Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Pinball Simulation vs. Fantasy Pinball

  1. #1

    Default Pinball Simulation vs. Fantasy Pinball

    With thes latest beta (9/17/18), seems like Pinball FX3 Williams is now attempting to cater to two distinct groups:

    1. Real pinball players who want a proper, true-to-life, realistic “pinball simulation”
    2. Casual gamers who want an enjoyable pinball-themed video game (nothing wrong with that!)

    I truly believe you Zen guys are real pinball fans. You’re also running a successful business. That said, there is a big enough “market share” out there to suggest placing priority on creating a proper real-world pinball simulation is good business practice. Real world pinball is heating up. Stern's sales are through the roof. Boutique manufacturing is booming. Pinball is like craft beer and vinyl. People want something real, or at least close to it if they can't have the real thing. I realize we're talking about digital pinball here, but you get the idea!

    There’s a time-honored saying from real pinball designers (who borrowed it from Atari’s Nolan Bushnell): The very best pinball games are “Easy to learn, difficult to master.” See Bushnell's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushnell%27s_Law

    Here’s how you guys might employ Bushnell's Law in such a way as for Zen to capture the biggest possible market share:

    Zen Mode:
    * Give the giant Zen fanbase what Zen knows works: Fantasy physics and 3D animated characters. Fun stuff. Long ball times. See all the modes! Nothing wrong with this “pinball as video game” approach for people who aren’t used to the “rigor” of real pinball.

    Arcade Mode:
    * Real world physics, with a casual real pinball player setup. You find this kind of setup in a pizza parlor (versus a barcade that caters to Pinheads, like Coin Op in Sacramento, Ca. for example). Gentler slope, rubbers that are allowed to age a bit, playfield that isn’t waxed weekly. Still — this is pinball simulation. It’s a challenge to keep that wild ball under control. New players will have to work a bit to start a multiball for example, but aren’t frustrated by immediate drains. This mode should still cater to “real pinball fans” (Zen mode is always there if it’s too frustrating).

    Tournament Mode:
    * Win over all of us real world pinball players, who also happen to love pinball simulation. We hang out in pinball bars, go to conventions, listen to countless pinball podcasts, watch PAPA videos endlessly to improve our game, etc. Steeper slope (but not so steep as to suggest a giant magnet in the center drain). Bouncier rubbers. Missed shots are much more likely to result in center or outlane drains. Naturally shorter ball times.

    I'm confident that you guys can satisfy both camps of players (casual and hardcore pinball fans). If you're able to do so, it'll be a win-win for both Zen and the community.
    Last edited by Ben Logan; 09-18-2018 at 10:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Manager McLovin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    613

    Default

    You encapsulated pretty much what we are aiming for Ben!

    How you described the 3 modes are very well spot on how we would describe them, and they should behave this way.

    Remastered mode uses Zen physics, got all the bells and whistles of an original Zen table. Arcade modes uses the 'Deep engine' (as I saw someone call it) with more real-table like physics and flipper behaviour. Tournament rules uses the IFPA rules!

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Arcade mode should be "broken in".

    For getaway this means you can easily shoot the shoot next to the one you were aiming for.

    aim for burn rubber, and hit the orbit next to it, and vice versa.

    slope should be factory 6.5 degrees for anything with ramps.
    Last edited by zaphod77; 09-19-2018 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
    You encapsulated pretty much what we are aiming for Ben!

    How you described the 3 modes are very well spot on how we would describe them, and they should behave this way.

    Remastered mode uses Zen physics, got all the bells and whistles of an original Zen table. Arcade modes uses the 'Deep engine' (as I saw someone call it) with more real-table like physics and flipper behaviour. Tournament rules uses the IFPA rules!
    The way the modes are named right now is confusing. Since the "Deep Engine" is new, it's not unreasonable for someone to think that "classic" refers to "classic Zen physics". The in-game tooltip doesn't help matters, either; "Classic Single Player" simply says "Start a Single Player Game without Wizard Powers or Table Upgrades". Nothing about the UI suggests that you'll get an entirely different physics engine depending on which mode you select.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    139

    Default

    it should probably say "Play the game as it was in real life, without upgrades or powerups."

  6. #6
    Community Manager McLovin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    613

    Default

    Yes, this is being discussed how we can make this more clear.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •