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Thread: Rocky and Bullwinkle scores

  1. #1

    Default Rocky and Bullwinkle scores

    ugh.... Zen... why??? That was my best score out of all the tables too... spent hours trying to get 180m..

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    Thumbs down

    I agree took me ages to get 130m i also lost 2,000 wizard score

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    Now that they fixed the scoring on it, anyone want to do a table guide

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    As you may have noticed (and as I hinted earlier), the Rocky and Bullwinkle leaderboard was reset, and changes were made to the table rules.

    The official statement:

    "Dear Pinball FX2 owners, we’ve discovered an error in how the Rocky & Bullwinkle table awards points, a problem that has resulted in some astronomically inflated scores and had a disproportionate effect on Superscores. As part of the update to fix the problem, we must reset the Rocky & Bullwinkle leaderboards. We apologize to all the players who have put time and effort into improving their score. All other leaderboards will be unaffected; this should be the last time we have to do a reset."

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    I fully support that the Rocky & Bullwinkle high score leaderboard was reset (even though I had around 4 billion). However, if you reset the scores on this one game you MUST reset the Superscore leaderboard. I would also like a reset on the Wizard score leaderboard as well. I would prefer that the Superscore leaderboard represent the current rules of Pinball FX2, and not reflect a previous "broken" scoring system from Rocky & Bullwinkle.

    A huge part of the replay factor of this game was trying to improve on all of my scores. Now that there is a 4000 point difference (4 billion actual) between my new adjusted Superscore and the Superscore leaderboard, I find it highly unlikely that I will improve on all of the remaining tables to recoop what I lost from Rocky & Bullwinkle. While I certainly could devote more time to becoming a better player on various tables, this level of dedication would remove the fun factor for me and ultimately become a disincentive to replayability.

    I respectfully request that Zen reset the Superscore leaderboard to reflect everyone's current Superscore.

    Thanks for providing & supporting a great product.

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    Junior Member oldson's Avatar
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    The amount of time it took me to get 140 odd million and you destroy it in 1 second, yeah thanks.

    Its been my most unfavoured table since purchase, I talked a friend into buying fx2 and he dominated that particular table.
    So just when I kick his sorry butt, along comes zen

    not best pleased!!!!!!

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    Jeez people - get over it! There are some good reasons why the score has been reset. If I was you I would anyways forget about this and the other FX 1 tables and spend the time I have on the much better FX2 core and Marvel tables - Oh wait.... I am doing that. That is apart from Earth Defense and Excalibur.

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    Getting over it mmmmmmmmm, don't think so.

    Which table is going to be next?

    "Oh sorry, you're not supposed to get that high a score, reset".
    Why was this exploit or whatever its being called in the finished/hopefully tested, game?

    I know sometimes things get overlooked and accept that. (Gears2)
    But to just wipe it all clean the day after I get 140m+, made me feel like *delete*delete*

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    For the record, Zen signalled some time ago that R&B's scoring would be fixed and that people shouldn't get comfortable with their existing scores.

  10. #10

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    It messes with the superscore leaderboard now though :/ since our superscore is updated after a game of R&B but the superscore leaderboard hasn't been wiped !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    As you may have noticed (and as I hinted earlier), the Rocky and Bullwinkle leaderboard was reset, and changes were made to the table rules.

    The official statement:

    "Dear Pinball FX2 owners, we’ve discovered an error in how the Rocky & Bullwinkle table awards points, a problem that has resulted in some astronomically inflated scores and had a disproportionate effect on Superscores. As part of the update to fix the problem, we must reset the Rocky & Bullwinkle leaderboards. We apologize to all the players who have put time and effort into improving their score. All other leaderboards will be unaffected; this should be the last time we have to do a reset."
    It would be nice if you could apply the reverse for the Extreme table. I spent a good 30mins (at least) on that table and only got a measly score of 14million. This table has vastly deflated scores. Shame, because i quite like that table but have no motivation to play it to try and improve my superscore.

    For the record, I hate Rocky & Bullwinkle. I would like to get a real life table made of this and then smash it to pieces. Frustrating beyond belief. Good job on all the rest though. Looking forward to Mars and Paranormal. I've got them both for the PS3 but Zen Pinball just doesn't have the same nice feel as FX2. Any chance of converting the Tesla table too?

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    Oldson, I believe you need to fill this out.





    Anyway. I am glad the change was made. Thanks for the updates.
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    XBL Gamertag - XLiverslapperX

  13. #13

    Unhappy

    i must say to you guys, i apologize for not knowing Zen was going to reset the scores.

    First thing i did was download the update, then all of a sudden my score disappeared, without a explanation i looked up on the forums, couldn't find nothing about it, made a thread to learn whats going on. Then Solitude posted, i learn what happened, and i am as cheerful as ever. Besides, it means more play time on R&B. =D

    i mean no harm or anything.

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    I think that the people complaining have every right to be upset, so please don't mock them. We try to avoid doing something like this if possible, but in this particular case, it would have been worse to leave it alone, especially since the new table rules make it much harder for people who play in the future to compete with the inflated scores of the past. This way, there is a level playing field.

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    Junior Member oldson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverslapper View Post
    Oldson, I believe you need to fill this out.





    Anyway. I am glad the change was made. Thanks for the updates.
    LOL old son, splendid form.

    It's a shame that it wasn't fill in-able, yes I tried.......

    Sorry, I haven't introduced myself, hi guys n gals I'm oldson and I'm from sunny Bournemouth, Łngland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    I think that the people complaining have every right to be upset, so please don't mock them. We try to avoid doing something like this if possible, but in this particular case, it would have been worse to leave it alone, especially since the new table rules make it much harder for people who play in the future to compete with the inflated scores of the past. This way, there is a level playing field.
    While I agree the R&B scores should have been reset consider me absolutely amazed that the Superscore leaderboards are apparently not being updated to reflect the new table rules.

    There might be a level playing field on the R&B table after the reset but the Superscore leaderboard, easily the most popular among my friends and no doubt many other players, is now rendered totally useless by a decision that sees players who played before the patch given a huge advantage.

    It's an unbelievable oversight that a table is patched because of its adverse effect on Superscore but that that adverse effect is allowed to remain in place on the leaderboards after the patch.

    Why bother doing it at all in that case?

    More crucially, why should myself and my friends buy further content for this game when one of the main reasons we play it has been nerfed so thoroughly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

    It's an unbelievable oversight that a table is patched because of its adverse effect on Superscore but that that adverse effect is allowed to remain in place on the leaderboards after the patch.

    Why bother doing it at all in that case?
    What he said. Poor show. Can this be fixed?

  18. #18

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    Yeah, this seems odd. The whole point of the change seems to be to fix superscore, not the R&B scores themselves -- some old pinball machines used to just paint ",000" on the backglass and who cared since it was all relative.

    A better approach would have been to just change the superscore algorithm to something that weights the tables more equally. Normalize by the median score, base it on table ranks, etc. Lots of better ways. There's still a huge disparity between the top scores on the various tables, and there should be nothing wrong with that. My high score on "Medieval Madness" is around 50x that of "High Speed", which in turn is about 50x that of "Fireball". I think they're all fine tables. If we played a real-life tournament that featured all three, would we just add the raw scores to crown a champion?

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    Superscore leaderboards need to be fixed now lmao (and consequently the wizard leaderboards)
    Easy enough to score over 1billion on RnB and now the scores have reset, the superscore leaderboards are like.... over 500 mill in excess now lol.

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    I think you have to get over your superscore before this update was added. For instance: If your superscore was 2000 and your previous R&B score was 500M then you'll need to find 501M pounts from somewhere before the superscore leaderboards reflects your true score. Bit silly to do it this way if you ask me. Ive only got to get a 130M points improvement from all the tables before my leaderboard score can go up thanks to breaking half a billion on Spiderman yesterday. Woohoo!

    I still think this could have been implemented a lot better by Zen. I suppose it won't matter so much when additional tables come out. How long now. This month? Please.

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    I'm not going to get over my old superscore at this point because I personally lost about 4 billion points (4000 superscore) from R&B. The only table I could hope to improve that much on at this point is Spiderman, but currently my high on that table is only 2.5 billion points. Currently my local game is showing my superscore around 5000 (would have been around 9000 before the update).

    I'm not upset that R&B issues were addressed. I actually like the change as it puts more focus on doing the missions on this table (which I was doing before the update). Currently my high score on R&B is around 165million, and a significant portion came from completing missions on that table. (5 million for Boris & Natasha, 10 million from Mr. Peabody, 10 million?? from Aesop).

    The real issue that I have at this point is that current superscore leaderboards don't reflect how good the players are with THE CURRENT TABLE RULES. Trying to improve my high score on a table, or beating someone on my friends list, or moving up a spot on the superscore leaderboard is a big part of the replay factor for me. Some of the fun (I'm competitive) has unfortunately been taken from me.

    For a player such as myself, I realistically can't move up on the superscore leaderboard at this point. Last I checked I was around 33rd overall. Many of the people above me had only posted incredible scores on R&B and average (or sometimes mediocre) scores on the remaining tables. I on the other hand have tried to improve my scores on ALL of the tables. I would like to see how I compare to other players with the current rules and not a superscore leaderboard representative of old rules.

    At this point I would be satisfied knowing that Zen is aware of my concerns (along with other players) and would at least make a statement concerning the superscore and wizard leaderboards not being a true representation of the current game.
    Last edited by IndyRC_Racer; 03-20-2011 at 01:51 AM.

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    I don't think it's possible to subtract only the old R&B portion of the Superscore. However, the Superscores will, I believe, not go up until the difference in points between "old" Superscore and "new" Superscore has been made up. In other words, you need to replace those points you lost on R&B before you Superscore goes up again. Thus, the extra points in the Superscore will become less and less meaningful as more tables are released and it becomes easier to get a higher score.

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    I can't believe you released this patch changing Rocky & Bullwinkle scoring system without changing the superscore leaderboards. You'd be as well resetting all the superscores and starting from scratch. It would be annoying but the fairest way and certainly preferable to the current state of affairs. It would also give me an excuse to play tables I've not played for a while. If I've got a high score once I can do it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
    I don't think it's possible to subtract only the old R&B portion of the Superscore. However, the Superscores will, I believe, not go up until the difference in points between "old" Superscore and "new" Superscore has been made up. In other words, you need to replace those points you lost on R&B before you Superscore goes up again. Thus, the extra points in the Superscore will become less and less meaningful as more tables are released and it becomes easier to get a higher score.
    While I appreciate a response to my concern, this response is not what I was hoping for. There is only one fair thing to do in my opinion at this point. Reset all leaderboards that were affected by the "broken" Rocky & Bullwinkle scoring rules.

    I could infer from the above response that the current Superscore leaderboard is meaningless. Why have a leaderboard at all, if it isn't a true reflection of current scores. I realize this is for "virtual bragging rights", but why even waste the time programming and supporting this feature if it isn't a true representation of current scores.

    The real disappointment for me at this point is that it appears that Zen is actually rewarding players for exploiting the old scoring rules on Rocky & Bullwinkle by not resetting the Superscore leaderboard. Let me put it another way. Players who did not try or did not know how to exploit the R&B table before the patch are now out of luck. Is this a case of Zen not wanting to upset the good players by taking away their Superscore or just simply an oversight?

    My concerns with the current state of the Superscore leaderboard will not affect my enjoyment of this game. However, the lack of what I deem an appropriate response to date will certainly make me hesitant to purchase any additional products from Zen.

    If there is a more appropriate place for us to address concerns on this issue, please let us know. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
    Why have a leaderboard at all, if it isn't a true reflection of current scores.
    Well, quite.

    I think Zen need to:

    - first fix the save-game exploit such that no restored game will count towards leaderboards or tournaments, and then

    - reset all leaderboards and superscores

    I say we take off, nuke the scores from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  26. #26
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    Now I understand when people say "no comment" in interviews. The innocent little comment about the save game exploit has now blown up in Zen's face (and egged Blue's for that matter).

    I am not actually that concerned about super-score, high scores etc. as I am not on xbox live for various reasons but I do fully agree, especially if the save game feature exploit is going to be fixed, that all the scores should be reset. No matter which way you look at it, the best players will again quickly end up being at the top..... and I do believe that Blue will be right up there again!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloda View Post
    Now I understand when people say "no comment" in interviews. The innocent little comment about the save game exploit has now blown up in Zen's face (and egged Blue's for that matter).

    I am not actually that concerned about super-score, high scores etc. as I am not on xbox live for various reasons but I do fully agree, especially if the save game feature exploit is going to be fixed, that all the scores should be reset. No matter which way you look at it, the best players will again quickly end up being at the top..... and I do believe that Blue will be right up there again!!!
    No matter which way you look at it?

    I would be gutted if all scores were reset, even though I could potentially get to them again. Some of my scores now have been months in the making and I and most likely the majority of players should not have to be penalised because someone has used this save game glitch.

    I do see where people are coming from but before now I have never even heard or thought about a save game glitch. If it was common, it would have been talked about before and alot of people would have done it. I would also like it to be patched so saves can't be used but if this is at the expense of scores that would be a bad move.

  28. #28

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    I agree with IndyRC Racer & Womble - Patch the save exploit

    Then wipe the lot & start fresh, at least then all the boards will correspond & be legitimate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Well, quite.

    I think Zen need to:

    - first fix the save-game exploit such that no restored game will count towards leaderboards or tournaments, and then

    - reset all leaderboards and superscores

    I say we take off, nuke the scores from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
    Don't take this the wrong way but how good are your scores? The reason I ask is because I can't see someone with high scores that got them legitimately saying that. I know this has called high scores onto question but you just can't go and reset everything in a game where the whole object is to get high scores. Like I said above I would be gutted and probably wouldn't go back and do all the tables again.

    Again please don't take my comment the wrong way, I am not trying to call anyone "noob" or anything or have attitude but an entire score reset would be very extreme and disapointing for those who played alot of hours to get their high scores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzV1 View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way but how good are your scores? The reason I ask is because I can't see someone with high scores that got them legitimately saying that. I know this has called high scores onto question but you just can't go and reset everything in a game where the whole object is to get high scores. Like I said above I would be gutted and probably wouldn't go back and do all the tables again.

    Again please don't take my comment the wrong way, I am not trying to call anyone "noob" or anything or have attitude but an entire score reset would be very extreme and disapointing for those who played alot of hours to get their high scores.
    I wouldn't mind if the leaderboards were done in a seasonal fashion, i.e. global reset every 6 months or 1 year, with previous results (seasons) archived somewhere, maybe in these forums or on the PBFX2 website.

    Local scores should not be affected by something like this though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzV1 View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way but how good are your scores?
    I'm certainly nothing special by Patch of Blue's or Purple V0mit's standards, but I'm in the top 5 or so for a number of tables amongst my 30 or so Pinball Friends. And number 1 on Earth Defense. (Sniff.) So I do like my scores, even if they're not competitive globally.

    The way I see it: without a score reset, the current batch of scores mean nothing relative to other people..

    After all, the whole point of a leaderboard is to compare scores with other players. And you can't do that if some of those players have (effectively) cheated.

    Also, if people are good at a table, they'll get high scores again. Everyone is in the same boat here, so it's not like anyone would have an advantage. (Unlike the current situation.)
    Last edited by Womble; 03-22-2011 at 10:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    I'm certainly nothing special by Patch of Blue's or Purple V0mit's standards, but I'm in the top 5 or so for a number of tables amongst my 30 or so Pinball Friends. And number 1 on Earth Defense. (Sniff.) So I do like my scores, even if they're not competitive globally.

    The way I see it: without a score reset, the current batch of scores mean nothing relative to other people..

    After all, the whole point of a leaderboard is to compare scores with other players. And you can't do that if some of those players have (effectively) cheated.

    Also, if people are good at a table, they'll get high scores again. Everyone is in the same boat here, so it's not like anyone would have an advantage. (Unlike the current situation.)
    QFT...

    Like you my scores aren't in the super high league but I do alright on some of the tables. I think a global reset would be the best answer. The best will still be the best but it will give the leaderboards some value which they now no longer have.

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    I guess I do not understand how the Super Score leaderboard works because it would seem to me the best answer would be to wipe the SuperScore server-side, then the first time everyone logged on after that, it would update everyone's Superscore with their current (post R&B leaderboard reset) Superscore. I mean, if i play offline and post a new high score, the next time I go on live it does update the leaderboards (both table and Superscore) with my new score, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapierdwit View Post
    I guess I do not understand how the Super Score leaderboard works because it would seem to me the best answer would be to wipe the SuperScore server-side, then the first time everyone logged on after that, it would update everyone's Superscore with their current (post R&B leaderboard reset) Superscore. I mean, if i play offline and post a new high score, the next time I go on live it does update the leaderboards (both table and Superscore) with my new score, correct?
    It does make sense the way you put it. Hopefully it can be done that way.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapierdwit View Post
    I guess I do not understand how the Super Score leaderboard works because it would seem to me the best answer would be to wipe the SuperScore server-side, then the first time everyone logged on after that, it would update everyone's Superscore with their current (post R&B leaderboard reset) Superscore. I mean, if i play offline and post a new high score, the next time I go on live it does update the leaderboards (both table and Superscore) with my new score, correct?
    It is correct i know cos a friend of mine who doesn't have live at home comes to my place to update his scores regularly on the leaderboards ... all you have to do is play a table , whatever your score is, and it gets updated instantly after your last ball...

    So, cleaning the superscore leaderboard seems to be the way ... and frankly i wonder why it wasn't done at the same time the RB table was updated ...

    As for the save supposed exploit, a 'no save' leaderboard would be the solution, you wanna make 100 billions ??? you have to stay 10 hours playing straight, that's the way you'd have to do it on an arcade machine ! This LB would instantly become the real deal IMO and it would not deprive us of the save feature for those who enjoy it.... now would the superscore be based on these 'no save' scores or the way it is now ? that's not up to me to decide but i'd prefer a no save superscore ... so anyone can get bad luck and sink his 2nd ball in under a minute of playing like i usually do and it would really be a SUPERscore, not a Fantasyrulescore like today
    Last edited by X DrLobo; 03-23-2011 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post

    I say we take off, nuke the scores from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
    Loving the Aliens reference, mate. If the superscore leaderboard can't be fixed then you have to wonder why Zen released this patch in the first place. Also: 10 second ball saver on R&B - That's just pure evil on an already frustrating table.

    Zen: Game over man, game over. Reset the superscores please.

  37. #37

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    I hope they'll consider that those of us that already own Mars and Paranormal on the PS3 are less likely to buy them again here if we know we have no chance to improve our Superscores.

  38. #38
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    Seriously ZEN, thanks for doing your best to keep it fair.
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