled after "Veni (sigh) Vidi (yawn) Vici" and "Day-us (snore) Ex (sigh) Masheena" ;-)

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimkom View Post
    Cloda, you know that you can move the DMD position and also hold 'X' while using the left thumbstick to 'look' around the table, right?
    Thanks for that - I am aware of it and make use of it. The point I was trying to make is that the positioning on a real table is much more intuitive e.g. your eyes will move up and focus much easier on the straight ahead and big DMD. The second point I was trying to make was that; yes, it is possible to hold X and view the table, but what I find really difficult is following all the cues that are thrown at you while the ball is whizzing around - I miss way too much information to always figure out what is going on.

    I just find it frustrating that I don't have a reference at hand so that I can't quickly look up something and continue playing. In most cases once I know what it is, it usually makes sense and I can replicate it. But, as explained, with the ball whizzing around....

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    then again the sentinel is the best voice by far in all the fx tables to date!

    SEARCHING FOR MUTANTS!

    i would like at least one table with the 'No Fear' style voices 'MULTIBALL!!!!'

  53. #53
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    With the release of the Marvel tables I think we are seeing the transition to a new higher standard in all aspects Zen's pinball design, and I include the audio in that too. Lets hope Zen maintain these new standards going into the next tables....

    I also don't agree that the physics sounds are off. Quite the contrary in my opinion. Everything sounds real and solid, with some really good ball rolling sounds and thuds. I used to dislike the flipper sound but if I'm not mistaken that has been updated with the release of PFX2.

    Voice over work seems to have taken a leap forward with Blade and (in parts) Wolverine too. I think voice sample repetition needs to be more tightly controlled though. In Pasha, do we really need to hear 'DEFEAT THE GUARDS!' every time the ball enters the mini playfield?! Some variety or avoidance of sample repetiton would be nice.

    Music again is constantly being improved with Blade being top of the list (again!) although the Ironman music also sounds great. Wolverine starts a little too downbeat in my opinion but improves as it goes along.
    Last edited by kimkom; 12-10-2010 at 10:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimkom View Post
    With the release of the Marvel tables I think we are seeing the transition to a new higher standard in all aspects Zen's pinball design, and I include the audio in that too. Lets hope Zen maintain these new standards going into the next tables....

    I also don't agree that the physics sounds are off. Quite the contrary in my opinion. Everything sounds real and solid, with some really good ball rolling sounds and thuds. I used to dislike the flipper sound but if I'm not mistaken that has been updated with the release of PFX2.

    Voice over work seems to have taken a leap forward with Blade and (in parts) Wolverine too. I think voice sample repetition needs to be more tightly controlled though. In Pasha, do we really need to hear 'DEFEAT THE GUARDS!' every time the ball enters the mini playfield?! Some variety or avoidance of sample repetiton would be nice but not essential as real tables are repetitive. I love playing spiderman down my local bowling alley, every time you hit a ramp you can hear him shouting woohoo from the film. It makes the ramp shots really satisfying.

    Maybe I just like repetition though as I play a table with the same tactics for hours

    Music again is constantly being improved with Blade being top of the list (again!) although the Ironman music also sounds great. Wolverine starts a little too downbeat in my opinion but improves as it goes along.
    I think I slightly prefer the pinball fx 2 tables but I love the new tables none the less. I kind of like the repetitive speach as it's there for when mates come around and don't know what they are doing. Maybe a little variety in the way they are said would improve things if that's what you mean.

    I'm just looking forward to more tables because I'm such a greedy guy and will buy anything that has zen and pinball written on it at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    Here why this feature is good for the Williams game, but isn't necessarily ideal for ours:.
    You raise some good points. And it's entirely valid that something like a Wizard mode shouldn't be shown in an animated Table Guide. Or that the quickest way to score high points be explained.

    However, I'll just point out that some instructions are already listed out in the guide, in the form of text and some (small, indistinct) screenshots. I think it would be very useful for these existing instructions to make their way in to 3D form.

    An example: like probably 99% of players, I hit "Start a Tale" in Pasha almost straight away. I didn't know how I started it, but there was a light flashing so I figured I'd better go for that light. But the thing the light is pointing to is hidden. Then the table told me that time is running out. How much time do I have? Flip, flip. Now the table says I've gotten more time as a reward for my efforts. How did that happen? How do I make it happen again.

    By the tenth game, some of these things are clear. And some not. But as an introduction to the table, it's confusing.

    An animated (non-video) guide would help with this by showing the rudimentary shots required for the basic modes. And I definitely think it would help those players who think that pinball is about swatting at the ball instinctively until the inevitable drain. (Which, I suspect is the vast majority of players. See: YouTube.)

    Anyway, thanks for the response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    You raise some good points. And it's entirely valid that something like a Wizard mode shouldn't be shown in an animated Table Guide. Or that the quickest way to score high points be explained.

    However, I'll just point out that some instructions are already listed out in the guide, in the form of text and some (small, indistinct) screenshots. I think it would be very useful for these existing instructions to make their way in to 3D form.

    An example: like probably 99% of players, I hit "Start a Tale" in Pasha almost straight away. I didn't know how I started it, but there was a light flashing so I figured I'd better go for that light. But the thing the light is pointing to is hidden. Then the table told me that time is running out. How much time do I have? Flip, flip. Now the table says I've gotten more time as a reward for my efforts. How did that happen? How do I make it happen again.

    By the tenth game, some of these things are clear. And some not. But as an introduction to the table, it's confusing.

    An animated (non-video) guide would help with this by showing the rudimentary shots required for the basic modes. And I definitely think it would help those players who think that pinball is about swatting at the ball instinctively until the inevitable drain. (Which, I suspect is the vast majority of players. See: YouTube.)

    Anyway, thanks for the response.
    What would be really great for me (apart from the actual rule sheet and adjustable views ) is if Zen can make available a high quality labelled (e.g. loop 1) top down image of each table layout where you can clearly see everything on the table. Often times, even with holding X , I can't clearly see where all the holes and loops are etc. e.g. on spiderman shooting with the top left paddle you can shoot it up the ramp, but I had to look plenty of times to make sure if there is an entrance for a loop just above the ramp.
    Last edited by Cloda; 12-11-2010 at 05:36 AM.

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    I to would like to throw in my vote for a change to the multiplayer. I don't know how it can work, as everyone has different tables so having a lobby that plays a random table (ala call of duty) won't work. But it is frusterating sometimes to try and go to each table I own seperatly looking for anyone out there who may be trying to pull together a multi match. (I guess that's what a friends list is for.. ok, you got me there...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloda View Post
    What would be really great for me (apart from the actual rule sheet and adjustable views ) is if Zen can make available a high quality labelled (e.g. loop 1) top down image of each table layout where you can clearly see everything on the table. Often times, even with holding X , I can't clearly see where all the holes and loops are etc. e.g. on spiderman shooting with the top left paddle you can shoot it up the ramp, but I had to look plenty of times to make sure if there is an entrance for a loop just above the ramp.
    I can't even figure out what I'm supposed to be aiming at for the Spider-man skill shot. Is it something visible?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by woof321 View Post
    I can't even figure out what I'm supposed to be aiming at for the Spider-man skill shot. Is it something visible?
    You're aiming to shoot right between the bumpers. It's an incredibly hard skillshot, worse than the Rome table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    You're aiming to shoot right between the bumpers. It's an incredibly hard skillshot, worse than the Rome table.

    This shot is actually very easy. All you have to really do is get the weight level with Spidermans head/shoulder and your golden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexandro View Post
    This shot is actually very easy. All you have to really do is get the weight level with Spidermans head/shoulder and your golden.
    I think what he is referring to is getting the skill shot from the flippers not from the initial ball launch. That skill shot is a lot harder, but it I once got it twice in a row really quick, so it's not thaaaatttt hard.

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    There needs to be a 'reset' or 'call attendant' button.

    I have had two experiences so far with a ball or the game coming to a place where I could not advance and I had to restart. This would be very annoying if I had been in the middle of a high scoring game and had to restart. Fortunately I wasn't at one of the points in either occurrence. One experience was on Earth Defense. I don't know where the ball was but it was somewhere behind the robot and stuck. No matter what I did including tilting the table would free the ball. I finally just had to quit the game and start a new one. Last night I experienced a problem on Spiderman.I was on a Goblin stage and I lost my silver ball right as the pumpkin balls exploded. For whatever reason that game seemed to think my silver ball was in play and would not load or register that the ball had gone out. In this case I could actually bang the table all about but not tilt. I'm not sure what was going on there. I did have another ball still to play but I had to restart.

    Love the game. Just giving some feedback to hopefully help tweak or make the game a little better if we get updates.

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    You may have tried this, but in everyinstance of ball stickage or machine confusion, simply not doing anything (no flippering or holding of flippers or bumping or plungering) for I think its thirty seconds or so will make the machine reset a ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Nation View Post
    You may have tried this, but in everyinstance of ball stickage or machine confusion, simply not doing anything (no flippering or holding of flippers or bumping or plungering) for I think its thirty seconds or so will make the machine reset a ball.
    That works for me too. Have not yet "lost" any rounds because of stuck balls.

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    How about a PC version that allows the use of the Xbox 360 controller, since it is usable on either platform?

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