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Thread: Need some spiderman tips

  1. #1

    Default Need some spiderman tips

    I usually use the leaderboard scores to gauge how high a score I can expect in game. With Spidey's top 10 all well into the billions, I expected an easy high score. Not so.

    I understand the basics of this table, I know how to get 3 of the 4 stages going (Goblin, Doc, and JJ) and I know (I think) how to beat them. I don't know how to start the real Mysterio (backwards flipper) level though. It's the others stuff I don't understand. My high score was a craptastic 23 million until I stumbled onto some interesting modes. Party? How did I do that and what am I supposed to do other than hit ramps?

    It also kept saying stuff about "Final Mode" but I had no idea I was anywhere close to getting there. In one game I had rooftop jumps at a million a shot. HOW?

    After messing around and just learning the ramps, I got my score up to 59 million or so. Still not what I am looking for on such a high scoring table.

    Any tips or a link to a guide would be appreciated.

  2. #2

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    I just started playing Spiderman (definitely my least favorite of core2+marvel), but I think I know the answers to some of these questions.

    (btw, some of these answers I think you can find in the ruleset if you go to Help & Options when pausing the game, in case you weren't aware of that)

    Quote Originally Posted by Numanoid View Post
    I don't know how to start the real Mysterio (backwards flipper) level though.
    I believe this involves hitting the captive ball in the upper playfield and then hitting the shot that mysterio appears above. Not sure if you have to do this more than once, I can't remember.

    Quote Originally Posted by Numanoid View Post
    Party? How did I do that and what am I supposed to do other than hit ramps?
    I think that about sums it up. Hit things, collect points, be happy. I think party is the 2nd websling award (extra ball being the 3rd). Getting websling award involves hitting 3 ramps. I don't know their official names, but 2 are off of the upper playfield, and the last one is directly in the center of the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Numanoid View Post
    Any tips or a link to a guide would be appreciated.
    I'm still learning the table, but it seems to me the wizard mode (Clone Chaos) can be worth quite a lot of points. The more times you successfully finish the 4 challenges, the higher the jackpots in Clone Chaos.

    Also, the extra balls aren't too hard to get on this table, so try to get them early. One is the 3rd websling award, and another involves hitting the orbits a lot and spelling SPIDEY.

    Hope this helps.

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    I can probably help with some basics but have only really started to play this table recently.

    Basically you can get an extra ball every ball pretty easily. There are three "websling" ramps. One is straight up the centre, and the other two are only accessable from the top playfield. Hit these one time each you will get a "Celebrated Hero" award. Do the same a second time you will activate "Aunt Mays dinner party" and the third will get an extra ball.

    I also never know how I activate the mysterio stage. I know how to finish his mission once activated just never know how to start it. It definitely has something to do with the captive ball as every time I hit it, he says "you will never find me" or something like that and then a timer starts but I can never see a ramp flashing to hit. I am obviously missing something.

    Once you have done every mode (Doc Ock, Mysterio, Goblin, the picture one) at least once, a light will flash under Mysterios hole. You have to lock 3 balls and this starts "clone chaos" mode. Score here depends on previous scores but I don't know exactly how it works...The rest of it is basically just going through the stages of each mission and seeing how far you can get. Getting the extra ball every time is key for the really high scores though.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit- beaten to it, the guy above said the same things. Interesting about the orbits for extra ball though, I didn't know that
    Last edited by OzV1; 02-10-2011 at 06:45 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZodiacMunch View Post
    I just started playing Spiderman (definitely my least favorite of core2+marvel), but I think I know the answers to some of these questions.

    (btw, some of these answers I think you can find in the ruleset if you go to Help & Options when pausing the game, in case you weren't aware of that)



    I believe this involves hitting the captive ball in the upper playfield and then hitting the shot that mysterio appears above. Not sure if you have to do this more than once, I can't remember.



    I think that about sums it up. Hit things, collect points, be happy. I think party is the 2nd websling award (extra ball being the 3rd). Getting websling award involves hitting 3 ramps. I don't know their official names, but 2 are off of the upper playfield, and the last one is directly in the center of the table.



    I'm still learning the table, but it seems to me the wizard mode (Clone Chaos) can be worth quite a lot of points. The more times you successfully finish the 4 challenges, the higher the jackpots in Clone Chaos.

    Also, the extra balls aren't too hard to get on this table, so try to get them early. One is the 3rd websling award, and another involves hitting the orbits a lot and spelling SPIDEY.

    Hope this helps.
    It does help, thanks. I forgot about the Clone Chaos. I did get to this once, but man, I lost the balls in like 10 seconds. Don't know what happened there. I will look over the rule sheet again and see if it sheds any light.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzV1 View Post
    I can probably help with some basics but have only really started to play this table recently.

    Basically you can get an extra ball every ball pretty easily. There are three "websling" ramps. One is straight up the centre, and the other two are only accessable from the top playfield. Hit these one time each you will get a "Celebrated Hero" award. Do the same a second time you will activate "Aunt Mays dinner party" and the third will get an extra ball.

    I also never know how I activate the mysterio stage. I know how to finish his mission once activated just never know how to start it. It definitely has something to do with the captive ball as every time I hit it, he says "you will never find me" or something like that and then a timer starts but I can never see a ramp flashing to hit. I am obviously missing something.

    Once you have done every mode (Doc Ock, Mysterio, Goblin, the picture one) at least once, a light will flash under Mysterios hole. You have to lock 3 balls and this starts "clone chaos" mode. Score here depends on previous scores but I don't know exactly how it works...The rest of it is basically just going through the stages of each mission and seeing how far you can get. Getting the extra ball every time is key for the really high scores though.

    Hope this helps.
    Thanks, this helps a lot as well. I just found out the third webslinging ramp (the one to the left using the flipper just below Doc Oc) and that is how I was getting the hero, ball, and party stuff. Now I know I gotta hit all 3. I think the Mysterio thing is started by hitting the captive ball and then you have to hit the ramp Mysterio stands over (or by.) Doing this will give you a "random award". I think sometimes he disappears and you need to guess what ramp he's on. My guess is if you do this enough times, you activate his backwards mode.

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    This is a post from Baylorstl from Gamefaqs, clears up a few things.

    1) "Party Time" - Start Aunt May's Dinner Party.

    Aunt May's Dinner Party is a mode started by collecting "Websling" Awards. To collect these awards, you must shoot three ramps: the first and easiest to hit is the corkscrew ramp whose entry is in the middle of the upper playfield, directly beneath the elevated playfield. The other two are accessible from the elevated playfield; the left upper ramp feeds the corkscrew, and the right upper ramp feeds back down the right side of the playfield to the lower right flipper. Each of these ramps is marked with a white/red "Websling" light. These lights are blinking when they are still required to shoot, and solid when you've already made them. Once you hit all three of these ramp shots, in any order, the Websling award is given. The second Websling award will get you the achivement.

    2) "Maximum Clonage" - Start Clone Chaos Multiball.

    Clone Chaos Multiball is effectively the "Wizard mode" of the Spider-Man table. To activate it, you must first successfully complete at least one "level" of each of the four character Stages. These stages are:

    - Green Goblin's Stage
    - Doc Ock's Stage
    - Mysterio's Stage
    - J. Jonah Jameson's Stage

    Each of these stages has a particular requirement to activate and complete.

    Green Goblin: Shoot the Green Goblin ramp (the tarp-covered ramp on the middle right part of the playfield) three times to activate the mode. The Green Goblin will begin throwing one or more orange-colored balls onto the playfield. To complete the stage, you must hit the floating Goblin with an orange ball (pumpkin bomb). To do this, you must shoot a pumpkin bomb ball into one of two ramps. When the Goblin floats on the right side, you must shoot the Goblin ramp to score a hit. If he's on the left side, you must shoot the lower middle Websling ramp (the one that feeds the corkscrew.) The orange light in front of these ramps will be flashing to tell you which to shoot at a given point.

    Doc Ock: Shoot the Doc Ock Lock sinkhole on the mini-playfield (the hole directly to the left of the right ramp) twice to activate Doc Ock's stage. In this stage, Doc Ock will steadily move down the playfield with his tentacles. You must drive him back by hitting each of the three Websling ramps. When you do this, he will move backward. When you move him back to his original position, you've completed the stage.

    Mysterio: To activate this stage, you must first hit the captive ball (which is located directly above the right flipper on the mini-playfield.) This will activate a Mysterio Hurry-Up. In this Hurry-Up, you must shoot whichever shot that Mysterio is hovering above. This could be either the upper web ramp, the left orbit, Goblin's ramp, or the "I'm Unpredictable" sinkhole (which is located at the far right of the playfield.) Shooting the appropriate shot will complete the Hurry-Up. Repeat this process once more, and the next Captive Ball hit will start Mysterio's Stage.

    In Mysterio's Stage, the flippers will be reversed in functionality, but you have a permanent ball-saver active. Within the time limit, you must hit the Goblin Ramp, Doc Ock's sinkhole, and Mysterio's Ramp to complete the stage.

    J. Jonah Jameson: You must shoot the Daily Bugle orbit to activate this stage. The Daily Bugle orbit is a cross playfield orbit shot with an entry directly above the jump ramp and feeds back around to the left orbit, and can usually only be hit from the upper left flipper. Hitting this shot will activate a Hurry-Up which must be collected by shooting the right orbit. Collecting the Hurry-Up completes the stage.

    Once you have completed all of the above stages at least once, Doc Ock's Lock will be lit. Your goal is to lock three balls in that sinkhole. Once you've done that, Clone Chaos multiball begins and you'll get the achievement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapierdwit View Post
    Doc Ock: Shoot the Doc Ock Lock sinkhole on the mini-playfield (the hole directly to the left of the right ramp) twice to activate Doc Ock's stage. In this stage, Doc Ock will steadily move down the playfield with his tentacles. You must drive him back by hitting each of the three Websling ramps. When you do this, he will move backward. When you move him back to his original position, you've completed the stage.
    As far as I can tell, you don't have to hit each of the three Websling ramps to defeat Doc Ock. It seems to be enough to just keep hitting any one of the ramps.

    I just keep hitting the centre ramp over and over, until it builds up to 500K a shot.

    Later, by round 3 or so, it seems to take ages to kill Doc Ock this way, but at 500K a (very easy) shot, I'm not arguing.


    I've just got up to a weird bonus round, not sure how. The music was like Aunt May's Birthday Party, but it wasn't that mode. It started by showing me all my bonuses so far, one after the other, then the music started. No multiball. No timer. Just bonus score after bonus score, with each shot I made. Unfortunately, I drained after a while, so I couldn't tell how long it went for (or what I really had to do). Anyone know what this mode is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    As far as I can tell, you don't have to hit each of the three Websling ramps to defeat Doc Ock. It seems to be enough to just keep hitting any one of the ramps.

    I just keep hitting the centre ramp over and over, until it builds up to 500K a shot.

    Later, by round 3 or so, it seems to take ages to kill Doc Ock this way, but at 500K a (very easy) shot, I'm not arguing.


    I've just got up to a weird bonus round, not sure how. The music was like Aunt May's Birthday Party, but it wasn't that mode. It started by showing me all my bonuses so far, one after the other, then the music started. No multiball. No timer. Just bonus score after bonus score, with each shot I made. Unfortunately, I drained after a while, so I couldn't tell how long it went for (or what I really had to do). Anyone know what this mode is?
    Sorry, as i stated I copied and pasted that from another post. Yes, you can hit any of the websling ramps, I always just nail the middle ramp over and over.

    The weird mode you mention is clone multi-ball. You "complete" it (which starts the actual multi ball portion) by putting three balls into the Doc Ock Lock (I just like typing that.) HOWEVER (Big However) you score major points (we are talking millions per ramp shot) for how far you have gotten on each of the four Missions (Mysterio/Goblin/Doc Ock/J.J. Jamieson) on each of the different ramps. This is NOT even per game/play based but the best you have ever achieved (For instance, I think my best is 13 Doc Ocks in one game, so my bonus is always based on that.) So, it actually can score you more points to NOT start the multiball portion of Clone Multi Ball. I think I was getting something like 3+ million per ramp shot when I set my best score (which I believe is 363M). Hope that helps and someone correct me if I am wrong, have not played this table in a month or so.

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    Ah, I see. Thanks for that.

    Without this mode, I'm finding that my Spidey scores are flat-lining about the 100-120million mark. It's not a hard table, but games are very long (over half an hour for 100 mill), at least the way I'm doing it.

    I'm finding the lack of useful visual clues annoying. e.g. in the inverse flipper Mysterio mode, it's hard to know what to hit without having to look at the rule sheet. Or the whole Mysterio thing in general.

    I'm also having a lot of trouble with nailing the Goblin with two pumpkin bombs in the required time. But that's just my lack of skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Ah, I see. Thanks for that.

    Without this mode, I'm finding that my Spidey scores are flat-lining about the 100-120million mark. It's not a hard table, but games are very long (over half an hour for 100 mill), at least the way I'm doing it.

    I'm finding the lack of useful visual clues annoying. e.g. in the inverse flipper Mysterio mode, it's hard to know what to hit without having to look at the rule sheet. Or the whole Mysterio thing in general.

    I'm also having a lot of trouble with nailing the Goblin with two pumpkin bombs in the required time. But that's just my lack of skill.
    Mysterio mode (The actual challenge) is always the same (Goblin Ramp, Doc Ock's sinkhole, and Mysterio's Ramp) in any order. Just keep track of which ones you have hit and go for the others. I like starting the JJJ stage with this active, With a perma ball saver going, you can not lose and can hit what you want. Also The Green Goblin stage is the most challenging because you HAVE to keep the silver ball alive, so I generally ignore it when it comes up after I have beaten it once. If I hit him and beat him, so be it but I just work on playing the normal ball. The real points are in clone multi-ball so just focus on getting there.

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    Cheers, rapier.

    I got to the stage again, then almost immediately drained. Heh.

    Zen, another Spidey bug (arr arr) for you: round 3 of Green Goblin. Lost the silverball at the same time as a pumpkin bomb drained. No silverball was returned to the table. No ball search, the machine won't tilt, can't proceed. Was on third ball with an extra ball lined up, ~80 million. Had to quit.

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    Zen, another bug: I hit the random reward on the lower left side a few times in succession. The random-reward musical loop started, but it wouldn't stop. It continued until I finished the game, maybe 10 mins later.

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    A good chunk of your points come from clone chaos, also the bonus mode before CC also gives alot if you've beaten a few stages. The ramps (jackpots) become your total bonus (or close to) of all four stages in values, eaisly a few million per shot, so don't get to eager to lock 3 balls and start CC right away. I believe someone mentioned this "pre-mode", it has music like party but is not the official CC mode.

    Party is another big scoring opportunity, each consecutive shot of a ramp increases the score gained by 200K, by repeadetly hitting somthing easy (like gobbies ramp or the middle WS ramp (corkscrew) you can rack up 10's of millions, I believe it maxes out at 2.2 million per shot. Going for different ramps is counterproductive in this mode IMO, just pick a ramp and go to town on it!

    In CC mode the JP's are based on your score/lvl of each mode completed, I try to get a good score on the eaisest of the missions, Photoshoot. Once you master hiting the right orbit from a rolling ball Photoshoot can bring you alot of net points. First through the mission itself (the reward increases by 1M each time, so for 5 attempts your getting roughly 1M +2 +3 +4 + 5 = ~15 mil (say 12M as you never really get the maximum) + the added bonus during CC and CC (Premode)

    Just my 2 cents on scoring, and yes games are Loooooooong on this table, 6 ball games are common with webslinging and 9 ball are very possible with spidey letters. Also spidey letters give progressive bonus' with each letter (including spidy strength (100K bumpers) so it's well woprth getting that left orbit shot down. The DMD will display how many shots for the next letter you need, you can also look (with the x button) at what each bonus is (I don't remember all of them off the top of my head)

    Happy Slinging!

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    As others have posted, a key to scoring big on this table is increasing your record number of times you have beat each "mission". This total will come into play in the pre-clone choas party mode and clone choas itself.

    I posted the info below on another forum about how the Clone Chaos mode calculates scores. The info I posted below is my ramp/orbit score during clone chaos. During the pre-clone party mode, my scores are between 3-4 million.

    The last time I got to Clone Chaos mode, I focused on keeping 2 balls in play. I trapped 1 ball with my right flipper and kept trying to hit the center ramp with my left flipper. If you hit this shot correctly, the ball will return to the left flipper. It is a little more risky than trying to build up score in the pre-mode party, but I was able to rack up 100 million pretty quickly this way.

    Depending on your individual records for the missions, you may want to focus on the pre-chaos party mode.

    Hope this info helps.

    ----------

    Okay, I actually paid attention to what bonus values I'm currently up to in Clone Chaos mode/Wizard Mode on Spiderman.

    (13) J. Jameson = 1,950,000 (Divided by 13 = 150,000)
    (18) Doc Ock = 3,6000,000 (Divided by 18 = 200,000)
    (09) Green Goblin = 2,250,000 (Divided by 9 = 250,000)
    (10) Mysterio = 3,000,000 (Divided by 10 = 300,000)

    10,800,000 for each ramp/orbits hit during Clone Chaos mode. As you can see for me right now that making 10 ramp/orbit shots during Clone Chaos mode is worth 108,000,000. If I were better at keeping more balls in play during this mode (and more patient), it becomes fairly easy to score big points quickly.

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    Kitty defeats Mysterio, but fails the slap save:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU8dOb7WeG4

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    Earning ~32 million per shot, via J.J. Jameson mode...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbdkaZcpItg

    Some judicious use of the nudge there, and waiting for the nudge warnings to reset.

    How does the timing on mode work? You start off with 15 seconds to hit the right loop but eventually it goes back down to 4 seconds? What causes it to go back to 15 seconds? (The loss of a ball?)

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    i guess i know why i will never get into the billion points i simply don't have patience to keep making the same shot over and over again

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    Quote Originally Posted by satch View Post
    i guess i know why i will never get into the billion points i simply don't have patience to keep making the same shot over and over again
    You won't need to, it just helps. Pre-Clone Chaos (just before Wizard Mode) you get up to 3.2m or ramp, during Clone Chaos you get huge points. To get CC you need to do Doc-Ock, Green Goblin, Myserio and J. J. Jameson then lock 4 balls in the Doc-Ock hole. Green Goblin is very hard at the upper levels though, you need to be fast.

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    Default How to get a Billion on Spiderman

    Hypno74 puts up a clinical performance on Spiderman:

    http://youtu.be/gsPtkpaV7k4

    He builds up the JJ Jameson bonus to 62 million per orbit shot, then uses it to score a billion in under five minutes.

    Jeepers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Hypno74 puts up a clinical performance on Spiderman:

    http://youtu.be/gsPtkpaV7k4

    He builds up the JJ Jameson bonus to 62 million per orbit shot, then uses it to score a billion in under five minutes.

    Jeepers.
    Added this to the hints and tips thread. I watched it and I had mixed feelings, I thought he was pretty damn good with the ball, but I thought it was a pretty bad thing for Zen to overlook, it's almost as bad as the Human torch exploit. Still, you need some skill to pull off that kinda bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    Added this to the hints and tips thread. I watched it and I had mixed feelings, I thought he was pretty damn good with the ball, but I thought it was a pretty bad thing for Zen to overlook, it's almost as bad as the Human torch exploit. Still, you need some skill to pull off that kinda bonus.
    Yea, I never liked how the scoring works on this table... Basically the best way to score big is to have full games where you specifically go for 1 repeat mission OVER AND OVER to try and get the number of completions as high as possible since they carry over from game to game... Rinse and repeat for the other 3 missions... (Am I starting to bore you yet? I'm boring myself just thinking about it... lol)

    Once you build them up as high as you can, then you can start to go for a high score by activating the wizard mode... Then it is basically an untimed spamfest

    Honestly, I have very little respect for some of the people above me on the superscore leaderboards that have 1/3 - 2/3 of their superscore coming from Spider-Man. It is WAY too easy to score MASSIVE on this table compared to EVERY other table in the FX2 library... (I mean really 60+ million for EACH SHOT???)

    Spider-Man isn't really a table you "play" for highscore... It's more like you abuse the hell out of it for highscore. It isn't nearly as bad as the F4 glitch because you actually have to earn the points instead of utilizing a well timed drain...

    I actually feel a little forced to max out this table for the healthy superscore boost... I wish there wasn't a table that is head and shoulders above all the others when it comes to high scoring, because if you're competitive like me then you HAVE to play it because everyone around you is taking advantage of poor Spider-Man and scoring BILLIONS on it with ease...

    I love the table design, layout, artwork and sound on Spider-Man... Unfortunately the scoring system has really turned me off to this one. I know a lot of you are going to hate this idea, but I am all for a LB reset on ol' Spidey and a complete overhaul of the table's ruleset... I also think the wizard mode could use a LOT of work... It's hard to even call it a wizard mode since the only objective is to lock balls to start multiball. Clone Chaos should be the reward phase of the wizard mode, with a good 3 or 4 wizard mode objectives you have to complete before you can start locking balls.
    Last edited by KGSoloman8000; 06-26-2011 at 04:37 AM.

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    I guess you could call the ball locking the Wizard phase of the Spidey table, because if you drain after you lock ball 1 you have to start over with all the missions. And I would like to see a 10m cap on the number of points you can get on the shots hypno was doing and maybe putting a two minute timer once you lock ball one in order to start clone chaos or start over on the missions. Just an idea.

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    It definitely needs some adjustments for the table to be taken seriously. Not only is it Rocky and Bullwinkle all over again with breaking the superscore leaderboards, but as far as competitions go, (zen tourneys or player run) it's a terrible table due to the progressive scoring system that carries over from game to game. At this point, as opposed to a full leaderboard reset and changing the table rules, maybe it would be better to leave it how it is and just have this table not count towards superscore anymore. Otherwise, it needs adjustments and a leaderboard reset.

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    Yea, it seems that Spider-Man is a HUGE hit with the more casual players, since just about anyone can keep the ball alive for a long time... I've seen numerous posts on facebook claiming SM as their #1 favorite table.

    The higher tiered players can't stand this table for the most part... I agree with HS, this table is really hard to take seriously.

    Nice point when it comes to competitions and/or tournaments.

    A lot of my scoring gripes could be fixed by not having your completion totals carry over from game to game. Those totals should reset after each game.

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    I do not understand what is bothering you in this table!
    Everyone has the same chance to make big scores.

    There is no cheating, it's just strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypno74 View Post
    I do not understand what is bothering you in this table!
    Everyone has the same chance to make big scores.

    There is no cheating, it's just strategy.
    Hey Hypno74... I've seen a bunch of your videos and you are an awesome player.

    I don't really know how to reply to your post though... I thought I was pretty thorough with my previous posts on why I dislike this table. I never said anything about "cheating" though... It's not cheating to boost your superscore by 3x solely by abusing Spider-Man scoring methods, but don't expect that to translate into respect from other top players who have more legit superscores. (legit might be a bad word, by legit I mean good scores spread across all tables instead of just milking one for all its worth)

    As I said before my main gripe is mission grinding... Devoting entire games to maxing out your mission completions should not be a part of pinball. When you start a new game, everyone should start off on an even playing field. Bonuses should not carry over from game to game... EVER!

    If a scoring system like SMs was on a table IRL, that table would be the laughing stock of the entire pinhead community. It would never be used in any form of competitions and/or tournaments without scoring adjustments.

    Spider-Man is definitely the most glitched in the Marvel 4 pack. It has bugs that will ruin entire games. I've had Doc hold the ball for eternity forcing a restart. I've had the captive ball up top swap out for a pumpkin bomb an then disappear when the mode ends leaving an empty spot up top (for the remainder of the ENTIRE game) where the captured ball used to be preventing me from activating Mysterio's mission (Yes, I know there is an alternate way to activate the missions, but that is no excuse for this glitch). Those are the 2 main ones...

    I love getting up to 500 million on ball 1 only to have some stupid glitch pop up and force me to restart the game... And this used to happen quite frequently to me. I haven't touched the table in months so I don't know if anything on it has been addressed, but I doubt it.
    Last edited by KGSoloman8000; 06-26-2011 at 05:33 PM.

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    I will totally break from the pack here and say that I love the carry over bonus for mission completion. Yea, it is not "pure pinball" or whatever but it is the kind of change you need in video pinball to build re playability. It is akin to earning new weapons and enhancements in COD, it rewards you for time put into a level/table/mode. There is always a chance I will boost my all-time bonus even if I do not beat my previous score, which means I am more apt to play this table than other tables where my only "advancement" is a higher score.

  28. #28
    Senior Member Nekro Neko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypno74 View Post
    I do not understand what is bothering you in this table!
    Everyone has the same chance to make big scores.

    There is no cheating, it's just strategy.
    It's not that everyone is on an uneven footing on that single table, but it destroys the whole superscore up. I guess what makes it bothersome is that it is an unethical way to make a high score.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    It's not that everyone is on an uneven footing on that single table, but it destroys the whole superscore up. I guess what makes it bothersome is that it is an unethical way to make a high score.
    Whats "unethical" is using a known 40x glitch to put up a high score. This high score boosting on Spiderman is in no way unethical because it is part of the table rules. The players with the insane scores are in no way abusing but just using the table rules to their advantage, thats all.

    I think KGSolomon has summed up pretty well what I think about it too, although I don't see any player as "unlegit" in any way. I personally won't rack up my score to super levels on this table because I also don't like how one table dominates the scoring. But that is all within the rules, as Hypno said above so if others like the table than good luck to them. Its personally not one of my favourites.

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    Personally I do not approve the registration of levels, it should not exist.
    I also think that the SuperScore should not be counted with the points but with the rankings

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    I had no idea that Spiderman had such spamming possibilities... I was wondering how the heck the guys managed to get such huge scores? Anyways, I'm done with the table. My goal was to score 1 Billion and I managed it (without I think any crazy boosts per shot... I think in the pre clone mode my scores per shot was around 4 million) and am now rather playing the other tables that are much more technical and involved (and fun!!!).

    I would support a table reset and rulesheet change for the sole reason that this tables scoring is disproportionate to all the other tables (as has been discussed above). It thus makes the super-score not really mean that much... maybe Zen can bring in some other score aggregate where your score is calculated by a score weighting being assigned to each table (e.g. your score on Rome is worth much more than your score on Spiderman). The weighting can be adjusted over time by the average scores being achieved on each table by all players. The most difficult tables will have the lowest average score and will thus have the highest weighting in this scoring aggregate. I think a holes stroke value in Golf is a similar concept.

    In the end it would be much easier though if Zen just brings Spidermans scoring potential (through and updated rulesheet) into proportion to the other tables.
    Last edited by Cloda; 06-26-2011 at 07:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypno74 View Post
    Personally I do not approve the registration of levels, it should not exist.
    I also think that the SuperScore should not be counted with the points but with the rankings
    Totally agree...and wouldn't be so complicated to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzV1 View Post
    Whats "unethical" is using a known 40x glitch to put up a high score.
    Touche, though it wasn't something I've been proud of, I could beat the score I posted though I'm sure without that glitch. I think you have read me wrong, I do not condone cheating and I am against it, I was simply curious when I did that exploit. It is also perfectly reasonable to suggest that that exploit can be executed purely by accident too. I haven't played that table much since and waiting for a patch and reset before attacking the table again.

    I also work as a moderator on a highscore based website, testing to see how a table can be broken is key knowledge and why Fantastic Four is currently not added whereas Spider has been.
    Last edited by Nekro Neko; 06-26-2011 at 08:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzV1 View Post
    Whats "unethical" is using a known 40x glitch to put up a high score.
    The glitch was first discovered by RC Racer, and Nekro was just the first one to test it out. You can't really hold that against him too much. Of course, everyone knows he shouldn't have finished the game and allowed it to post the the leaderboards... But maybe he did the right thing to point out to Zen what is possible with a DRAIN! I have no doubt that F4 will see a LB reset, so his boosted score is only temporary...

    Sorry to hijack this thread and use it for SM bashing... I just really have negative feelings about this particular table.

    I just see it way too often, add a guy to your friends list... His superscore is around 4k so you think he might be a pretty good player, until you look at his scores for each table. 3+ billion on SM, and sub 50MM scores on every other table... What does that tell you?

    I'm glad to hear most of you guys agree with me on this issue. I wonder if Zen has something lined up for Spider-Man in the future... I can only hope.

    But like I said earlier in another thread... I don't want Zen to take a break releasing new tables to fix the current ones. I can live with the flaws of Spider-Man, like I said I haven't touched it in months. It just throws the superscore out of whack for people (like me) who don't feel like abusing SM to the fullest.

    I am looking forward to the FX2.5 patch to see what it brings to the table. I have a feeling a majority of our complaints will be addressed in this major update.

    I think it is expected this fall, but I'm not sure where I read that info... so it could be completely false.

    EDIT: Here is quote from Solitude that he posted in the Captain America thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    It's funny. I designed several new systems for Pinball FX2 without having played the last couple CoD games, and it turns out that several features were nearly identical to CoD's, including the one you mention.

    It's not coming until late next year probably, but it's definitely the next major step for the game.
    I don't know if we are referring to the same patch, but if so I was way off and it will be coming out late 2012. I wonder how many tables the FX2 library will have by then... 40 I hope .
    Last edited by KGSoloman8000; 06-26-2011 at 10:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypno74 View Post
    Personally I do not approve the registration of levels, it should not exist.
    I also think that the SuperScore should not be counted with the points but with the rankings
    An overall ranking system that combines your current rank on all the tables would be perfect. But I am sure someone will have a problem with it.

    As for other other topic in this thread: considering Zen has not even officially acknowledged the FF 40x glitch, If you are holding your breath for a leader board reset, you may be without air for a long time. Might as well hold your breath for a Frenzy Multiball change on Buccaneer, Witch's Score removal on Nightmare Mansion, Air Stike Multi-ball change on Earth Defense or any number of other grinds on Zen's tables that "throw off the scoring."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloda View Post
    In the end it would be much easier though if Zen just brings Spidermans scoring potential (through and updated rulesheet) into proportion to the other tables.
    IMO, a bigger issue is the one of SuperScore.

    I just don't think it works as a concept, because every table has different scoring potentials. Compare Iron Man to MARS, for example.

    I think the SupersScore needs a different kind of metric, where games are rated according to some per-game "par" score, instead of being compared against the scores of other tables.

    That way, it'd be perfectly fine for some table to award you billions in multiball, and some other tables to award you thousands.

    Anywaaaaaaay, a big thanks to Hypno74 for taking the time to make and post the video. I don't think anyone here can seriously doubt his skills. (Certainly far better than me on this table!)
    Last edited by Womble; 06-26-2011 at 11:18 PM.

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    A different metric for superscore would be a welcome change. Either base it on rank on each table, or a weight system where certain tables are worth different amounts based on a constantly evolving average or 'par' score for the table based on current leaderboard progression, as others have suggested.

    That still doesn't fix my main gripe with Spiderman, which is the carry-over from game to game. It completely destroys any competition value this table has, as not all players start on even footing. People who have owned the table longer, and played more have an edge, hard coded into the rules of the table, over people who just bought and started playing the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekro Neko View Post
    Touche, though it wasn't something I've been proud of, I could beat the score I posted though I'm sure without that glitch. I think you have read me wrong, I do not condone cheating and I am against it, I was simply curious when I did that exploit. It is also perfectly reasonable to suggest that that exploit can be executed purely by accident too. I haven't played that table much since and waiting for a patch and reset before attacking the table again.

    I also work as a moderator on a highscore based website, testing to see how a table can be broken is key knowledge and why Fantastic Four is currently not added whereas Spider has been.
    Fair enough, I really just read your comment and couldn't resist because while personally I don't like the scoring of SM table and how it throws things out of whack, it is the rules of the table so any score posted on this table, no matter how high is all fair play. Exploiting a known glitch, that isn't part of table rules, "just to see" is not fair play imo. It had already been pointed out and found by accident and Zen hadn't at the time and still haven't given any official word of what they are going to do with the F4 table. I actually love the concept of being able to line something up, strategy/scoring wise in a game with the 40x flaming ball and pull off a good score but that ballout thing has made me (and I know others) not want to play the table.

    For the record though I don't think you are some huge cheater, I know your a good pinball player and overall gamer, its just when you do stuff like this it can always leave a black mark. Granted, by you doing it, it was pointed out and "proven" but like I said above, this was already done and could have been tested and proven by the people who designed the table with the information that had been provided.

    As for Spiderman, I think if they are going to change it to be more inline with other tables, it just maybe needs limits to how much you can raise the levels or make extra balls harder to get. Just my ideas though, fans of this table probably wouldn't want anything changed and I can understand that because there is nothing I would change about my favourite tables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heathenSauce View Post
    That still doesn't fix my main gripe with Spiderman, which is the carry-over from game to game. It completely destroys any competition value this table has, as not all players start on even footing. People who have owned the table longer, and played more have an edge, hard coded into the rules of the table, over people who just bought and started playing the table.
    Three words. Call of Duty.
    I respect everyone's opinion of it (Especially Your opinion Heathen), and I see the pros and cons. That being said, I can't say I fault Zen for taking different approaches in an attempt to prolong the multi-player/challenge aspect of the game. Spiderman may be the Table equivalent of the Noob Tube but I like that they took the chance and the "casual" audience seems to adore this table (Check out Zen's Facebook) even if they are the ones would would be most negatively affected by not playing it all the time.
    As I said previously, an overall ranking taking all of your table ranks into account would seem to be the best system and would be an incentive for anyone to purchase all the tables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapierdwit View Post
    Three words. Call of Duty.
    I respect everyone's opinion of it (Especially Your opinion Heathen), and I see the pros and cons. That being said, I can't say I fault Zen for taking different approaches in an attempt to prolong the multi-player/challenge aspect of the game. Spiderman may be the Table equivalent of the Noob Tube but I like that they took the chance and the "casual" audience seems to adore this table (Check out Zen's Facebook) even if they are the ones would would be most negatively affected by not playing it all the time.
    As I said previously, an overall ranking taking all of your table ranks into account would seem to be the best system and would be an incentive for anyone to purchase all the tables.
    I respect that they tried something different, and I hope they continue to innovate. But with the platform tying everything in like it currently does, and ZEN official tourneys and player run competitions, this table becomes significantly out of place. If each table had a tournament mode, which in Spider Man's case could not carry over your best levels, or better yet, player customizable rules sets, which could be shared among friends and leagues, with leaderboards for the custom rules that didn't affect superscore, but could be used for player-run competitions would be a great way to help fix this, and scoring issues that may arise with future tables.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    <snip>

    How does the timing on mode work? You start off with 15 seconds to hit the right loop but eventually it goes back down to 4 seconds? What causes it to go back to 15 seconds? (The loss of a ball?)
    Anyone have an answer for this?? Increasing the time to hit the orbit from 4 seconds??
    Check out my youtube videos for basic pinball strategies: caperUnderscore26

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    Quote Originally Posted by caper_26 View Post
    Anyone have an answer for this?? Increasing the time to hit the orbit from 4 seconds??
    I think the timer for that resets to 15 seconds around level 45 or 46. This is from this thread https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthr...-GP-Season-One on 11-22-11 by Nekro Neko.

    -B

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    thanks dude. I knew my timer reset at some point, and wasn't sure if it was because I did the CC mission or if I lost a ball. Anyway, got to level 90 anyway for JJ, worth over 26M during bonus. Time to get my dismal hero score up. hero scores should be weighted according to table difficulty IMO
    do you know if the GG mission timer resets ? I find after a few of his missions, the time expires so fast it is impossible to finish, especially during the 2 bomb mission with him flying back and forth like a flea on a hot-plate...
    Check out my youtube videos for basic pinball strategies: caperUnderscore26

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    Quote Originally Posted by caper_26 View Post
    thanks dude. I knew my timer reset at some point, and wasn't sure if it was because I did the CC mission or if I lost a ball. Anyway, got to level 90 anyway for JJ, worth over 26M during bonus. Time to get my dismal hero score up. hero scores should be weighted according to table difficulty IMO
    do you know if the GG mission timer resets ? I find after a few of his missions, the time expires so fast it is impossible to finish, especially during the 2 bomb mission with him flying back and forth like a flea on a hot-plate...
    I have never heard of anyone who reset the gg timer. I hope they post a video of it to YouTube and brag about it if they do! Heard even doc ock gets somewhat unbeatable in the low 20's or high teens.

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    Guess this is the best thread for this....

    Hall of Fame - 10,000 points
    Default bonus

    Spidey Letter - 20,000 points per letter
    Lighting up a SPIDEY letter via the left or right orbit

    Rooftop jumps - 5,000 points per jump
    Hitting Spiderman's and Mary Jane's house. I believe MJ has to appear for it to count, ie I don't think counts if hit during a mission.

    Spidey Sense - 5,000 or 10,000 points per hit.
    I haven't figured this one out yet.

    Front Page Picture - 30,000 points per hit.
    The Front Page picture replaces the Johan Jameson mission after a villian is defeated (Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Mysterio). It remains until the shot is hit or the ball is lost.

    Skill Shot - 30,000 points per hit.
    Hit the skill shot hole hidden behind the bumpers.

    Commentary: As the above thread shows, for a high scoring table, the end of ball bonuses yield a rather low reward, at least compared to the rest of the table. Still, you can rack up an okay amount of points just by default just by keeping the ball alive.
    Tables completed: Ms Splosion Man, Spiderman, BioLab, Captain America, Empire Strikes Back, The Avengers, Wolverine, World War Hulk, Sorcerer's Lair, Fantastic Four, Blade, X-Men, Thor, Moon Knight, Infinity Gauntlet, Super League Football, Starfighter Assault, Han Solo
    Billionaire's Club: Spider-Man, World War Hulk, The Avengers, Sorcerer's Lair, Empire Strikes Back, Captain America, Ms. Splosion Man, Han Solo

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    Yeah, i think the carryover of best stage completion is rather unfair in this table.

    The keys to the table are extra balls, ball savers, kickbacks, party mode, and clone chaos.

    Extra Ball. THese are east to get from the webslinger awards, aloogn with party mode.

    THere's a catch with the kickbacks and ball savers. none of the ramps feed the inlanes. but the doc oc hole, and the jameson loop DO feed them. So relight the kickbacks and ball saver by playing Jameson and doc oc over and over and over again. Jameson mode NEVER gets any harder. EVER.

    Party mode is a good amount of points, and each time you start it it gets better. i don't think there is a cap per shot. I've gotten over 2.2 million from a shot in it.

    Mysterio mode is hard to start. you have to whack the captive ball, then shoot the ramp he's hovering over, and you have to do it multiple times. but eventually the mode will start. then you turn the controller over.

    Doc Oc mode is easiest to finish by pounding the crap out of the center ramp over and over again. but the upper playfield ramps also work. Fairly grindable.

    Green Goblin mode starts getting HARD really fast. the stage timer keeps getting shorter each time. And draining ANY ball ends the mode prematurely. at least if you drain the silver ball you get it back after the pumpkins poof.

    And of course, J. Jonah mode. This is the easiest to grind, because it NEVER gets any more difficult.

    Once you've grinded some stages up really high (like in the 30s if you can, but even 15 is good) you are ready to make your big run.

    Start clone chaos by locking three balls. You will get insane points per shot. Trap one ball on the lower right flipper, and get another one onto the upper playfield. keep shooting the jump ramp till the cows come home. It will roll off the raised flipper and keep coming back down for an easy shot at the jump ramp.

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    btw here is how i would fix spiderman.

    1) fix jameson grinding. force you to defeat a villain before starting jameson mode. Say your stage totals for the game for the other three modes are 1, 2, and 3 for this game. you can start jameson six times before it wont' start anymore and you need to defeat another villain. This makes sense from a story standpoint. First you fight the villain, and snap the pictures during the fight, and THEN you bring them to jameson.

    2) fix clone chaos abusing. If you hold a flipper up for a few seconds the shots stop scoring, and you need to drop the flippers. this is to force you to play it by flailing around as intended. Alternatively, make it so scoring a shot unlights it until you shoot a different one (stops abusing center ramp looping)

    these two changes should bring it's scoring down to earth.

    If you can still grind jameson up to 200 after that, you deserve your uber score.
    Last edited by zaphod77; 07-19-2013 at 04:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphod77 View Post
    btw here is how i would fix spiderman.

    1) fix jameson grinding. force you to defeat a villain before starting jameson mode. Say your stage totals for the game for the other three modes are 1, 2, and 3 for this game. you can start jameson six times before it wont' start anymore and you need to defeat another villain. This makes sense from a story standpoint. First you fight the villain, and snap the pictures during the fight, and THEN you bring them to jameson.

    2) fix clone chaos abusing. If you hold a flipper up for a few seconds the shots stop scoring, and you need to drop the flippers. this is to force you to play it by flailing around as intended. Alternatively, make it so scoring a shot unlights it until you shoot a different one (stops abusing center ramp looping)

    these two changes should bring it's scoring down to earth.

    If you can still grind jameson up to 200 after that, you deserve your uber score.
    1.) The background is that Peter sells pics of himself as spiderman to JJ to make a living. So no it doesnt make sense from a story standpoint, sorry. Your suggestion also adds in an confusing system to an otherwise simple one. Really the only other alterantive to whats in the game currently is a 1:1 mission system, that is to say you do one JJ loop per mission complete.

    2.) That is completely counter intuative to a good pinball player where ball control is the key to scoring. The mode is not intended to be flailed at, its intended to stretch your ball control skills to the limit. It is not intended to force you to hit the flippers 24/7. Flipper holds are part and parcel of playing pinball, to cut those out by killing scoring simply handicaps good players.

    The only thing that can be considered "wrong" on the table is that it records your mission level between games. Even considering that the table doesnt need "fixing" its working as intended.

    The system is not "unfair" as some have said, it simply rewards those who played it longer with bigger scores. The players who have uber scores already, deserve those uber scores. No-one has used bugs or code exploits to gain an unfair advantage. And there is no such thing as "abusing" a feature of a table. Its not an RPG or FPS game. Its pinball, it doesnt matter how you get the score as long as its legit.
    Last edited by lexandro; 07-19-2013 at 03:49 PM.

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    Perhaps you remember a table known as gladiators in real life.

    it had a calm before the storm mode. it was a multiball, and every shot scored points. and t was REALLY EASY to get a ball trapped on the lower left flipper and one on the upper right, and then make a single shot until the cows come home. this happened during a tournament, and a ruling had to be made on the spot to fix it, declaring that you HAD to stop after you got the bonus to over 600 million points.

    A later rom revision fixed this. Once you made one shot, it unlit that shot, and only that shot, until you shot a different one, and then it would relight the one you shot.

    that's one of my suggested fixes for clone chaos. that way if you shoot the web ramp, you then have to shoot a different shot before the web ramp will score it's bonus again.

    And yes he takes pics of himself, but they are of the battling with the villain of the week. so it makes a lot of sense to make you defeat the villain before supplying the pictures.

    Jameson mode is really easy to grind over and over.

    shoot upper playfield. let ball drain from it shoot jameson loop. shoot orbit, shoot up jump ramp. repeat.

    that's why it really needs that fix. it simply cannot be made more significantly more difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphod77 View Post
    Perhaps you remember a table known as gladiators in real life.

    it had a calm before the storm mode. it was a multiball, and every shot scored points. and t was REALLY EASY to get a ball trapped on the lower left flipper and one on the upper right, and then make a single shot until the cows come home. this happened during a tournament, and a ruling had to be made on the spot to fix it, declaring that you HAD to stop after you got the bonus to over 600 million points.

    A later rom revision fixed this. Once you made one shot, it unlit that shot, and only that shot, until you shot a different one, and then it would relight the one you shot.

    that's one of my suggested fixes for clone chaos. that way if you shoot the web ramp, you then have to shoot a different shot before the web ramp will score it's bonus again.

    And yes he takes pics of himself, but they are of the battling with the villain of the week. so it makes a lot of sense to make you defeat the villain before supplying the pictures.

    Jameson mode is really easy to grind over and over.

    shoot upper playfield. let ball drain from it shoot jameson loop. shoot orbit, shoot up jump ramp. repeat.

    that's why it really needs that fix. it simply cannot be made more significantly more difficult.
    Thats all completely irrelevant to this game. What may or may not have happened with your anecdotal evidence has no bearing on Spiderman table scoring. But I would like to point out that ;
    a.) The tournament organiser (whomever it may have been) was at fault for chosing a table with a known extreme high scoring potential that would cause problems in a real world tournament format.
    b.) telling a player to stop playing a particular legit way (within the game rules) because they are doing "too well" is idiotic at best, and is a deliberate handicap of a skilled player. This calls in to question the validity and trustworthyness of the tournament management.
    c.) the fact the table may or may not have been changed later indicates that if it was changed that the designers did not intend it the mode to be as rewarding and reworked it.

    As it pertains to Spiderman; The table is working as intended, it is designed to be a relatively simple table to score on and to reward long term play of it. The fact that players like blue have incredible high scores has been done to death and Zen themselves have said they are legit and will stand on the leaderboard. To make changes to the tables ruleset now would infact be detrimental to new players, unless the leaderboard scores were wiped competely. In which case a lot of Zen customers would be extremely unhappy at having their hard earned scores wiped out just because a handful of people dont like the ease of scoring and complained.

    To sum up then, the table wont be getting any rule changes as Zen themselves have never indicated they would even consider doing so.
    Last edited by lexandro; 07-20-2013 at 04:17 AM.

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    I agree it's probably too late to change the game now, but i have to think that grinding jameson up to stage 200+ could not have been an intended strategy.

    Before it was fixed for Pinball FX 2, the first part of the wizard mode was untimed, and you could just hit the orbit till the cows came home. now it times out if you don't lock a ball in 35 seconds. this was a very good fix to that part. You all saw that on youtube.

    AS for the real tournament, you had to have been there. without making that rule, the last player to go would have won for sure, because all he had to do was reach that mode again, and set up the double trap. the shot was even easier than gunship hurry up mode, and without a timer, and you could trap the ball after each shot. Shot was two inches wide and shot form a flipper three inches away. i think you see the issue.

    anyway, lets say you grind jameson up to 200. lets also say you lose 20 percent of the points to hurry up countdown. you still get 16 billion from jameson alone. you need 268 orbits in the wizard mode to do that.

    Jameson is sort of like the spinner in star trek next generation where if you focus on it enough it overwhelms everything else on the table.

  52. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    240

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    I see what your saying but it is intended strategy. JJ and the other missions effectively "pay in" to the wizard mode also, the more missions levels you have the bigger the wizard jackpot. And you dont have to grind JJ, while its certainly the simplest you could do the same thing with any mission mode be it Doc Oc, Goblin or Mysterio. Infact with my style of play, doing Goblin missions is where I tend to get most of the scoring outside of wizard mode just because that right ramp is so easy to hit over and over again.

    The simplest solution would have been a 1:1 per mission ramp. Meaning you have to hit them all once before it "loops" back again so you cant spam JJ. But it is what it is, an easy scoring table. Remember if you want a challenge there are other tables with much trickier scoring patterns and modes. Imo Pasha or SotD are way harder than Spidey.

  53. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    156

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    i figured out some more strategy.

    1) perpetual kickbacks and ballsaves. The following shots all three feed an inlane. J.J. loop, doc ock hole, and left upper ramp.

    To get inlane letters without making progress, the combo is right orbit, jump ramp, left upper ramp. If you hit the jameson loop instead of the jump ramp, you also get an inlane letter and there is never a downside to J.J. mode. So once you figure that out, you can get lotsa kickbacks.

    2) Clone Chaos madness

    There are lots of repeatable shots. The following can all be shot repeatedly with a ball trapped on the other flipper.

    a) Websling ramp. shoot from left flipper, feeds left flipper.
    b) Green Goblin Ramp. shootable from either flipper, can be backhanded by holding up right flipper. You can do this with a ball trapped on left flipper, and green goblin battle will never start as long as you are in clone chaos.
    c) Jump ramp. hold ball on right flipper shoot jump ramp , let ball drain from upper playfield, shoot jump ramp... It will eventually divert to the lower right flipper. you can also try to whack the captive ball area or shoot the right ramp, and go to looping the webslinger ramp.

    3) J.J. Grind.
    Master that right orbit. Right orbit to jump ramp to drain from upper field to JJ loop. repeat ad nauseum. Try and make at least 50. At this point clone chaos will be respectable. And the grind advances spidey letters to extra ball as well.

    4) Combine party mode and green goblin. More balls=more shooting.

    5) if the doc ock hole is the shot remaining in mysterio mode, simply drain to set up a shot at the jump ramp.

    6) if your version of spiderman gives you a 35 second timer to lock balls in wizard mode, it's much better to lock them early. If you have no timer, then feel free to shoot that orbit till the cows come home.

    7) the websling ramp and the green goblin ramp are you best shots in party mode, because they return the ball rapidly.

    8) Incredible Jumps sadly overrides Aunt May's Party scoring, so don't expect to get big points combining the two. You CAN, however, combine incredible jumps and J.J. grinding, which means the ball will not divert to lower right flipper no matter how many times in a row you tag that jump ramp.

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