PB FX vs Williams Collection

**Womble** · 02-27-2011, 02:40 AM

Although the tables are realistically modelled, I don't agree that PHOF's physics are authentic. Compare and contrast them to a video of Medieval Madness in action, for example. (There's something quite wrong with the PHOF's gravity, for starters.)

More thoughts here:

http://195.56.170.66/forum/showpost.php?p=8067&postcount=50

In any case, it's a bit moot. For all intents and purposes, PHOF looks to be somewhat abandoned at this point. (Despite being ported to the NGP!) There haven't been any updates, no table fixes, no DLC (where oh where is Attack from Mars????), the international distribution rights are all screwed up, etc.

It's a big shame, because it's a solid product with very valuable licenses. And competition is always good.

BTW, Zen is showing new tables at GDC in a few days time. I suspect one of them will be Sorcerer's Lair, maybe, but more Marvel tables are probably coming soon.

Solitude also suggested that a table would be released this month -- presumably Mars or Paranormal -- but my calendar is making a fibber of him. Come on Solitude, crack that whip, badger the team, you can do eeeet! :-)

**Solitude** · 02-27-2011, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Womble

Solitude also suggested that a table would be released this month -- presumably Mars or Paranormal -- but my calendar is making a fibber of him. Come on Solitude, crack that whip, badger the team, you can do eeeet! :-)

Unfortunately, your calendar is right. The next table won't be out until March. The good news is that releases should be pretty regular after that.

**Vincent** · 02-27-2011, 05:38 PM

What about the patch ?

**IAMMRBONGO** · 02-28-2011, 07:20 PM

I'm a bit peaved with the whole PHOF thing at the moment. Still not available in the UK. Crave promised we'd be getting gottlieb collection on XBLA in January and their marketing people seem quite intent to keep us all in the dark. They don't answer emails or the hordes of fans on facebook asking what's going on.

As for the physics. I've looked at videos and I don't see any evidence of them being better than fx. They remind me of VP and contrary to what everybody else thinks I don't see the physics as being that realistic. True, FX ball has more spin on the ball but real pinball has more ball spin on the ball that VP.

For me fx feels more solid than the others. None of them seem like a real pinball. I don't see the FX ball being heavier either I see the play-field tilt as being over 9 degrees. Though I've never played with the table settings before so I don't know.

**heathenSauce** · 02-28-2011, 07:35 PM

PHOF Williams seems to handle collisions in a more believable fashion to me. Both ball against table feature, and ball against ball. This is especially noticeable to players who have played the physical tables. The ball reacts much differently when it hits plastic, metal or rubber. Nudges are also handled a little better, but still doesn't come close to giving the player the control they would have over a physical table. On the whole, the physics are only marginally better than FX2 on the core and marvel tables. The older FX tables still feel like the physics are out of whack a bit.

The main problem with PHOF Williams is either the gravity or table friction is off by a good amount. If you have played these tables in real life and then play them in the game you notice some serious moon ball effects. FX2 is significantly better in this regard.

**IAMMRBONGO** · 02-28-2011, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by heathenSauce

PHOF Williams seems to handle collisions in a more believable fashion to me. Both ball against table feature, and ball against ball. This is especially noticeable to players who have played the physical tables. The ball reacts much differently when it hits plastic, metal or rubber. Nudges are also handled a little better, but still doesn't come close to giving the player the control they would have over a physical table. On the whole, the physics are only marginally better than FX2 on the core and marvel tables. The older FX tables still feel like the physics are out of whack a bit.

The main problem with PHOF Williams is either the gravity or table friction is off by a good amount. If you have played these tables in real life and then play them in the game you notice some serious moon ball effects. FX2 is significantly better in this regard.

You see it's the moon ball effect that makes me think these things are unrealistic rather than the collision detection and absorption rates of different plastics and metals. They just don't feel as solid to me. I play a bit of Visual Pinball and that feels pretty unpredictable at times. This is kind of like a real table but not. I think the frame rate has a lot to do with it too. The framerate on FX always seems to be great.

I always found FX1 was less predictable but more realistic than FX2 though I've not really gone back as I kind of like the predictability. I play spiderman a lot down my local bowling alley and it doesn't feel like any of the computer sims.

I guess even realism is a little subjective and everybody keeps saying that PHOF and VP are more realistic so I'd guess the majority are probably right.

I think the nudge is what lets FX down slightly. I don't even do it that much.

**Logic_FTW** · 03-01-2011, 12:28 PM

I understand the Moon Ball effect, but its closer to how a free falling ball acts when coming into contact with a flipper In PBHOF oppsed to FX. Very rarly will you see a Live game that vollys a ball between the slingshots 10 times. Even 6 times. Its normaly a 1-2 mabey 3 and its out there, long gone. Also traping a ball to a dead stop only to see the ball spinning on the flipper, that just dosent happen IRL or PBhOF. My main litmus yest was drop stopping. It works IRL, it works in PBHOF, it dosent work in FX.

That being said dont think I'm "knocking" ZEN. Id buy a strawberry shortcake table from them if they made it

**Solitude** · 03-02-2011, 02:14 PM

The slingshots in our tables are intentionally weaker than real slingshots, which is why longer volleys occur. The reason for this is that we don't like having the slingshots throw the ball into the outlanes as many real tables tend to.

Williams for 3DS is showing at GDC, by the way.

**heathenSauce** · 03-02-2011, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Solitude

The slingshots in our tables are intentionally weaker than real slingshots, which is why longer volleys occur. The reason for this is that we don't like having the slingshots throw the ball into the outlanes as many real tables tend to.

Williams for 3DS is showing at GDC, by the way.

Any sign of Gottlieb for the 360?

Also is there any word on when we can expect an announcement for the title update and new tables for FX2?

**Logic_FTW** · 03-02-2011, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Solitude

The slingshots in our tables are intentionally weaker than real slingshots, which is why longer volleys occur. The reason for this is that we don't like having the slingshots throw the ball into the outlanes as many real tables tend to.

Williams for 3DS is showing at GDC, by the way.

Fair, but the SlingShots in FX tables are also alot more sensitive then IRL . Just look at them the wrong way and they trigger. If a ball rolls up off a flipper into a slingshot you can kiss it good bye, where IRL a more direct contact is needed.

**satch** · 03-02-2011, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Solitude

Williams for 3DS is showing at GDC, by the way.

Thanks for the info...erm but i live in the uk and been waiting about 3 years for a uk wii release of williams and about 1 year for the 360 version so i shant hold my breath

**Logic_FTW** · 03-02-2011, 07:23 PM

Sorry to hear that. At least ZEN loves you enough to give you pinball. Really you're not missing much, just medieval madness, Arbian nights, whirlwind and no good gophers. Anyone who's only played zen would get on a table like GorGar or space shuttle and be severly dissapointed. PB has come along way.

BTW not sure if this was mentioned but MM and Wolverine sure do have alot in common....

**Womble** · 03-02-2011, 10:18 PM

@ Logic, can you elaborate?

I can't really see it myself. Wolverine seems a much tighter, smaller table. I guess you could make a case for the castle/calendar in a way, but I think MM is more of a pick-your-own-adventure table whereas I play Wolverine mainly for two ramp shots. MM seems more free-flowing.

I quite like PHOF's rendition of Space Shuttle. Yes, it has a moonball (arr arr) but it's still fun to play.

And now that Bowen has put up a lengthy video tutorial of No Good Gofers on Vimeo, I'm interested in playing that table more too.

The inclusion of Jive Time is a bit of a joke. Why they bothered is beyond me, when they could have reached instead for Attack from Mars, (possibly) Cirqus Voltaire, (possibly) Theatre of Magic or White Water.

**Logic_FTW** · 03-03-2011, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Womble

@ Logic, can you elaborate?

I can't really see it myself. Wolverine seems a much tighter, smaller table. I guess you could make a case for the castle/calendar in a way, but I think MM is more of a pick-your-own-adventure table whereas I play Wolverine mainly for two ramp shots. MM seems more free-flowing.

I quite like PHOF's rendition of Space Shuttle. Yes, it has a moonball (arr arr) but it's still fun to play.

And now that Bowen has put up a lengthy video tutorial of No Good Gofers on Vimeo, I'm interested in playing that table more too.

The inclusion of Jive Time is a bit of a joke. Why they bothered is beyond me, when they could have reached instead for Attack from Mars, (possibly) Cirqus Voltaire, (possibly) Theatre of Magic or White Water.

Yeah an of those tables would have been better, Jive time is even locked so, bleh, Voltair would have been awsum.

Ok so the MM Wolv Comparison. Not in rueset persay but in layout

You have a main left and right ramp. (BOND, FASTBALL) (PEASANT, DAMSAL) both require multipl hits to activate a "mode" or "Prize"

The Snickt Saucer is right where the Cannonball Wham is. The Amneisa Saucer functions much like merlins magic and is in the same spot on table.

Yes, the middle saucer and the castles. Big payoff, easy drain.

The layout just feels very familiar, 2 main ramps, saucers, and a central target. Bumpers are in same spot. Hand ninjas? Trolls anyone?

Also MM isnt really pick your own adjenture. Its about hitting orbits and raps, then getting MB MADNESS!!! then getting royal madness, then going to defeat the king of payne. Trust me in the same way bucuneer is build with Adams family in mind, Wolv is Built with MM in mind. There are alot of similarities. Its obv not a clone, but the layout is really close.

PB FX vs Williams Collection

PB FX vs Williams Collection

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