Fish Tales U-Turn loop broken?
Someone on another forum post this, and iv experience it too. Doing a UTurn from the left ramp launch the ball directly in the middle of the flippers like nealry 100% of the time. Was the real pinball like this? It was not something iv experience in TPA, but cant say if its a bug or not if the real table was like this.
Not sure about accuracy or not, but will confirm a lot of drains off of U-turns. Needs nudge to save.
-Mike
that is true to life. real pinballs very often drain off of failed ramp shots. that's supposed to be the risk of trying to hit them. TPA is WAY too kind in this regard. TAF is another real life example where shots that fail to make it up the bear kick ramp in real life over 50% of the time scream straight down the middle. It almost never happens in digital versions. Left ramp in elvira, same risk in real life, but never in TPA.Originally Posted by sliderpoint
This danger drain is because of lightning flippers. non lightning ones would be able to save those near misses. that's why the lightning flips were put on the game in the first place.
Note that medieval madness deliberately is set up for that to NOT happen, with it's protector things.
DO NOT CHANGE THIS. That danger to the otherwise safe shots at the boat ramp is realistic.
Last edited by zaphod77; 09-09-2018 at 08:29 AM.
Well, that good to know that making a U-Turn in Fish Tales is risky and represent a danger where you need to nudge. Thats a good thing then if its represent the real pinball machine! So inguess this doesnt represent an issue.
I just checked the FT in our office and the U-Turn shot on it does not forward the ball to the center drain. The ball arrives on the flippers from both directions so I will adjust this.
Each pinball plays differently, even among the same model.
the ball spin physics seems to be what's causing it to come off of the wall, and i can understand how it happens.
This can be another one of those easy vs hard differences.
TAF is the same way. it looks like a failed bear kick ramp shot should go to a flipper, but on some machines it's likely to come off the right wall of the ramp and divert straight down the middle. it really does happen, and again it's ball, spin that does it. it's like reverse english in pool, and, just like in pool, it's quite unpredictable
It will always act about the same if the machine is properly set up or as i like to say "tuned". Something I've learned over decades of restoring dozens of similar machines. Especially on games like TAF. Having the ball predictably behave when getting shot out of Fester's chair and the swamp kick are paramount for correct gameplay.
I agree that in most cases kickouts should be consistent, with only a teensy bit of variation. but failed shots can have a wider variation, and still be correct. Real failed ramp shots do NOT act the same every time.
Its cool to know that machine can change if not properly set up, and also not be always 100% accurate on all the shots, but buying a digital pinball, well, we want the ´always tuned’ version of it,not a used version. Not sure if it can be set up to be not always 100% accurate, but knowing it will get fixed i think its a good thing. Ball is nearly always falliing down the middle on UTurn. Good to know that Deep is looking into the issue.
Glad to hear you'll adjust it, as the U-Turn has a variable return presently.
A centre ramp shot that doesn't make it to the habitrail, but return on the opposite ramp, will return SDTM, a slow shot that doesn't make it up the ramp will return to the sling, and a faster shot that will go up the ramp, but not fast enough to do the U-Turn will either SDTM or do a proper return.
So the return path seem to be affected by speed and feeds to the middle or the outside. I can see a wrong sized rubber on a post affecting the return path, like the right orbit return is doing, but not so 'randomly' like it is set up right now.
it's ball spin that's doing it, and i think the drain is fair. when it goes up on and down the other the ball spin direction reverses and then it strikes the outside ramp wall with reverse english. this causes it to sometimes come off. if instead it was a real loop, the ball would stay on the same wall and have running english, and it wouldn't come off the wall.
Some Fish tales will do this, and some will not. On some rocky and bullwinkles backhanding the waybac machine is safe. on other it's vert dangerous, and failures will go straight don the middle.
Because TPA doesn't actually have ball spin, this does not happen in TPA.
this come off the wall when going back down a ramp thing is indeed realistic if the ball changes walls when coming down, depending on the friction against the ramp wall. the less friction there is against the ramp side walls, the less likely the ball is to come off like that.
Ball spin causes other events you may remember from real life. a ball looks like it's gonna hit the left inlane, but as soon as it touches the rubber, it suddenly picks up speed and whips into the outlane? Magnets? no it's counterclockwise ball spin and a slow enough moving ball. Shoulda nudged.
crazy ball spin is also a cause of airballs and flipper jumping.
If you just get one game, and based your recreation on that, you are recreating that version of the game. play on multiple machines of the same game on location in good condition helps to get a feel as to how it should play.
(incidentally, please consult me on TAF's feel when you get around to doing it. the game is very dear to me, and i played the heck out of it when it was somewhat new and people knew how to dial games in, so i know a lot of what should happen)
@zaphod
Your explanation makes sense. I have maybe played a real FT once so I have no idea if this happens on the real FT but you explanation makes sense.
This only happens on u-turns and never happens on the full loop or failed loops (goes up the ramp and back down the same ramp) or u-turns ... only the u-turn scenario results in reverse english. And the scenario of not even making it to the u-turn gives the ball time to stop spinning and reverse its spin as it comes back down... running english up and down the ramp.
I have no idea if this settles it in terms of physics of ball spin being accurate in FX3 but I’ll have to agree with zaphod77 even though I can’t confirm that this happens often on real FT.
It would be interesting for the beta to have a ball with enough texture that we could easily see how the ball is spinning.
Last edited by foofoorabbit; 09-12-2018 at 01:10 AM.
I haven't personally witnessed it on a fish tales, but i sure have on TAF with bear kick shots that don't make it all the way around. especially ones that barely fail to clear, and the deflection looked really similar, so that's why i pronounced it as a valid choice.
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