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Thread: FarSight launches new Pinball title

  1. #201
    Writer of Guides ShoryukenToTheChin's Avatar
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    Yeh who are we trying to kid, all of us will likely be playing Pinball Arcade and PFX2 (or some other Zen Pinball Game)...... its WIN WIN!


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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffy777 View Post
    BTW, they just released the Mac version today,
    Sadly, it appears they shouldn't have.

    Judging from the feedback, it seems the product is riddled with problems and misfeatures. (You can't even change key bindings.)

    I think this is a real problem for non-native developers. You can't just take an iOS project and make it a Mac one. The Mac product necessarily needs more finessing. It has to deal with wildly fluctuating CPU/disk loads, incompetent video cards, a large range of display configurations, proper Cocoa-based menus and dialogs, windowed support, etc.

    When companies just do a rushed port, it hurts them. They need to take the time to do it properly, contracting with native developers where necessary.

  3. #203
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    It came out; I had a quick go on it. The ball physics actually seem much better. Kind of a cross between Zen's and the original William's collection which makes for quite a nice flow.

    Tables have been darkened a bit to make the lights more obvious (they were quite bright on William's) but they feel pretty good.

    The UI however; it just poor. If you think Zen's needs some work this will make you rip your eyes out. They copied the UI from the portable versions; but it feels clunky with huge buttons and you can only view 1 table at a time (rather than a list); so when the table list gets large, it will take a while to cycle through from table to table.

    Overall; the gameplay is great, the UI (as in the menus etc) are one of the worst I have seen in a console game in a long while.

  4. #204
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    Damn. I was really hoping they'd improve their UI this time. PHOF's is terrible.

    (And the lack of quality control on the iOS, Android and Mac builds does not bode well.)

    I've bought it though, just waiting for my wife to get off the TV.

  5. #205
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    Has now shown on the AU arcade, but there is no option for trial/purchase

  6. #206
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    Scotty, I was able to buy it through:

    http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Pr...5-d8025841121d

  7. #207
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    Well first the Visuals are 10+ easy compared to PHoF. However I have to give the physics a 6. The ball is too fast and bouncy around the flippers. The speed you had in PHoF:WC was more spot on in real pinball. Also the Flipper solenoids are 50 volt coils, the flippers sound like muffled clicks. Listen to Pinball FX 2 tables like Sorcerer's Lair. They've got the solenoid sound down to a science. It also seems they widened the gap on the left outlane on TOTAN. It eats balls like Pinbot normally does. All in All however I'm quite pleased with the total package and will continue buying the tables.

    You guys are right about the interface through, the TV looks like a giant touch screen.

    P.S. where's the audio settings for music vs. sound effects etc...?

  8. #208
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    You have to hand it to Zen: they know how to polish their products.

    Just looking at TPA, you can see just how important that polish is, particularly when it's missing.

    Though this is certainly a visual upgrade from PHOF, it's still well below PFX2's standard, IMO. The frame rate is solid enough, but they seem to have taken a few shortcuts. No glass, some very ordinary shader work (looks like fixed function graphics in a lot of places), no self-shadowing, low polygon geometry, some poor textures, etc.

    As for the physics, yeah, they're better, but still too bouncy for my liking. Also, try trapping the ball. Even thought the ball is supposed to be stationary, it actually bobbles around. (That's a physics solution error.)

    The best thing TPA has going for it is the licenses. I can only imagine what Zen would have done with these invaluable IPs.

    Oh well, we have what we have. Let's just hope that FarSight improve their product. At only 800 scam dollars, it's still a no-brainer.

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    What are the leaderboards like Womble? Are they any better than before?

    Is there anything like the Zen system where you know you are getting close to a friends score?

  10. #210

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    For what it's worth, i can say i'm pleased with the product, i kinda like everything pinball related and even the box version of PHOFTWC pleased me on multiple aspects !

    Now this is different, i think the visuals are great, the physics suits me fine...

    Same way i do with zen, i'll get any table they will produce... i'm very glad to have this game to complete the video pinball experience...

  11. #211

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    ugh... I shouldn't have hyped myself up for this game. First off, the visuals are AMAZING. A++ in my books, but now when it comes to the physics. *cough cough* There are a few problems with them. If feels like there is a little lag time from when i hit the ball with my flipper, like playing an online game. The ball is still too floaty, they need to add more weight to it.(especially on TotAN, the ball just sways on the ramp when it doesn't have enough momentum to go all the way to the bottom.) So i am kind of stuck in between great visuals and bad physics.

  12. #212
    Writer of Guides ShoryukenToTheChin's Avatar
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    Well im gonna get this l8er today, sad to hear the cons of this product..... well as long as enjoyment can be attained thats the main thing.


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  13. #213

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    Well, frankly, the cons of the release are due to prolonged exposure to zen studios crazy tables, the pinball arcade is not bad at all ... heck i dare even say it's good but you obviously can't compare real pinball mechanics translated to video pinball to the wild ride that are zen's productions !

  14. #214
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    Hey Guys.
    We are all Pinball fans right?
    There is no denying FarSight's Pinball Arcade is F'en Awesome

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    As I'd never played another pinball game (real or virtual) before Pinball FX2, I was really looking forward to try this out, due to the enthusiam of many pinheads here regarding the great original tables.

    My experience so far is mixed. I really, really like the tables. Black Hole is a bit of a mystery to me and I don't really know what to do, but the other 3 are really great fun. So for the low price, getting it was definately worth it.

    Physics wise, I agree with Womble. It feels a bit bouncy and the ball seems to do things sometimes that don't seem really convincing, like gaining speed while travelling up ramps, after you pass a certain point. I had the feeling that they have invisible borders on the ramps and if you pass that, the game counts the ramp as "made" and speeds up the ball so you make it to the end.

    Up untill now, I had one major glitch, where Ripley's didn't recognize that my second to last ball of a multiball went out, so when I lost my final ball, the game got stuck and I had to abandon it. Call an attendant didn't work.

    Regarding graphics, I'm a bit undecided. For it's purpose, transporting the original IP as real as possible, they're doing okay, but compared to what Zen does, it lacks polish and style. Same goes for sound.

    I saw a lot of complaints regarding the UI on Facebook and although it feels a bit clunky, I didn't find it that bad. It's easy to navigate and the 1:1 touch pad optics are not great, but work out just fine for me. The things they need to address would be a table list, when more tables come out and better tracking of how you're doing compared to your friends.
    What I really like is the idea of the standard goals and the way the table is explained. For me, Farsight's version is easier to understand than Zen's.

    All in all, it's a very good pinball game, but a mediocre video game.

  16. #216
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    Goodness me they actually got round to officially releasing it in the UK. The game aint half bad if you dont compare the physics of the game to that of Pinball FX 2 and i love the choice of the tables made for the core content. Not at all falling in love with the camera angles on offer here though - only three and neither of them the one i used with PFX2 and as such i had to adjust somewhat for it.

    Looking forward to seeing what will be offered as DLC and for how much?

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    And the acievements look like they are going to be like PBFX in that each table will have 50 points. But the style is the same as in PBHOF Williams, ie. Basic challenges then wizard challenges. I'm at work, but how hard are the challenges for those of you playing now?

    Sorry to hear that about the interface. Ever since Game Room (don't laugh) came out I've dreamed of having a virtual arcade to walk around, but neither Game Room nor William's (PBHOF) delivered on what I'm dreaming of. Looks like I still need to dream...

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post

    As for the physics, yeah, they're better, but still too bouncy for my liking. Also, try trapping the ball. Even thought the ball is supposed to be stationary, it actually bobbles around. (That's a physics solution error.)
    I totally agree. The ball feels light and bouncy, which took some getting used to. I like Black Hole the best, it's really different and has some awesome robot-sounding voice-overs

  19. #219
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    Will be picking this one up later when I get back from work, but not feeling quite so hyped for it as I once was following some of teh comments here about dodgy physics and front-end.

    Still, it'll be good to see some of the old classics again. Does anyone know if they have a similar challenge system that PBFX has? Nothing like seeing that message telling you you are approaching a friends score and later getting the chance to send them the obligatory "I just beat your score..." message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Nation View Post
    But the style is the same as in PBHOF Williams, ie. Basic challenges then wizard challenges. I'm at work, but how hard are the challenges for those of you playing now?
    Standard goals, the ones required for the second achievement on each table, are easy to get, I think. I still haven't read the rule sheets and just play away and I already have 4/5 on ToM and Totan.

    It's mostly things like starting multiballs, earning extra balls, doing basic things on the table. I think, if you're really getting into one table, they shouldn't be too hard to get.

    @Alipan:

    They offer a leaderboard score for friends, but they don't have a system like Zen, which tells you that you're closing in on a friend's score while playing a table.

  21. #221
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    I totally agree. The ball feels light and bouncy, which took some getting used to.
    This actually sounds pretty normal to me. In a real pinball machine, the ball is usually light and bouncy thanks that all of the elastics on the table. It looks like Farsight took this into account, when making this game's physics engine.

    In your games, the ball is much more heavier and the elastics are less realistic IMO.

    It's not a big issue to me, it's just something you need to adapt to.

  22. #222
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    Talking Any new TPA friends?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
    They offer a leaderboard score for friends, but they don't have a system like Zen, which tells you that you're closing in on a friend's score while playing a table.
    If there's any Zen fans who are also playing TPA please feel free to add me to your friend's list for more score competition (i'm not very elite, have 2540 superscore). Gamertag is the same.

  23. #223
    Senior Member E113's Avatar
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    I downloaded the demo for TPA. After playing two games on each table, I can honestly say I probably won't be purchasing this title. I'm not saying I won't play it, I'll probably wait until my roommate buys it and then give it a proper go. But judging by the demo, I'm not really a fan. I guess I'm just so used to Zen's physics by now that TPA just feels so airy and bouncy. I know real tables are like this sometimes. But it seems like the flippers are trampolines and I don't even have to hit the triggers to send the ball across the table, it just bounces that far on its own.

    I've already had Black Hole glitch out on me, in the demo. I went to start the table and the camera got stuck at the top/back of the table. All I could see was the back of the table (orbit/top of ramps/etc.). There was no way I could have played a full game in that view. And there is no view changer. Its A: lock table view at far or B: allow it to zoom on the ball when it goes to the top/back of the table. I'm already having major doubts about this title. We'll see if my opinion changes after my roommate buys it.
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  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
    They offer a leaderboard score for friends, but they don't have a system like Zen, which tells you that you're closing in on a friend's score while playing a table.
    Yeah, that was one of the first things I turned off when I started playing Zen pinball -- I found those messages popping up during a game were a sure way to make me lose the ball!

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by bclewis View Post
    Yeah, that was one of the first things I turned off when I started playing Zen pinball -- I found those messages popping up during a game were a sure way to make me lose the ball!
    And you were correct sir. I turned that thing off a LONG time ago because I had lost a ball or two due to the distraction.
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  26. #226

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    Is it me or does the ball seem to float/fly on Ripley's? When I try to trap the ball seems like it's got grease all over it and won't stay still. Also Tales of the Arabian Nights seems crazier with the physics too as even in PHOF I don't recall the outlanes being as nasty as they are now.

    Maybe it's just because I got up at 530 in the morning to play but I had serious trouble keeping the ball in play on Tales on this new version. I was also really struggling to hit the orbits on this table and don't remember having issues in PHOF. Maybe I'm just nuts. Glad they fixed Harem Multiball though.

    I will say I'm absolutely LOVING Theater of Magic though and I like the physics on that table the best so far.

    Quick EDIT too. Has anyone had their flippers glitching in the up position? It happened to me 5 total times on all tables (except for Black Hole, yet to play it). It actually cost me two balls too. There was nothing wrong with my controller triggers either, but the flipper would just lock itself into the up position. It was super odd. Again, I'm crazy or a glitch?
    Last edited by gasfoodmurder; 04-04-2012 at 06:23 PM.

  27. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by gasfoodmurder View Post

    Quick EDIT too. Has anyone had their flippers glitching in the up position? It happened to me 5 total times on all tables (except for Black Hole, yet to play it). It actually cost me two balls too. There was nothing wrong with my controller triggers either, but the flipper would just lock itself into the up position. It was super odd. Again, I'm crazy or a glitch?
    I had this happen too, I thought it was just me but I guess not.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasfoodmurder View Post
    ... has anyone had their flippers glitching in the up position? It happened to me 5 total times on all tables (except for Black Hole, yet to play it). It actually cost me two balls too. There was nothing wrong with my controller triggers either, but the flipper would just lock itself into the up position. It was super odd. Again, I'm crazy or a glitch?
    Lol, now THAT'S realism . The only place in my town that has several tables has a "Funhouse" which will constantly do this. er... a little off topic, sry

  29. #229

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    Is there a "superscore" sort of score across all tables?

  30. #230
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasfoodmurder View Post
    Has anyone had their flippers glitching in the up position? It happened to me 5 total times on all tables (except for Black Hole, yet to play it). It actually cost me two balls too. There was nothing wrong with my controller triggers either, but the flipper would just lock itself into the up position. It was super odd. Again, I'm crazy or a glitch?
    Great! So the game also emulates stuck flipper solenoids.

  31. #231

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    Yes but what made it even more odd was that when it happened on Ripley's, it happened to BOTH right fippers. It either has to be the physical trigger on my controller sticking, (which I'm 99% sure isn't the problem) or there is some issue with the code locking the flipper in that position.

    My overall recommendation would be definitely try the demo, especially if you have played PHOF. I bought it without the demo because I'm ultra impulsive with anything pinball related. It's definitely harder and more frustrating than some Zen tables but it's still pinball and it's still fun

  32. #232
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    I was a little skeptical about how much I would like this because I'm more of a video gamer than pinballer. Pinball FX 2 is actually the entire reason I like pinball. I was pleasantly surprised, though. In particular, I like the Theatre of Magic table.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasfoodmurder View Post
    Yes but what made it even more odd was that when it happened on Ripley's, it happened to BOTH right fippers. It either has to be the physical trigger on my controller sticking, (which I'm 99% sure isn't the problem) or there is some issue with the code locking the flipper in that position.

    My overall recommendation would be definitely try the demo, especially if you have played PHOF. I bought it without the demo because I'm ultra impulsive with anything pinball related. It's definitely harder and more frustrating than some Zen tables but it's still pinball and it's still fun
    I recall having the same issue with stuck flippers in PHOF, particularly on Medieval Madness (of course, I did play that table more than all the others combined). It usually corrected itself after hitting the trigger a second time, but it was definitely annoying when it happened, and lead to at least one lost ball.

    I'll definitely be buying Pinball Arcade, but from what I've read so far it doesn't seem like a huge improvement over PHOF.

  34. #234
    Senior Member E113's Avatar
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    After buying this game with my roommate's MSPs (yes I had permission) and playing it for a few hours, I can honestly say I'm not really a fan at all. I do remember Outlanes in real pinball being pretty unforgiving, but not half as bad as Farsight makes them. I launch a ball, it goes around, bounces off a few things, hits a slingshot and I never ever get to touch it before it goes out the Outlane. This is absolutely ridiculous as it isn't even a "once in a while" occurance. It happened to me multiple times over multiple games. To the point where it seems like that's how the game is designed, to feed the ball directly to the Outlane at any chance. Yes I know real life pinball does that. But not like 50+% of the time like Farsight's tables do.

    This only one fault I found. For one, the ball physics are terrible. the ball doesn't even look like its rolling half the time it looks like it just floats across the table. And this "bit-mapping" thing I heard so much about that was supposed to reflect what the ball "rolls by" doesn't do what they said it would either. The ball doesn't even roll, let alone reflect properly. When you "trap" a ball it kind of sits there hovering/spinning. Not a still ball like it should be. Overall I just find these "realistic" renditions quite silly and unplayable for LONG periods of time.
    Last edited by E113; 04-04-2012 at 10:50 PM.
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  35. #235
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    I can't wait till Medieval Madness is out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E113 View Post
    After buying this game with my roommate's MSPs (yes I had permission) and playing it for a few hours, I can honestly say I'm not really a fan at all. I do remember Outlanes in real pinball being pretty unforgiving, but not half as bad as Farsight makes them. I launch a ball, it goes around, bounces off a few things, hits a slingshot and I never ever get to touch it before it goes out the Outlane. This is absolutely ridiculous as it isn't even a "once in a while" occurance. It happened to me multiple times over multiple games. To the point where it seems like that's how the game is designed, to feed the ball directly to the Outlane at any chance. Yes I know real life pinball does that. But not like 50+% of the time like Farsight's tables do.

    This only one fault I found. For one, the ball physics are terrible. the ball doesn't even look like its rolling half the time it looks like it just floats across the table. And this "bit-mapping" thing I heard so much about that was supposed to reflect what the table "rolls by" doesn't do what they said it would either. The ball doesn't even roll, let alone reflect properly. When you "trap" a ball it kind of sits there hovering/spinning. NBot a still ball like it should be. Overall I just find these "realistic" renditions quite silly and unplayable for LONG periods of time.
    When you described how quickly you can lose the balls to the outlanes, I thought of why I didn't play much pinball after the eighties. I seem to recall many times I losing the balls to the outlanes as if the table was designed to take away all the balls as fast as possible to make money.


    Although I have never played TBA, from what I've seen the ball does look floaty and it seems on some of the tables the ball bounces off bumpers where as if it was so sensitive. There doesn't see to be any weight on the ball much like some of Zen's earlier tables.

    Still the nostalgia of playing some of the classic pinball tables looks so good. I'm on the PSN so I won't be able to try this at all until next week

    here is a vid of the trial version that i saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFsnbOBFCjs
    Last edited by tenorhero; 04-04-2012 at 10:57 PM.

  37. #237

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    I gotta say I'm very disappointed. I expected physics better than Hall of Fame Collection, and these actually worse, it feels like a step backwards for Farsight. The ball "jumps" across spaces a lot, like when it's under a flipper and gets trapped, next thing you know it's a few inches over.

    I thought I'd like Black Hole the best, but it wound up to be lame. A ball drain in the bonus area actually counts against you (lose a ball), and the speed of the ball is very erratic (ie very quick bullets through outlanes).

    The main menu just forces you to scroll left and right to get to tables, how are we going to be able to see purchased DLC?

    About the only thing they got right are the instructions for the tables.

    Anyone read the EULA and legal garbage? There's actually a spot for it in the menu......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postman View Post
    I thought I'd like Black Hole the best, but it wound up to be lame. A ball drain in the bonus area actually counts against you (lose a ball), and the speed of the ball is very erratic (ie very quick bullets through outlanes).
    That ball drain on the mini playfield isn't automatic. You have to open the gate by hitting a certain target or something. I don't know the specifics but you can come out of there just fine without losing your ball.

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    Default ToM screwed me over

    today i played the pinball arcade.. i must say for 800 points getting a whole game including 4 tables is cheap.. in that way it is an winner!! dont you guys think? anyway what im not so pleased of is the fact i had an real good game.. i actually beat the little jesus out of ToM.. however at the end of the game something bad happens to me click the link for what i ment by that. (sorry for a little swearing at the end people, it was brutal when you see it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_cb4wTiZU

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    Roy, yeah it's weird. I don't really understand FarSight's comment on the matter:

    It's a bug in the ROM. The emulation is rolling the score over - not our code. We will find a way to fix this.
    So is it a bug in the original ROM? Or a bug in the emulator?

    I'm pretty sure that the bug would have been found by now if it were in the original code.

    FWIW, Steve Ellenoff is listed as the Emulation Engineer on the game. He also had that job in PHOF. He's one of the guys behind PinMAME, which is the technology Visual Pinball uses.
    Last edited by Womble; 04-05-2012 at 01:45 AM.

  41. #241
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    My thoughts:

    Pros:

    Looks at least par with the Williams Xbox 360 and PS3 releases; a little outdated (detail-wise), but decent enough

    Physics are as good, if not better, than the Xbox 360 and PS3 Williams Collection

    Leaderboards much better than the initial disc releases

    While a couple tables have appeared on previous collections (Black Hole and Tales of the Arabian Nights), both are improved under this DLC release

    With exception to the plunger camera, I like the other cameras okay

    Cons:

    The plunger camera needs work; I'm fine with the other camera settings, but the plunger is a little too zoomed-in and I wish there were more options for this segment

    The lighting and graphical overhauls that were shown in their Facebook page isn't present; they should have waited to unveil those

    The user interface will become a chore once there are more than 10 tables in this game

    I like the plunger on the other tables; however, Tales of the Arabian Nights feels a little on the sensitive side

    Speaking of Tales of the Arabian Nights, I think the skill shot view before the plunger camera should be eliminated; the Dot-Matrix-Display and instructions explain it well enough

    No head-to-head online; FarSight Studios confirmed a few months ago they will eventually include it


    So yeah, disappointed about the reaction, but still a great game (if a bit rushed). I do think most of my issues will get patched, though (as with most any video game these days).

    It would be great for FarSight Studios (and video pinball) to hire more staff members (i.e. indie game developers); a 6-man studio is too small for a big project like this (they intend to bring 50+ tables). I don't want this game to become another Game Room; an ambitious idea that should have been a home-run but collapsed due to rushed design, overpriced games, a very inconstant library, and released under a small development company. I think Pinball Arcade falls into the most former and latter. Their releases are a little rushed, but aren't overpriced nor have bad table selection. They just need better development planning; hiring more staff would get the job done quicker, thus Pinball Arcade would be more polished.

  42. #242

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    Ok, like I pretty much knew I was going to, I bought this day-one and didn't regret it one bit.

    Graphically it's a huge improvement over PHoF: Ball reflection, artwork scan that are actually high res, interactive/moving table objects that actually animates normally...it's a complete overhaul. I have to say it's still not as good as Pinball FX 2 imo but it's close.


    The physics too have improve compared to PHoF, how much close they are compared to real life pinball? Unfortunately I couldn't say because it's been sadly many years since I've played real pinball (all the arcades that used to have them are long gone). The physics are quite different then PFX2. PFX2 tend to have really "heavy" physics with really fast decelerations. Check out some of the games at papa.org for example http://papa.org/blog/2012/03/papa-14...s-group-2-f14/ you'll see the physics in Pinball Arcade are closer to real pinball than PFX2.


    And perhaps one of the most important aspect of all...the game length...my God. It's like night and day, I placed in top 50 in one of my first attempt on Theatre of Magic; game lasted ten minutes...a far cry from the 12+ hours plus games on many of Zen's tables. It's mostly due to two important factor: much bigger flipper gap and much stronger slingshots. Again, I recommend checking some of the videos at papa.org: While they say some adjustments have been made to make the tables harder these are some of the best pinball players around and their games last a few minutes.

    Again, I understand Zen is trying to make something different than pure simulation and I'm fine with that and I understand not everyone is a pro either but even for very casual player I'm not sure it makes good business sense to make the tables easier...Think about it: casual players last about the same amount of time either way whether the table is made easier or harder, and more advanced player just gets bored because the game last forever and it takes many many hours if you want to place on the leaderboard so...

    I still love Zen and PFX2, but I wish Zen is going to implement some sort of way to significantly reduce game time in the future (for PFX3 maybe).


    edit: Damn I hope they patch that bug DutchTommy. At least it didn't take a huge amount of time and if you were able to score this much once pretty sure you could do it again. But yeah, let's hope they patch this. Though the MS "patch tax" (I think it's something like 40,000 bucks?) never fills me with confidence when it comes to 3rd parties publishers patching their games because MS kind of discourage devs with their business model...
    Last edited by Pinmon; 04-05-2012 at 04:05 AM.

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    12+ hour games? How many players have actually ever done that? My longest game is a little under 6 hours (which is actually significantly more than my typical long games of 1-2 hours) and I've managed to make the top 100 on several FX2 tables.

    I don't think a 10 minute game is going to be competitive for very long on The Pinball Arcade either. The game just came out and leader boards don't reflect how difficult it's actually going to be to maintain a top spot at the moment. But I do agree with your sentiment. Zen does need to scale back on how long their games last.

  44. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by PSKay View Post
    12+ hour games? How many players have actually ever done that? My longest game is a little under 6 hours (which is actually significantly more than my typical long games of 1-2 hours) and I've managed to make the top 100 on several FX2 tables.
    It's not too hard to achieve 6-12+ hours games on Paranormal, Ghost Rider, X-Men, Miss 'Splosion, Spider Man and a few others too. Not saying everyone will have games that long but it's not that hard. I gave up on these tables because I simply lost interest in them, for me it's just not fun when games last that long.

    By contrast even top players (i.e: much better pinball players than me) cannot last this long in real pinball.

    I don't think a 10 minute game is going to be competitive for very long on The Pinball Arcade either. The game just came out and leader boards don't reflect how difficult it's actually going to be to maintain a top spot at the moment. But I do agree with your sentiment. Zen does need to scale back on how long their games last.
    Well, check out:
    http://pinball.org/videos/gameplay-v...atre-of-magic/

    Real life pro player on Theatre of Magic. The game lasted less than 10 minutes.

    These videos are also pretty good to show how the ball behaves in real life.




    Also I forgot to add: One negative point that has been mentioned and that I agree with is the ball's reflection. While light reflection is present it's not nearly as good as Zen's unfortunately. Whenever the ball is farther away it does seem like it's sliding more than actually rolling, at least visually (not in terms of ball physics.)

    edit: Or maybe I'm so used to PFX2 and Zen accentuate the reflection effect for better visuals (which I'm cool with).
    Last edited by Pinmon; 04-05-2012 at 04:09 AM.

  45. #245

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    Looks like theater of Magic is glitched when reached 10 billion points, it will reset your score to zero. DutchTommy was playing and this happened.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_cb4wTiZU


    If this is the case for every game, i am done with the table until it is fixed, this is unacceptable in ANY pinball game.

  46. #246

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    Another review point I neglected to talk about: the audio.

    Here, Zen has a natural advantage: The original Pinball machines sound samples (I'm referring to the ROM sound samples not the mechanical sounds fx) was pretty poor to begin with, so there's not much they can do.

    Zen could have high-quality samples (spoken lines and such. Again, I'm not talking about mechanical sound effects) from the start.

    So that's one area where non real life tables are better.

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchTommy View Post
    today i played the pinball arcade.. i must say for 800 points getting a whole game including 4 tables is cheap.. in that way it is an winner!! dont you guys think? anyway what im not so pleased of is the fact i had an real good game.. i actually beat the little jesus out of ToM.. however at the end of the game something bad happens to me click the link for what i ment by that. (sorry for a little swearing at the end people, it was brutal when you see it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_cb4wTiZU

    I watched your video... that is rough! I would have been pretty upset too.

  48. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    This actually sounds pretty normal to me. In a real pinball machine, the ball is usually light and bouncy thanks that all of the elastics on the table. It looks like Farsight took this into account, when making this game's physics engine.

    In your games, the ball is much more heavier and the elastics are less realistic IMO.

    It's not a big issue to me, it's just something you need to adapt to.
    Yeah, Farsight is on the right track with the physics. Compared to Zen, the ball will feel lighter and bouncier, but that's on purpose because that's the way real pinball machines feel compared to Zen too.

  49. #249
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    TPA needs so much added to it. And Black Hole is so horrible, my friends and I were cracking jokes about it all day long. I'm number 10 in the world on TOM!!!!
    http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

  50. #250
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    I will be buying next week, (when my credit card has money on it :P) it is worth the 800 space bucks JUST for Theatre of Magic. Graphics are much improved over Williams Pinball (Arabian Nights looks great), and the physics have been improved over the previous product (although trapping the ball is very tricky).

    Looking forward to Taxi, Funhouse & Whirlwind being remade. Hopefully Data East will come on board, and Rocky & Bullwinkle will be made *WRONG HAT*.

    Have they announced how often new tables will be available?

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinmon View Post
    Well, check out:
    http://pinball.org/videos/gameplay-v...atre-of-magic/

    Real life pro player on Theatre of Magic. The game lasted less than 10 minutes.

    These videos are also pretty good to show how the ball behaves in real life.
    Obviously, that guy is very good but unless the scoring is different on Pinball Arcade or I missed something, he only scored around a billion in that game. I put up almost 2 billion in my first game of Theatre of Magic on PA which ranks me not even in the top 100. So a 10 minute game certainly doesn't seem good enough to net you anywhere near a top spot on the leader boards. It's clearly not going to be 12+ hours but it's not like all or even most of FX2 tables require that much time either.

  52. #252
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    Thumbs up

    Scotty, yes it's worth the price for TOM, along with Ripley's a no brain buy for the true pinball fan.
    http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
    Scotty, yes it's worth the price for TOM, along with Ripley's a no brain buy for the true pinball fan.
    I agree. ToM is so much fun. I'm really having a blast with it. I just finished a game, where I was able to complete the Grand Finale and almost scored 5 billion points.
    Seeing what the table has to offer is really amazing. The only downside is the mean glitch, which DutchTommy encountered. I don't think I would be capable to score 10B, so it won't affect me terribly, but for the really good players this is a let-down I guess.

  54. #254
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    Nice job Verj, I noticed you moved up on the leaderboards. And if nothing else, this is a nice historical document for pinball. Or at least will end up being that way.
    http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ The City Is My Church

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasvegaspinballhalloffame View Post
    TPA needs so much added to it. And Black Hole is so horrible, my friends and I were cracking jokes about it all day long. I'm number 10 in the world on TOM!!!!
    Vegas, I have to disagree, wiht you and about a zillion others... I love Black Hole. Once you know what you're doing, I personally really dig the dark atmosphere, and this is the type of pinball I remember, early 80's pinball ftw, imo. I'd like to hear some of those jokes though....
    My other fave is Arabian Nights, I'd played the hell out of this one in real life, and can honestly say that it is NOT an identicle replica, but still a real blast. In real life I can barely hit 8M, but on TPA I can getg in the tens of millions easily. One major difference from real life, I don't recall the genie being so easy to hit, certainly not having the ball glance of the left captive ball and then hit the genie.

    Also, to those of you not liking TPA because of outlanes/SDTMs, the "nudge" on this game is a beast !! With PBFX you can get the flipper over a little more and bump pass easier, but in TPA you actually change the balls course, so you can get it out of those outlane bound shots or even vear the ball to hit the flipper square instead of on the tip.

    ONE COMPLAINT: The only gripe I have is like PBHOF you can't look over the table. Zen players, that handy ability we have to hold X and see the table is not pressent. Odd omision considering this is supposed to be something of a nostalgia/museum piece; I'd like a full 360 view to see the sides of the box as well as actually being able to look at the playing field in detail.

  56. #256
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    Default It's Official: PlayStation 3 Version is Back On!

    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/...on-april-10th/

    It seems like my guess was correct; the bug is squashed!

    Hopefully this means the Xbox 360 version will get patched around this date.

  57. #257
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    I downloaded and played a few games of TPA last night, with mostly favourable impressions.

    So far, I've enjoyed Arabian Nights and Black Hole the most. I love the dark atmosphere on Black Hole. The draining from inner playfield when gate is still closed caught me off guard at first (and I'm still not sure what exactly you need to hit to open the gate), but I'm starting to warm to it. Basically, until you open the gate, an inner playfield drain is a "real drain".

    I think there is some truth to some of the complaints about the physics, but overall I have the impression that TPA is closer to the real thing than Zen in this regard (although Zen's often has more realistic visual appearance when it comes to reflections and appearance of rolling etc.)

    There's no question to me that TPA is well worth the price for pinball fans, but I hope for some tweaks in the future (agree especially with complaints about the UI and plunger camera angle). I'm definitely looking forward to more tables (Taxi! Taxi!).

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bclewis View Post
    The draining from inner playfield when gate is still closed caught me off guard at first (and I'm still not sure what exactly you need to hit to open the gate), but I'm starting to warm to it. Basically, until you open the gate, an inner playfield drain is a "real drain".
    If I understood the instructions correctly, there are 2 (3?) ways to open the gate.
    On the lower right side of the normal field, there are 4 lit yellow targets. If you hit all four a green arrow appear and signals that a ball through the right inlane opens that gate.

    On the lower playfield you have drop down targets on the left and on the right. Dropping these should open the gate as well, but I'm not sure, if you need all on both sides or just all on one side.

  59. #259
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    Finally got to try and buy today and feel it's very, very... ok. There are somethings I like a lot, the extras in the form of the history of the tables. I don't even mind the front end, its good to see the whole table displayed (tho once a few start to arrive I can imagine this being a real PITA to navigate.

    I do find the ball incredibly light (maybe its because Zen's pinball is too heavy, but I don't remember feeling it felt to heavy when I first started with it) as the ball feels light it seems to fly around the table. I too have launched a ball see it fly from a bumper straight out down an out lane without going near any flippers a couple of times on Ripley and the wobbly trapped ball makes me think that collision detection is a bit off.

    Graphically the game looks fine, but I've experienced a slight pause in the game when changing view and where is the environmentally reflective ball we were promised?
    I also think that Farsight have missed a couple of tricks in table views. We have these great looking recreations and we can't see them. I have had a real difficulty finding a view that works and the lack of a free view is big downer. And losing sight of the table when pulling the plunger makes skillshots v difficult on Arabian Nights.

    Finally I wish Farsight had done something with the table environment. One thing I love about PBFX is that the environment the table is in reflects the table. TPA felt like I was playing in a dingy cellar. On my own.

    To conclude I'm glad I bought the tables, but I'm also glad I read a few comments here first in preparation, had I not done so I would have been sorely disappointed as it was it just confirmed the criticisms I've been reading here.

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
    If I understood the instructions correctly, there are 2 (3?) ways to open the gate.
    On the lower right side of the normal field, there are 4 lit yellow targets. If you hit all four a green arrow appear and signals that a ball through the right inlane opens that gate.

    On the lower playfield you have drop down targets on the left and on the right. Dropping these should open the gate as well, but I'm not sure, if you need all on both sides or just all on one side.
    You don't need to drop both sets of targets. When on lower playfield I am always trying for the middle drop targets or the right orbital. As soon as it says Gate Open, I just let it drain. If it says "Open" and you hit ANY of the targets it will close again.

    In case anyone is having trouble with any of the challenges (like having your ball survive reentry) the challenges page BEFORE YOU START THE TABLE will have an option to hit "A" for each challenge and it explains pretty conscisely how to do each.

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corpsesmith View Post
    .....also think that Farsight have missed a couple of tricks in table views. We have these great looking recreations and we can't see them. I have had a real difficulty finding a view that works and the lack of a free view is big downer. And losing sight of the table when pulling the plunger makes skillshots v difficult on Arabian Nights.
    This is the biggest drawback in my opinion. I just can't understand why Farsight didn't give us some way of viewing the entire playfield. If it would be too tricky to allow us to freeze the action and peer around on the fly all Zen style, fine. But to not give us ANY option to look the tables over is a let-down.

    Arabian Nights skillshot isn't hard once you get it down. There is no way to pull the plunger soft enough to get it to roll up the ramp and come back, so if you just barely pull, pause, let go, it will almost always hit the closest hole; pulling plunger all the way, pause, then release will almost always be in the furthest and putting the plunger in the middle and pausing almost always hits middle. Just pause in these spots and you'll liklely hit skillshot every time. Genie's ramp is then the next step for super-skillshot.

  62. #262
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    I'm pretty happy with it so far. Used 30-45 minutes to get 6,567.329,400 (just so Lukky can see what he needs) on theater of magic and that's something I can live with. I kinda feel that I don't have to waste an hour just to see if I have a chance of getting a new high score, like some of the Zen tables.

    Looks and feels okay but it takes time to get used to the bouncy little bastards. Multiball is hell on earth compared to Zen tables


    I'm happy we got this so we have some choice.

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Nation View Post
    This is the biggest drawback in my opinion. I just can't understand why Farsight didn't give us some way of viewing the entire playfield. If it would be too tricky to allow us to freeze the action and peer around on the fly all Zen style, fine. But to not give us ANY option to look the tables over is a let-down.

    Arabian Nights skillshot isn't hard once you get it down. There is no way to pull the plunger soft enough to get it to roll up the ramp and come back, so if you just barely pull, pause, let go, it will almost always hit the closest hole; pulling plunger all the way, pause, then release will almost always be in the furthest and putting the plunger in the middle and pausing almost always hits middle. Just pause in these spots and you'll liklely hit skillshot every time. Genie's ramp is then the next step for super-skillshot.
    Smashing, thanks for the info on the skill shot. Still a shame I can't actually see the punger retracting or some form of gauge.

  64. #264
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    Black Hole:
    To get the standard achievement you have to get the special from the roll-under at the top.
    In the standard goals description it tells you how to get this roll-under to be the special, the step before special is extra ball.
    If you never advance it to special, it seems like you can just keep getting this extra ball. As anyone on my friend's list can tell you I don't score very high, but my 1.19M from milking this extra ball sets me @ 78 in leaderboard (I know its a young leader, but this is way higher than any other one I'm in).

  65. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by PSKay View Post
    Obviously, that guy is very good but unless the scoring is different on Pinball Arcade or I missed something, he only scored around a billion in that game. I put up almost 2 billion in my first game of Theatre of Magic on PA which ranks me not even in the top 100. So a 10 minute game certainly doesn't seem good enough to net you anywhere near a top spot on the leader boards.
    DutchTommy's game (where the scoring glitch occurred) lasted 10 minutes and he scored more than 10 Billions. If you seen him on the PFX2 leaderboards he's definitely one of the top players.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR_cb4wTiZU

    I doubt even with more practice and experience better players will last for more than 30 minutes but only time will tell of course so we'll see.
    Last edited by Pinmon; 04-05-2012 at 11:11 PM.

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinmon View Post
    DutchTommy's game (where the scoring glitch occurred) lasted 10 minutes and he scored more than 10 Billions. If you seen him on the PFX2 leaderboards he's definitely one of the top players.
    I doubt even with more practice and experience better players will last for more than 30 minutes but only time will tell of course so we'll see.
    I think it takes a bit longer. The video is 11 min and at the beginning of the recording he already scored around 6 Billion. So the game itself is probably more around 30 minutes.

    My longest lasted around 15-20 minutes.

  67. #267
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    The more I play, the more I enjoy TOM and TOTAN as tables.

    However, the more I play, the more I'm dissatisfied with what FarSight have done on the 360 version.

    This really is a rush job, to go with the rush jobs on Android, iOS and the Mac.

    The UI is just rubbish for a modern title. The high score system is half-arsed.

    The graphics pale in comparison to Zen's offerings. The attention to detail simply isn't there. Badly designed, overblown, high-contrast lighting means you can barely read some of the table notices. Low polygon counts means that the table elements look rough. Low quality textures are everywhere.

    And then there's the (supposed) PS3 version. No great thing in itself by Zen's standards, but far still superior to the 360 version:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/playsta...og/7046003393/




    The games are great. How could they not be? But the implementations are not.

    BIG SIGH.

    If only Zen had managed to secure these licences. They'd have been able to give them the care they deserve.

  68. #268
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    Also, the leader boards must be broken, because cracker has the top score on TOTAN from all my Friends.


  69. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
    I think it takes a bit longer. The video is 11 min and at the beginning of the recording he already scored around 6 Billion. So the game itself is probably more around 30 minutes.

    My longest lasted around 15-20 minutes.
    Gah. You're right, I had not noticed the recording begun at 6B. So probably 25-30minutes. Still, a long shot from Paranormal/X-Men/Ms 'Splosion and co. almost indefinite games.

  70. #270

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    One small thing I dislike, although relatively minor is the dmd in TPA. Or rather the fact that it doesn't look dot-matrix at all. Instead it seems it's been "squashed".

  71. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    If only Zen had managed to secure these licences. They'd have been able to give them the care they deserve.
    F***, now you're making me think of what could have been/could be(?) if Zen had access to real life table licences.

    It's clear (for me) that Zen excel at production value/attention to details etc over their competitors.
    Otoh, while I enjoy Zen's original tables, I still prefer real life classic tables design and the more realistic physics approach.



    Zen + real licence + more realistic physics would be awesome.

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinmon View Post
    One small thing I dislike, although relatively minor is the dmd in TPA. Or rather the fact that it doesn't look dot-matrix at all. Instead it seems it's been "squashed".
    Yeah, they need to include the plasma grid (i.e. the Dot Matrix) and glow on the DMD.

    It should look like this:




    Zen's DMD, for their part, isn't a whole lot better. It has the grid, but not the plasma glow. And Zen insist on using colours that are hard to see, including a dirty mustard that looks ... ick.

    e.g.


    and




    Clearly, these DMDs look nothing at all like the real thing. It's ironic that the shader work in the menus looks better than the DMD...
    Last edited by Womble; 04-06-2012 at 12:17 AM.

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Also, the leader boards must be broken, because cracker has the top score on TOTAN from all my Friends.
    This sad situation has now been corrected, and the rightful heir to top spot has taken his wombly place.

    At least until Roy gets his act together.

    Sadly, and strangely, Cracker has a high score on TOM. Maybe his little brother is playing on his account again?
    Last edited by Womble; 04-06-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchTommy View Post
    Wow Roy, that sucks. I guess FarSight didn't see far enough to think anyone would get 10 billion. They didn't know they're dealing with you!

    And after seeing that, I thought I might have a similar situation with Black Hole. As everyone may know, that pin only displays 6 digits. So when I hit 1 million and saw the score rollover, I thought of your video. But thankfully it keeps track of you total score at the end.

    So the new high score game on ToM is to get as close to 10 billion without going over! The #1 score has a good start at 9,993,993,990. I wonder if he knew he was in danger of rolling over.
    Last edited by x Zot x; 04-06-2012 at 07:05 PM.

  75. #275
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    Honestly, score rollovers in pinball are fine; all tables do have score rollovers.

    However, I think FarSight should get better with their score recognition by actually integrating score rollovers as part of their leaderboards (local and online). Their current leaderboard system reads a little too much on the game rom and not the reality of the scores. Other than that and the graphics issue, this game is an absolute blast.

    Speaking of flaws, I'm not worried about the user interface right now, but they really do need to address it soon; once they reach 10+ tables the UI will become a chore to navigate. Also, I think online head-to-head should have been included Day 1. I wouldn't use it since I'm not a fan of the Xbox Live Gold pricing, but most gamers have it. FarSight said a few months ago it will be included eventually. Once they address those issues, I would consider this game to be a very strong competitor with Zen's products.
    Last edited by HardcorePinballGamer4Life; 04-06-2012 at 03:46 PM.

  76. #276

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    Has anyone else noticed that this game doesn't have 5.1 dolby digital audio? At first I didn't notice but then it became glaring that almost all the audio was only coming out of my center channel only. The menu options don't have anything related to audio. Can anyone else confirm that it's only 2.0 stereo audio for this game?

    If this is the case I have to say I'm pretty appalled, especially with the age of true HD gaming. One of the best aspects of Zen Pinball in my personal opinion, is the HD sound that's accompanied with the beatiful graphics. I understand that these real life tables were never equipped with that type of sound and they're basically just emulating for the most part but I'm really disappointed.

  77. #277
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    A FarSight Studios employee addressed my request about their leaderboard system.

    http://pinballarcadefans.com/showthr...er-Recognition

    It's good to know they are trying to solve this issue.

    Update: Someone pointed out to me that there are scores over 10 Billion points on the iOS leaderboards and sure enough there are. So it seems this flaw is only on the Xbox 360, thus far.

    So yeah, awesome game on the iOS (will be even better once Game Center support is released), but somewhat of a disappointment on the Xbox 360.
    Last edited by HardcorePinballGamer4Life; 04-06-2012 at 09:50 PM.

  78. #278
    Writer of Guides ShoryukenToTheChin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post
    Also, the leader boards must be broken, because cracker has the top score on TOTAN from all my Friends.

    Don't worry I put him back in his place lol

    Yeh I wished that Zen got the licenses to do these, as Ive constantly been saying that Zen is better than Farsight. Ah well im getting enjoyment out of Farsights product so that is one pro to their product.
    Last edited by ShoryukenToTheChin; 04-07-2012 at 01:11 AM.


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  79. #279
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    First of all kudos to the cool people at Zen Studios for allowing a thread like this. You guys rock!

    So, I got this Pinball Arcade and I like it. It sure is different from PFX2. The balls are very light weighted and they fly here and there and multiball is pure mayhem. I've never played any of the real life tables, but it does feel like playing a real table as many expert players have pointed out.
    What I do NOT like about the game is the many bugs, some of which are very annoying and the 10 bil bug is just unacceptable! I am having issues with the camera options, especially the plunger camera. Shame that you can't see how much power you put on the shot. Sometimes the balls move irratically, as if the screen has problems in updating, and why aren't there an option to turn off the music or maybe just a way of mixing the sound levels?

    The most polished part of the game is probably the legal notices...lol. And one funny little detail I noticed yesterday: on Ripleys Believe it or not, there are signs on the bottom of the table that reads: "Hold flippers down FOR FOR info". I thought it was funny that noone has noticed.

    But let's hope that Farsight gets busy and patches the game as soon as possible. I can live with the bugs, but they are annoying!

    To me PBFX2 is superior to PA. The creative and innovative design of their tables are such a joy to me.

    Pinballs lovers are lucky these days to be able to play all these cool tables. And I for one will support both games as long as they keep up the good work.

    Feel free to add me to your friendslist if you like. Besides from the 4 PA tables, I have all the PBFX tables and I play them regularly. I am NOT a good player, rather quite average. My gamertag is: Beaugild

  80. #280

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    Just had a game of Black Hole where it glitched and thought it was in multiball for most of the game. This means no drains from the middle playfield and a super high score.

    What a buggy mess this turned out to be. They should have worked on it more during the "delayed for placement" week.

  81. #281

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    Wow, another update:

    Was playing Ripleys this morning, and had all super jackpots lit for the frog multiball goal. I had a multiball going, drained one ball and had the other one disapper. Called the attendant, and it said there wasn't a problem. Then a 20 second countdown appears in the DMD and says "searching for ball". After the 20 seconds, it says "one ball missing", then goes right back into the countdown!

    Tried tilting out, but the game was locked and wouldn't do anything.......so I lost one of the hardest wizard goals in the first four pack..........

    Anyone on the fence about this game, at least WAIT for a bugfix, it's a mess.....

  82. #282
    Junior Member LK9T9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postman View Post
    I had a multiball going, drained one ball and had the other one disapper. Called the attendant, and it said there wasn't a problem. Then a 20 second countdown appears in the DMD and says "searching for ball". After the 20 seconds, it says "one ball missing", then goes right back into the countdown!

    Tried tilting out, but the game was locked and wouldn't do anything......
    Same here.

  83. #283
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    The more I play TPA the more annoyed I get with out-lanes. No mater what I do (especially Arabian Nights) to ball goes out.

    Still having fun though. I guess it is like real pinball. You get a great score, have a great ball in one game and is seems that the next games you can't keep the ball in play.

    Looking forward to more DLC tables from both Zen and Farsight Next month.

  84. #284
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    There's a real bad bug on BoP (Android) where a ball can go back to the plunger but the game can't see it and you can't relaunch the ball, calling the attendant some times works but messes up the game bad if your in the "Human" stage multi ball.

  85. #285

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    Well, after playing with TPA some more, unfortnately I have to take back a lot of what I said...

    The physics for one are all kind of messed up; the ball is either too bouncy (extremely hard to capture) too slow AND too fast at the same time...and that doesn't even make any sense. Especially during multiball the ball(s) are so unrealistically fast when they collide with one another it's downright silly. Seems the acceleration/deceleration code for the physics is severely messed up. And yes, this is all compared to real life, not just compared to PFX2. Zen's engines -while not completely realistic, is just better.

    That's not even counting the weird stuff like balls going through the flippers. I've had this happens many times on Black Hole.

    In terms of options and user interface it's not even funny how much it's lacking. There's not even the Operate adjustments. Seriously, even Zen have this option...and Zen's tables are not even real life tables lol. Seriously it's like way upside down.

    Graphically, it seem last-gen level compared to PFX2.



    It's too bad because I really wished this was going to be great. Like I said, I still prefer these tables in terms of design compared to Zen's. It's just that TPA doesn't do these real life tables justice.

    It's reallys too bad Zen doesn't have and will not have -seeing as FarSight does, the license for the tables because that would have kicked so much ass. Let's hope this will not be a repeat of "Game Room" for FarSight but so far it doesn't look good.
    Last edited by BarbieBobomb; 04-20-2012 at 04:22 PM.

  86. #286
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    From FaceBook, in response to news that the next DLC will be Cirqus Voltaire (hooray) and Funhouse.

    Great news on the updates. Was hoping for a package deal or something. 5 bucks for 2 new tables can get expensive real quick...


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