FarSight launches new Pinball title

[shogun00]

With all of the licenses already picked up by Farsight, do you think Zen would? Only one or two big companies that FS is missing.

Not quite! Stern Pinball owns the assets on the tables that Data East and Sega made. And FarSight released out a Gottlieb collection of PHOF in the past.

It looks like they have licenses with all of the major players, if you look at those two factors.

I, and others would rather Zen keep up with what they're doing, with OPs.

I agree, because that is one of the Zen's best qualities. They are really creative with their work.

[Womble]

With all of the licenses already picked up by Farsight, do you think Zen would?

Back in late July, cracker said in an interview that Zen was in talks with manufacturers of classic tables.

Hopefully it's still possible for Zen to pick up some titles on a table-by-table basis, though admittedly that does seem unlikely.

[ShinobiSteve]

Not quite! Stern Pinball owns the assets on the tables that Data East and Sega made. And FarSight released out a Gottlieb collection of PHOF in the past.

It looks like they have licenses with all of the major players, if you look at those two factors.

Yeah, that's what I meant. With all the licenses Farsight has, Zen doesn't really have much for re-creating classics. Could always re-do some Capcom ones though I suppose.

[Bababooeyville]

I think farsight can fill the void that many of you seem to express and put out a more "realistic" pinball experience.

While Zen can continue with its more fantastic approach(which I think I prefer). I like the exagerrated nudging and physics. It makes it damn fun to me.

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Zen has a better approach if you ask me, Zen is more likely to get new players into Pinball then Farsight. I base this on Farsight is looking to supply the Hardcore Pinball lovers who remember the old skool tables, whereas Zen are trying to find the balance between the Hardcore & Casual. Now if Zen achieves this I believe they cant be touched.

I wont be surprised if Farsight delays this game so many times as they did the same thing with near all there titles. It will be an interesting battle regardless.

It will come down to the individual, I for one have the Williams Pinball Classics game, yes its a fun throwback but after a while it just doesn't have that edge that Zen has.

This is just my opinion, but yes I can agree 100% its a great time for us PinHeads for sure!!!

[Dalek Nation]

It will come down to the individual, I for one has the Williams Pinball Classics game, yes its a fun throwback but after a while it just doesn't have that edge that Zen has.

This is just my opinion, but yes I can agree 100% its a great time for us PinHeads for sure!!!

Agree about the Williams classics.

I think real machines are neat because they are a complete package, that is, a complete "Real" package. Something is lost in translation; its still fun, but I'm not going to pound on the virtual Pin*bot as feverishly as I would the "real" Pin*bot. Different feel, different flow; a real ball will always feel different (imo).

Second problem: Real tables were designed to STEAL QUARTERS! I can't remember which company was worst about this, but I remember going to a pinball hall with a friend who knew his pinball, annoyingly such, and he would avoid any table made by *???* claiming they were a trap to steal quarters. Obviously this was a major motivator in arcades, to keep you losing to get your quarters, and on a virtual table I may not be dropping quarters, but no one wants, for example, an outlane that drains the ball everytime the ball rolls down the right side or ramps that can't be defended against if you get a ball only half-way up.

[satch]

FarSight have posted on their facebook page in responce to some one commenting on the ball physics. "The physics have been improved in several ways" I think they mentioned..heavier and faster ball.

ZEN are still around 5000 more likes on FB so FarSight have a lot to prove.

[Cloda]

FarSight have posted on their facebook page in responce to some one commenting on the ball physics. "The physics have been improved in several ways" I think they mentioned..heavier and faster ball.

ZEN are still around 5000 more likes on FB so FarSight have a lot to prove.

Its beginning to look really promising, much more than I initially hoped for. I'm pretty sure Zen studios success has a lot to with pushing them on. But just like Farsight Studios in their previous games got certain things right better than Zen studios, such as the Achievements and the rule sheets, they are still doing some things better such as properly responding on their facebook page . Zen can learn something from them... they actually respond to their community often and with proper answers rather than just hints and taunts . They should also watch out with them now having delayed Epic Quest to end January, that they are going to have to compete with The Pinball Arcade coming out at the same time... so, better reconsider bringing the table out earlier if you ask me

[Dalek Nation]

They should also watch out with them now having delayed Epic Quest to end January, that they are going to have to compete with The Pinball Arcade coming out at the same time... so, better reconsider bringing the table out earlier if you ask me

noooo, Zen don't listen!! Ship it when it works.. don't release until March if it means you release a bug free product. "Competition" from someone reproducing old tables to digital format isn't going to keep anyone who's a fan of PBFX2 from buying PBFX2 tables. I played PHOF Williams for a few weeks, but I play PBFX2 daily.

[Zuprichy]

Well, maybe it's only me, but the classic tables( which i hadn't the chance to play "for real") look quite "poor" to me, there doesn't seem much to do, and all the "videogame only" features that Zen offers really makes the tables more interesting to me.(i.e character animations, balls on fire, levitating balls and such).As i said, only an impression.

[HardcorePinballGamer4Life]

I disagree with the majority of posts here. FarSight's physics could be improved, like anything else that has ever been created, but it's not like Zen's physics are top of the crop either; if FarSight's games have "moonball" physics, then the best way I could describe Zen's physics would be anvil-like as I feel their physics are a little on the heavy side. In addition, the slingshot pass, one of the most basic pinball skills, is laughably hard to perform on Zen's outings due to the gravity of their ball physics; compare that to FarSight's outings, which I have been successfully performing that skill, just like in real pinball.

Both FarSight and Zen Studios have ball physics that would be considered passable to elite pinball fans; one would have to be very hard-pressed to find a better physics engine than either game series, with the Pro Pinball series as an exception.

As for me, I consider the Zen Studios pinball series to be a really nice companion piece to the FarSight Studios pinball simulations.

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

Well, maybe it's only me, but the classic tables( which i hadn't the chance to play "for real") look quite "poor" to me, there doesn't seem much to do, and all the "videogame only" features that Zen offers really makes the tables more interesting to me.(i.e character animations, balls on fire, levitating balls and such).As i said, only an impression.

Spend a few hours at the PB museum and you will be like, Zen who? Or at least I would hope most so called "pinball fans" would.

[Womble]

There's plenty of ignorance in this thread.

Interesting start to your first post.

It's pointless to have a flame war over this game, anyway; it's been somewhat lopsided as well since this is a Zen Studios forum, thus fanboyism is very high in this thread.

Q. Are you here to quell the (alleged) fanboy flames, or fan them?

It is possible to have a reasonable, civil discussion about pinball without calling people ignorant. Try it.

Most of the people in this thread seem to either own PHOF, or have tried it. Both products could stand to be improved. It's not a case of either-or. They're complementary products, each with pros and cons.

As for FarSight forum, is there one? It's only very recently that FarSight have started responding to public questions, via FaceBook. Thus most discussion about PHOF has been on non-official channels, such as this one.

[HardcorePinballGamer4Life]

It simply wasn't my intention to hurt anyone's feelings; I made that post to make a disagreement with the majority of posts in this particular thread.

I mean no ill feelings towards the community as I respect their opinion, even though I disagree with them. Maybe the words "ignorance" and "fanboyism" were a little over the top, but I didn't feel those couple words would be too harsh and troll-like at the time I posted my message.

Sorry to offend Womble or anyone else in this thread.

[Womble]

'tis OK. I'm the resident sensitive soul around here.

There's a great bunch of pinballers around here. Just don't want to see it becoming like rec.games.pinball (i.e. a place for arguments and name-calling.)

Cheers.

[Bababooeyville]

Its not like there is a glut of games for us pinheads, we have more pinball coming, I think it is a time to rejoice.
I hope farsights game is good, cant wait to check it out.

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

Its not like there is a glut of games for us pinheads, we have more pinball coming, I think it is a time to rejoice.
I hope farsights game is good, cant wait to check it out.

I agree. Let's join hands and rotate in a circle.

[Cloda]

I disagree with the majority of posts here. FarSight's physics could be improved, like anything else that has ever been created, but it's not like Zen's physics are top of the crop either; if FarSight's games have "moonball" physics, then the best way I could describe Zen's physics would be anvil-like as I feel their physics are a little on the heavy side. In addition, the slingshot pass, one of the most basic pinball skills, is laughably hard to perform on Zen's outings due to the gravity of their ball physics; compare that to FarSight's outings, which I have been successfully performing that skill, just like in real pinball.

Both FarSight and Zen Studios have ball physics that would be considered passable to elite pinball fans; one would have to be very hard-pressed to find a better physics engine than either game series, with the Pro Pinball series as an exception.

As for me, I consider the Zen Studios pinball series to be a really nice companion piece to the FarSight Studios pinball simulations.

Welcome to the forum

Zen pinball's physic isn't accurate but it feels a whole lot more real. This has been discussed to death already on this forum and my conclusions in the end was that unless you have a healthy dose of nostalgia from playing the real tables, Williams Pinball Classics is just not that wonderful and fun to play as FX 2. I went into a bit more detail on why I don't really like William Pinball Classics on a post earlier in this thread: http://forum.zenstudios.com/showpost...3&postcount=70

I have since raised my expectations as I posted yesterday and am now really looking forward to it.

[Bababooeyville]

Welcome to the forum

Zen pinball's physic isn't accurate but it feels a whole lot more real. This has been discussed to death already on this forum and my conclusions in the end was that unless you have a healthy dose of nostalgia from playing the real tables, Williams Pinball Classics is just not that wonderful and fun to play as FX 2. I went into a bit more detail on why I don't really like William Pinball Classics on a post earlier in this thread: http://forum.zenstudios.com/showpost...3&postcount=70

I have since raised my expectations as I posted yesterday and am now really looking forward to it.

does accurate=fun?
I dont care about accurate, I want intensity and fun. And after you play awhile you adapt to it and it does feel real.
You probaly wouldnt notice a difference untill you play on a real world table.

[Dalek Nation]

Thought I'd cue you all in on Farsight's plans.
They had two recent updates to the info. First off, looks like they plan on doing a "table of the month" deal, with a table being offered for as little as $0.99 every month:
https://twitter.com/#!/PinballArcade...83237192925184
Likely that will be the lower, $2 price for regular tables as I don't see how they can try to compete with FX "table-to-table."

Also, looks like its been pushed back to March '12; but I don't remember the link to this info.

While it will be neat at first to have other tables to play, I wasn't impressed by thier Williams:PHOF. While the physics are debatable, I didn't like thier treatment of No Good Go'fers nor Tales of... which are two awesome games in real life. The virtual copies were way to cluttery/muddy looking, with the ball difficult to track and (on Go'fers esspecially) nearly impossible to aim certain shots.
Lets face it, "real tables", no matter how cool, don't necessarily make for good 2D virtual translations.

[shogun00]

Also, looks like its been pushed back to March '12; but I don't remember the link to this info.

Here's what I've read on their Facebook page a few weeks ago.

- Android and iOS versions come out later this month.
- PS3, Xbox 360 and PC versions come out in late March.
- PS Vita version may come out on system's launch (2/22).
- 3DS version to come out after March.
- Wii-U version is in the works.

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

They supposedly really improved thei physics, especially with the extra time. I hope so, then everything will just be bad ass.

[SBVIPER]

Wow, this thread really had some heated debate. However the bulk of the arguments against FS are mostly back in November. Let's get up to speed. FarSight does have the Bally, Williams, Gottlieb, and Stern licensing rights. I agree with Womble that everyone has a right to their opinion and to each his own. However most of the expample he gave at the beginning of this thread are outdated and based on the old FarSight PHoF game. For instance. If you watch the You Tube vids under "The Pinball Arcade" account that FS just recently posted you can see the following.

1: Watch the vids on 720p or better @ full screen and you will see that the visuals are stunning, from the front to the back of the table

2: In this NEW engine, the lighting is fantastic. Notice The Black Hole demo looks like a real BH table that has an LED mod taken to it.

3: FarSight is using a 3D modeling technique on the Ball called "Cube Mapping" that emulates "Ray Tracing". This means now the ball genuinly reflects real time scenery as it passes objects including the playfield surface. See their "Ball Tech Demo" Vid for an example. I'm not knocking Zen in any way (Love Zen) however they are still using a static image on their ball like the OLD PHoF.

4: Sound effects have been greatly improved over the PHoP:WC. One sound effect that Zen uses that's never been quite right is the hollow pringle can thunk thunk thunk that the ball makes when it hits dead ends. I've repaired pinball machines for 20 years and never had a table make that thunk sound. Not a big deal though.

5: Some complained that the FS ball speed is too slow. That's by table design. I've played many a real table where the ball is very slow and meticulus. Not ever table is going to be a blazer like Pinbot.

6: Some mentioned a lack of FS's nudging effects. This is a two way argument for both Zen and FarSight. On PHoF if the ball is falling directly down the middle, I can nudge left or right and the ball will shift and I can save the ball. On Zen's tables in the same set up, I've nudged left or right and the ball still went right down the drain with no effect. This happens often. on the other hand, I've never been able to Bang Back/Death Save on the PHoF. Ever! So I hope FarSight Addresses this in the new engine.

7: As Cloda and others have mentioned. Please try not to judge the final product of a game based on You Tube videos. They give us a good example of things to come but they are streaming videos and wont look as good as the actual game live in person.

Bottom line is that all of us Pinheads need not feel like we're going to be forced to choose one side or the other! Competition is good/ nay, great for business and it's only a win win for us the players. As for as the hate for the previous FS engine, I'd say put it in the past and lets wait to judge thier efforts on the NEW engine coming up.

Finally Several people in the thread were complaining about FarSights Pinbot table on how the ball would shoot down the left outlane as if magnets pulled it there. Well here's the truth from the Ex-Tech's mouth. FarSight's Pinbot play's exactly like the REAL Pinbot. I've work on enough to know that table is fast and furious and it's by design. The angles on that table will shoot the ball down the left the majority of the time. It was not a FarSight miss-design.

That said, If any of you would like to discuss this further with me my Xbox 360 gamer tag is: SBVIPER feel free to add if you wish. The more pinheads the better lol.

[Dalek Nation]

The difficulty comes from getting used to Zen and going to the FS tables (speaking from PHOF on this point) or the other way around. They play very different, so it's difficult to get used to flipping back and forth. Personally, I'm in love with late 70's early 80's tables, so I have to get my Gorgar fix.

One small note on nudging: In PHOF you can nudge the ball so hard and so much that you can get the ball to the other side of the table... while this makes Gorgar a helluva lot easier, and Jive Time playable, on other tables it makes things too easy/unrealistic. While turning "Tilt" off is possible after beating the Wizard challenges, I found this pointless as you can nudge almost as often as you please anyhow. I prefer how Zen has it too where you can save yourself from a STDM, but not dramaticly alter the balls path.

While I'll likely buy every table available (from both) PBFX will always be tops in my house (no one else will play PHOF with me ) and I guarantee it gets far more play time overall.

..... and LOL and on the Pinbot comment from PBViper, that's why as cool as Pionbot is I never put a quarter in a real one. Outlanes are MEANT to steal quarters in real pinball. Gorgar is a major fave, but the real table can take 2/3 of your balls in outlanes B4 U can EVEN USE A FLIPPER.... real tables so mean.

[SBVIPER]

The difficulty comes from getting used to Zen and going to the FS tables (speaking from PHOF on this point) or the other way around. They play very different, so it's difficult to get used to flipping back and forth. Personally, I'm in love with late 70's early 80's tables, so I have to get my Gorgar fix.

One small note on nudging: In PHOF you can nudge the ball so hard and so much that you can get the ball to the other side of the table... while this makes Gorgar a helluva lot easier, and Jive Time playable, on other tables it makes things too easy/unrealistic. While turning "Tilt" off is possible after beating the Wizard challenges, I found this pointless as you can nudge almost as often as you please anyhow. I prefer how Zen has it too where you can save yourself from a STDM, but not dramaticly alter the balls path.

While I'll likely buy every table available (from both) PBFX will always be tops in my house (no one else will play PHOF with me ) and I guarantee it gets far more play time overall.

..... and LOL and on the Pinbot comment from SBViper, that's why as cool as Pionbot is I never put a quarter in a real one. Outlanes are MEANT to steal quarters in real pinball. Gorgar is a major fave, but the real table can take 2/3 of your balls in outlanes B4 U can EVEN USE A FLIPPER.... real tables so mean.

Oh, I hear you Dalek, that's what made the Williams challenge to unlock Jive Time tough becuase you had to reach that certain score before you moved on. Pinbot was usually the challenge killer becuase of that left outlane.

I'd love to play PHoF over LIVE but unfortunately they didn't at that feature at the time. Hopefully, The Pinball Arcade will include LIVE like ZEN does.

One feature I'd like added to Pinball FX 2.5 that PHoF does is more tactile contact when you hit the ball. I like the fact that you get a slight rumble when you hit the ball with the flipper. It helps to give the ball a more weighted feel.

Cheers!

[shogun00]

Oh, I hear you Dalek, that's what made the Williams challenge to unlock Jive Time tough because you had to reach that certain score before you moved on. Pinbot was usually the challenge killer because of that left outlane.

For me it was Medieval Madness. Too many STDMs.

[Womble]

@SBVIPER Yep, my comments were mostly relating to my PHOF experiences. (A game which, I have to say, I simply do not play. The physics kill it for me.)

Also, Farsight's communication with their fans was, well, almost non-existent. Release dates were completely vapourous. However, it's likely that their hands were bound by all the various publishing arrangements and hassles around the world. Of late, they've really stepped up their game, and have been very open. (They're now giving Zen a run for their money in the communication stakes.)

The new videos look great, and it's obvious that the physics have been considerably improved. (Despite Farsight saying their physics were already the best available... go figure.)

Zen has some serious competition now. Which is good for all concerned.

[SBVIPER]

@SBVIPER Yep, my comments were mostly relating to my PHOF experiences. (A game which, I have to say, I simply do not play. The physics kill it for me.)

Also, Farsight's communication with their fans was, well, almost non-existent. Release dates were completely vapourous. However, it's likely that their hands were bound by all the various publishing arrangements and hassles around the world. Of late, they've really stepped up their game, and have been very open. (They're now giving Zen a run for their money in the communication stakes.)

The new videos look great, and it's obvious that the physics have been considerably improved. (Despite Farsight saying their physics were already the best available... go figure.)

Zen has some serious competition now. Which is good for all concerned.

I agree all around. As I stating before *somewhere?*; in the end It's a Win-Win situation for pinball enthusiasts everywhere. You can't tell me that Zen employees won't have The Pinball Arcade on their systems and FarSight I'm sure has Zen's game on thiers. It's only healthy!

Come Os o' Festival!!!!! This is going to be a Banner year for Pinheads!

Cheers!

[Solitude]

I agree all around. As I stating before *somewhere?*; in the end It's a Win-Win situation for pinball enthusiasts everywhere. You can't tell me that Zen employees won't have The Pinball Arcade on their systems and FarSight I'm sure has Zen's game on thiers. It's only healthy!

Come Os o' Festival!!!!! This is going to be a Banner year for Pinheads!

Cheers!

Yep. It will be great to have some high-quality reproductions of classic tables! Farsight's products are up there with the Pro Pinball games as some of the best. I wish they would do some original tables, too, but operating out of California probably makes that too expensive to be feasible for them, as it's more time and labor-intensive.

A while ago (1 year+, if I remember right), we were talking with them, trying to figure out some way to get all the tables into a single product, but ultimately there wasn't a solution that made sense for both sides. It's a shame it didn''t work out, but I see the two games as being complementary - one with recreations of classic tables, and one with brand new content.

[jibblypop]

I see the two games as being complementary - one with recreations of classic tables, and one with brand new content.

Absolutely. I will be buying all the tables for both games and I'm sure I am not the only one.

[SBVIPER]

Absolutely! Not only is it important that the two Brands exist in a complementary fashion, but that the two companies maintain there individualism. There's been debates on FarSights engine isn't enough like Zen's or vice versa. IMO, you wouldn't want the two engines to be identical. That would take away each brands opportunity to be unique as well as lessen the variety for the users.

Cheers!

[Thirdrail]

Damn I knew farsight sounded familiar. Their tutorials CRUSH Zen's. Zen, please make rules/tutorials like Farsight did on Williams Hall of Fame.

Fixed! At least on the swanky new 3DS version. Presumably the older versions of the game will get brought up to speed eventually.

It's pretty funny reading this long, vehement, highly personal, defense of Farsight's work. I mean, I like their game too, but if you can look at A PINBALL GAME WHERE THE BALL DOESN'T ROLL and then be dismissive of people who don't launch into back flips over the authenticity of the tables...

Seriously, man. That says a lot more about the gaps in your perception than it does theirs.

[SBVIPER]

Fixed! but if you can look at A PINBALL GAME WHERE THE BALL DOESN'T ROLL

Hey Thirdrail,

As it's already been pointed out, your statement is based on FarSights old engine from PHoF, that's not in use anymore. If you scroll back up to post # 123, you will see some of the features of the new engine. You can also check it out by looking "The Pinball Arcade" on You Tube.

Even ZEN's management has given FarSight props on their new endeavor. There pinball does "roll" now and uses Cube mapping to give Ray Tracing effect to reflect real time surface environments. Check it out! : )

Cheers!

[satch]

[QUOTE=SBVIPER;20486]Oh, I hear you Dalek, that's what made the Williams challenge to unlock Jive Time tough becuase you had to reach that certain score before you moved on. Pinbot was usually the challenge killer becuase of that left outlane.

QUOTE]

I think i got lucky as i completed the Williams challenge on my first try, now playing the table(PINBOT) on its own wind's me up some thing rotten with the constant drains some times with out even getting the chance to touch the ball with a flipper.

Its good to get Solitude's view on the FARSIGHT tables. For my part i will continue to buy all Zen's tables and probably just the tables from FARSIGHT that i have fond memories of.

[SBVIPER]

wind's me up some thing rotten with the constant drains some times with out even getting the chance to touch the ball with a flipper.

Its good to get Solitude's view on the FARSIGHT tables. For my part i will continue to buy all Zen's tables and probably just the tables from FARSIGHT that i have fond memories of.

Yeah when the ball drops out of the vortex into the jet bumpers, you have to be ready with a double up nudge because that bank angle will shoot it right down the left lane and your like uh.. where'd the ball go!

I too am in the catagory of I'll buy every table that comes down the pike!

ZEN could make a table themed after Justin Bieber Learns to Knit, and I would still buy it just becuase of the quality Zen puts into thier tables!

[Zuprichy]

ZEN could make a table themed after Justin Bieber Learns to Knit, and I would still buy it just becuase of the quality Zen puts into thier tables!

Yep... I'd too,anyway!

[Womble]

Yep. It will be great to have some high-quality reproductions of classic tables! Farsight's products are up there with the Pro Pinball games as some of the best.

Does this mean you've put aside any plans for classic tables of your own?

On another matter...

Regarding the FarSight tutorials "crushing" Zen's, well, yes they were pretty good and Zen's... weren't. However, the sad panda news is that FarSight have dropped the tutorial voice-over in The Pinball Arcade, in favour of text-only. (They say it's due to game download sizes.)

[Big White Mint]

Does anyone really have to pick and choose here? Zen and Farsight are the only pinball video game makers in town. Both make high quality pinball games (though I prefer the real tables myself). Real pinball is dying, slowly but surely. Perhaps there will be increased interest for real machines partly fueled by Zen and Farsight's efforts, but in any case, we all need to send a message that there is a strong interest in video pinball before the concept of pinball fades from gaming.

To the FarSight haters, it's clear that they've improved the physics in ways you've requested and upped the graphical quality. And if you don't think the "old" tables have enough going on, watch the rules for Theatre of Magic or read up on the rules for Ripley's, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, or Simpson's Pinball Party. To the Zen haters, Zen keeps working toward capturing the real table feel. Their sound design has improved tremendously and their table layouts, rules, and callouts get better and better. There will be no poor quality tables from either studio moving forward.

We might be living in a golden age for video pinball, and I plan to take every opportunity. I know I will not be thrilled by every table Zen or Farsight releases, but what's buying every table going to cost me a year? Forty to sixty bucks at most? That's an amazing deal for all the fun even with a few tables I don't love in a collection and it sends a very clear message - GIVE ME MORE.

[Solitude]

Does this mean you've put aside any plans for classic tables of your own?

On another matter...

Regarding the FarSight tutorials "crushing" Zen's, well, yes they were pretty good and Zen's... weren't. However, the sad panda news is that FarSight have dropped the tutorial voice-over in The Pinball Arcade, in favour of text-only. (They say it's due to game download sizes.)

Not being on a disc is one of several reasons we elected not to do videos. It's only relatively recently that download sizes on XBLA have been relaxed to the point where it would be possible, but it would still be a major inconvenience for people with slower connections, 4GB hard drives, bandwidth caps, etc.

[Womble]

[nerd mode on] The tutorials could be done without video. i.e. the game plays back using the existing engine, and each camera move is scripted. Negligible data storage requirements. I think this is how TPA is doing it.

Oh, and you didn't answer my question about Zen Classics, you naughty man.

[Solitude]

[nerd mode on] The tutorials could be done without video. i.e. the game plays back using the existing engine, and each camera move is scripted. Negligible data storage requirements. I think this is how TPA is doing it.

Oh, and you didn't answer my question about Zen Classics, you naughty man.

Actually, Pinball Arcade is just doing the same thing we did in our mobile/handheld versions - no actual gameplay, just text, arrows, and camera movements explaining where to hit the ball for each mode.

Personally, I think it's more fun when there are no instructions and you figure the table out using the dot-matrix hints and the flashing table lights. It makes you feel like you are discovering things rather than simply following a list of instructions. As you progress, you get the satisfaction of figuring something out rather than a feeling of failure when you couldn't perform something you were already told how to do.

But of course, we aren't making games just for ourselves...

[satch]

Actually, Pinball Arcade is just doing the same thing we did in our mobile/handheld versions - no actual gameplay, just text, arrows, and camera movements explaining where to hit the ball for each mode.

Personally, I think it's more fun when there are no instructions and you figure the table out using the dot-matrix hints and the flashing table lights. It makes you feel like you are discovering things rather than simply following a list of instructions. As you progress, you get the satisfaction of figuring something out rather than a feeling of failure when you couldn't perform something you were already told how to do.

But of course, we aren't making games just for ourselves...

Thats just the way i like to play, i very rarely look at the tuturials..but then my scores do lag behind the better players lol.
And you still didn't answer the question about making classic tables...sends Solitude to stand at the back of the room

[Womble]

Actually, Pinball Arcade is just doing the same thing we did in our mobile/handheld versions - no actual gameplay, just text, arrows, and camera movements explaining where to hit the ball for each mode.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. By "gameplay", I mean the game engine is running as normal, but with a scripted sequence of camera movements. One for each step of the tutorial. Thus, no video sequences required, and download size is kept to a minimum. Anyway, I'll stop harping on about it now.

Gotta say I'm sad to see TPA's narration go though. Oh well.

pssst Zen Classics... Give us some news!

[Solitude]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. By "gameplay", I mean the game engine is running as normal, but with a scripted sequence of camera movements. One for each step of the tutorial. Thus, no video sequences required, and download size is kept to a minimum. Anyway, I'll stop harping on about it now.

Gotta say I'm sad to see TPA's narration go though. Oh well.

pssst Zen Classics... Give us some news!

We haven't been able to get any table licenses worth having (Farsight has exclusive licenses, much like EA with NFL/Madden, and Stern is putting out their own game), so we're focusing on original content instead. The worst part of the whole thing is that we don't have an excuse to buy a bunch more tables for the office! On the other hand, it gives us more opportunities to build tables based on properties that are relevant right now vs. 15-20 years ago. Hopefully that will help build a new generation of pinball players who otherwise wouldn't give the genre a chance.

[Womble]

Fair enough, thanks for the info.

I'm sad that you won't be doing any classic games, but then we also need you doing original games, and continuing to innovate.

Is there a chance of seeing new games based on, well, more diverse IP? I'm a little over comic-book hero stuff at this point. They're good games and all, but I think some of your more interesting tables are also the more esoteric ones.

[Solitude]

Fair enough, thanks for the info.

I'm sad that you won't be doing any classic games, but then we also need you doing original games, and continuing to innovate.

Is there a chance of seeing new games based on, well, more diverse IP? I'm a little over comic-book hero stuff at this point. They're good games and all, but I think some of your more interesting tables are also the more esoteric ones.

Yes, there is some new stuff coming this year and next.

[jeffy777]

We haven't been able to get any table licenses worth having (Farsight has exclusive licenses, much like EA with NFL/Madden, and Stern is putting out their own game), so we're focusing on original content instead. The worst part of the whole thing is that we don't have an excuse to buy a bunch more tables for the office! On the other hand, it gives us more opportunities to build tables based on properties that are relevant right now vs. 15-20 years ago. Hopefully that will help build a new generation of pinball players who otherwise wouldn't give the genre a chance.

Stern is putting out their own game?

[jibblypop]

Stern is putting out their own game?

That is what rang out in my head as well when I read that. Wow.

The really weird thing about that is that Farsight has licensed Stern tables for their Pinball Arcade game.

[Solitude]

That is what rang out in my head as well when I read that. Wow.

The really weird thing about that is that Farsight has licensed Stern tables for their Pinball Arcade game.

I'm probably just confused. I saw a photo on Facebook of someone testing a Stern table on the 360 in Stern's offices. Must have been Pinball Arcade.

[SBVIPER]

I'm probably just confused. I saw a photo on Facebook of someone testing a Stern table on the 360 in Stern's offices. Must have been Pinball Arcade.

That makes perfect sense! If Stern is lending their Namesake and designs over to FarSight, then I'm sure there's going to be a little quality control testing going on to make sure their product is being accuately represented!

As for the Statement made that FarSight having licenses may prohibit the creation of 70's style Electro-Mechanical Pinball Tables; There's nothing stopping you guys at ZEN from creating your own "Old School" tables using the visual style and sound effects from that era.

If fact with ZEN's gift of imagination and talent, I'd rather play an Electro-Mechanical you guys imagined rather than an accurate remodeling of something that already existed. Think about it for a while! Cheers!

[jeffy777]

I wont be surprised if Farsight delays this game so many times as they did the same thing with near all there titles. It will be an interesting battle regardless.

I already have the beta on my iPad, so the release for mobile devices is just around the corner.

And the iOS version is absolutely fantastic, btw.

[Ex-Parrot]

Count me in with the 'healthy competition is nothing but a good thing for us pinballers' crowd. Just as long as the physics feel good, and the tables play well, I'm happy to support both Zen and FarSight. Even, or perhaps especially, if they each (Zen and FarSight) have their own distinct, but still enjoyble, style of play.

Zen has already proven themselves, so they have earnt my continued support. FarSight, well to be honest I wasn't particularly taken with their previous efforts, but if they have learnt from that and their new releases bring the goods, quality and playability wise, then I'll support their releses too. At the very least I'll happily give them a shot and let their tables do the talking.

Now if someone would just recreate Elvira & the Party Monsters for me that'd be absolutely aces. Elvira Scared Stiff wouldn't be unwelcome either.

[SBVIPER]

Couldn't agree more Ex-Parrot, I welcome any and all competition to keep the genre of pinball alive and healthy.

FarSight's new Engine is shaping up to be much better than the previous games. They've also stated that even when "The Pinball Arcade" is released they're still planning on tweaks to the engine on a regular basis.

If you haven't seen the new engine in action check out the link below, but remember, even these vids are from Nov. 11' and the final product due out at the end of March is still a work in progress. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngCU79_-JnY

[satch]

Count me in with the 'healthy competition is nothing but a good thing for us pinballers' crowd. Just as long as the physics feel good, and the tables play well, I'm happy to support both Zen and FarSight. Even, or perhaps especially, if they each (Zen and FarSight) have their own distinct, but still enjoyble, style of play.

Zen has already proven themselves, so they have earnt my continued support. FarSight, well to be honest I wasn't particularly taken with their previous efforts, but if they have learnt from that and their new releases bring the goods, quality and playability wise, then I'll support their releses too. At the very least I'll happily give them a shot and let their tables do the talking.

Now if someone would just recreate Elvira & the Party Monsters for me that'd be absolutely aces. Elvira Scared Stiff wouldn't be unwelcome either.

Same here for me. I'm hoping for a Gotlieb Street Fighter 11 championship table, this "was" my all time(real world) favorite pinball table.

[SBVIPER]

Just confirmed! FarSight has just announced that; Monster Bash, and Attack from Mars WILL amongst the first 6 months of DLC for The Pinball Arcade, still scheduled for an end of March release for Xbox 360.


Oh and Cirqus Voltaire has also been confirmed! Enjoy Pinheads!!!!

Cheers!

[Longi_land]

Sorry Zen...Pinball Arcade is BIG!...because it runs smooth on my iPhone 4!

[Womble]

Just confirmed! FarSight has just announced that; Monster Bash, and Attack from Mars WILL amongst the first 6 months of DLC for The Pinball Arcade, still scheduled for an end of March release for Xbox 360.!

Hooray for AFM!

I'm amazed they got the license for Monster Bash.

Some gameplay of TOM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rv9wK3US3g

[LukkyNL]

Wow. This game is amazing! I only have connectivity issues with facebook though...

The physics and graphics are so much improved.

I bet even Zen will play the Sh@t out of this game when it hits XBLA.

[Oskari14]

You already have it? When it was released?

[LukkyNL]

Today! I'm addicted as we speak

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Both Zen & Farsight will benefit from each others game in my opinion, as it brings more awareness to Pinball... it bring in the purests who only play the Classics and those may jump over and see how Zen fairs with their game.

It works the same way for the Zen follows as they will be thinking hmm wonder how these old skool classics play.

I just see this as Win Win!

Yey for Monster Bash!

[SwitchBlade]

You already have it? When it was released?

From their Facebook page, Xbox and PS3 version is still scheduled for a late March release.

I believe iphone and IPad versions have already been released.

[SBVIPER]

Hooray for AFM!

I'm amazed they got the license for Monster Bash.

Some gameplay of TOM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rv9wK3US3g

Hey Womble, Cheers! Was your link intended to show some Monster Bash footage? It took my to Theater of Magic on an Ipad 2. Just curious!

Thanks!

[LukkyNL]

Both Zen & Farsight will benefit from each others game in my opinion, as it brings more awareness to Pinball... it bring in the purests who only play the Classics and those may jump over and see how Zen fairs with their game.

It works the same way for the Zen follows as they will be thinking hmm wonder how these old skool classics play.

I just see this as Win Win!

Yey for Monster Bash!

Yes you are right. Looks like some revival for Pinball!

I think they said that Cirqus Voltaire would be their first dlc... 'drools'

[Womble]

Hey Womble, Cheers! Was your link intended to show some Monster Bash footage? It took my to Theater of Magic on an Ipad 2. Just curious!

Sorry, I just used the abbreviation "TOM" for Theatre of Magic.

It's looking pretty good, isn't it. The console versions should look even better.

Cannot wait to shoot me some Martians.

[Oskari14]

From their Facebook page, Xbox and PS3 version is still scheduled for a late March release.

I believe iphone and IPad versions have already been released.

Thanks Switchblade!

I hope their physics have been improved...

[LukkyNL]

Thanks Switchblade!

I hope their physics have been improved...

The physics are greatly improved imo! As are the details (textures aside ofcourse) and sounds. It's such an improvement over the hall of fame releases. The ball moves so smooth. For me its a pinball dream came true.

I cannot wait for the 360 release!

I almost forgot how addicting real tables and deep those tables were.

*just one more go on Theatre of Magic*

[Extrema22]

Will give this a go on XBLA for sure when it comes out! It looks great on ios from what I saw but I wonder how this will hold up in hd on the consoles? The early videos didn't impress me at all with the graphics. I know it's not all about that but it just looked odd to me. Maybe I'm just too spoiled with Zen's graphics . I'm still looking forward too it though, and the promise of dlc for years to come (I believe I read that) is amazing

[Extrema22]

Just got this on my Android phone and loving every minute of it!! It runs super smooth, looks and sounds great and the first 4 tables are a blast to play, well worth it to purchase them all. Can't wait for more tables! I'll probably won't get it on XBLA when it hits there though, unless the graphics are improved for the big screen. Zen on xbox and Farsight on Android go hand in hand perfectly for me

[SwitchBlade]

Not sure about XBOX, but according to their Facebook Page, the official release date for the PS3 will be April 10th.

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Not sure about XBOX, but according to their Facebook Page, the official release date for the PS3 will be April 10th.

Yeh odd thing is on xbox.com marketplace it shows 28th March.. I hope that is true.

[Lepruk86]

Who knows at the moment; their release schedule is sketchy to put it politely when it comes to games etc.

But as I said in the other thread, the Android version is insanely good. Much better than Williams collection in terms of physics engine etc.

I hope it holds up well on the other platforms. I will be doing some harsh testing with the first set of tables to see if they genuinely have made changes from Williams (testing repeatable shots / techniques etc).

But if all is good then they will have my full support (don't worry Zen, still love you guys too xD).

I know Zen's engine isn't a perfect emulation of real ball physics either; but at least it's fluent and cohesive. The ball moves believably, the collision is generally as accurate as you can honestly expect it to be etc. Everything feels right within the boundaries of the physics Zen uses.

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Zen Studios + Farsight = Pinball Heaven

"Nuff Said!"

[Alipan]

Looks like this is releasing tomorrow....

http://www.xblafans.com/the-pinball-...day-43225.html

[Dalek Nation]

wow... AND Tenorman's Revenge... gonna be hard picking just one. l

[X DrLobo]

i know what i WON'T pick ... it doesn't have bumpers in it !

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

FarSight already has at least 50 tables lined up. Between them and Zen I would eventually be spending enough to buy a real table probably,lol. But seriously Zen, do you see yourself one day having over a 100 tables to offer?

[BarbieBobomb]

I don't see why not But that would obviously take some time!

[satch]

I think i read on Facebook that FARSIGHT don't have license for any CAPCOM tables so maybe the Gotlieb Street Fighter 11 championship table is still up for grabs ?. And seeing that ZEN have already worked with CAPCOM on their own Street Fighter table...Am I just grasping at straws ? heck its worth a try because i love that table.

[Dalek Nation]

I think i read on Facebook that FARSIGHT don't have license for any CAPCOM tables so maybe the Gotlieb Street Fighter 11 championship table is still up for grabs ?. And seeing that ZEN have already worked with CAPCOM on their own Street Fighter table...Am I just grasping at straws ? heck its worth a try because i love that table.

I thought they (farsight) had everything but Stern's(?)

That is an awesome table irl, and not to clip your wings, but I'd be really surprised if Zen ever did any direct copies of actual tables. Think about it, the physics that.... almost said Zen's physics wouldn't work for a real table conversion, but I actually liked the William's compilation that farsight did and those physics were as 'meh' as they come (loved the nudges though

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

I thought they (farsight) had everything but Stern's(?)

That is an awesome table irl, and not to clip your wings, but I'd be really surprised if Zen ever did any direct copies of actual tables. Think about it, the physics that.... almost said Zen's physics wouldn't work for a real table conversion, but I actually liked the William's compilation that farsight did and those physics were as 'meh' as they come (loved the nudges though

FarSight has Stern AND Gottlieb rights. One day they want to release a new Stern table simutaneously with Stern releasing in real life. That'd be sweet!!

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

I don't see why not But that would obviously take some time!

Exactly what I wanted to hear Barb!!! Thanks.

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Hmm and apparently the 4 core Tables will cost 800 MS PTS, il believe it when I see it.

[x Zot x]

Looks like this is releasing tomorrow....

http://www.xblafans.com/the-pinball-...day-43225.html

Via The Pinball Arcade Facebook:
Microsoft has asked Crave (the XBLA publisher) to delay the release for a week to get better placement on the dashboard. We're sorry for the delay, but as of yesterday we were still hopeful to get review codes to give to the press and at least the option to release today. Even Microsoft seems to have expected the game to have been released this week. We will update again later today when the date is official.

...One day they want to release a new Stern table simutaneously with Stern releasing in real life. That'd be sweet!!

They should've started with the new AC/DC table, because that table REALLY ROCKS! http://www.sternpinball.com/Media/Vi...-gameplay.aspx

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Via The Pinball Arcade Facebook:
Microsoft has asked Crave (the XBLA publisher) to delay the release for a week to get better placement on the dashboard. We're sorry for the delay, but as of yesterday we were still hopeful to get review codes to give to the press and at least the option to release today. Even Microsoft seems to have expected the game to have been released this week. We will update again later today when the date is official.

Aww man, will hopefully they do keep their word and we get an official date later today.

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

Are you serious?? ******************************************!!!!

[Dalek Nation]

Are you serious?? ******************************************!!!!

>_<!!! LoL

... but are we surprised? Pessimists are never let down

[blue]

Shouldn't this be moved to General Discussions since it's not about Pinball FX 2?

[shogun00]

Via The Pinball Arcade Facebook:
Microsoft has asked Crave (the XBLA publisher) to delay the release for a week to get better placement on the dashboard. We're sorry for the delay, but as of yesterday we were still hopeful to get review codes to give to the press and at least the option to release today. Even Microsoft seems to have expected the game to have been released this week. We will update again later today when the date is official.

And it looks like the PS3/Vita version isn't going to make the 4/10 release date. They found a bug, that would prevent them from releasing DLC on it.

[lasvegaspinballhalloffame]

Yeah, I shouldn't be surprised dalek. I'm just really been let down. Been looking forward to this for months, waited patiently through out March counting down to today. This is just effed up. Theiur communication with their fans on Facebook and forums at pinballarcadefans.com is prettty much non existant. Thank God Zen gives a crap about their fans.

[Solitude]

Shouldn't this be moved to General Discussions since it's not about Pinball FX 2?

Feeling a little blue because your thread isn't getting enough love? I'm here to make it all better.

[BarbieBobomb]

Yeah, I shouldn't be surprised dalek. I'm just really been let down. Been looking forward to this for months, waited patiently through out March counting down to today. This is just effed up. Theiur communication with their fans on Facebook and forums at pinballarcadefans.com is prettty much non existant. Thank God Zen gives a crap about their fans.

Aww thanks, but I don't think they don't care about their fans, I just think they don't have enough people to take care of everything and keep fans in the know.

[HardcorePinballGamer4Life]

Nevermind, I found it their comment about the DLC bug for the PlayStaion 3 and Vita versions. I predict this will a small-moderate bug to fix since the team isn't really talking about it too much and remain hopeful about the release date.

[Postman]

Better dashborad placement? What BS. That dash is gargabe anyway, with the timed scrolling windows/right stick ads.

I was really looking forward to playing this today after work.

I checked the cheevos too, and it's still basic goals, wizard goals, and "get a local highscore", which I'm sure you will do trying for the goals. Just hope they fixed the TOTAN glitch for harem multiball.....

800 points is a good price though, wonder how much the DLC will cost....

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

Feeling a little blue because your thread isn't getting enough love? I'm here to make it all better.

LMAO

800 points is a good price though, wonder how much the DLC will cost....

Think I remember hearing 200MS PTS somewhere.

[Solitude]

Aww thanks, but I don't think they don't care about their fans, I just think they don't have enough people to take care of everything and keep fans in the know.

I seem to recall that we had a last-minute, two week delay with PFX2 as well. We did not find out until a day or two in advance. It's probably even tougher when you have a 3rd party publisher (Crave) in the mix as well - we had the good fortune of working directly with Microsoft.

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

I seem to recall that we had a last-minute, two week delay with PFX2 as well. We did not find out until a day or two in advance. It's probably even tougher when you have a 3rd party publisher (Crave) in the mix as well - we had the good fortune of working directly with Microsoft.

Oh yeah, I remember how annoyed I got hearing that news when I checked the site before heading out in the morning. At least it allowed you to polish up the Platform a bit more.

Doh the excuse for the delay of the pinball arcade is kinder funny since the new Dash is pretty awkward to find stuff unless you use Bing search... can't wait to see this so called Dash Advertisement.

[jeffy777]

Yeah, I shouldn't be surprised dalek. I'm just really been let down. Been looking forward to this for months, waited patiently through out March counting down to today. This is just effed up. Theiur communication with their fans on Facebook and forums at pinballarcadefans.com is prettty much non existant. Thank God Zen gives a crap about their fans.

That is so not true. They're commenting on Facebook stuff everyday, even on weekends, and one of their devs is a regular on their forum.

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

That is so not true. They're commenting on Facebook stuff everyday, even on weekends, and one of their devs is a regular on their forum.

True but they did go MIA for a bit while the whole Console release date was making certain individuals ansy. But yeh they have picked up and now they are replying to near every post.

Soon will get to see if the hype was worth the wait.

[jeffy777]

True but they did go MIA for a bit while the whole Console release date was making certain individuals ansy. But yeh they have picked up and now they are replying to near every post.

Soon will get to see if the hype was worth the wait.

They never really went MIA. They were still answering questions, and they told us several different times that the game was still under approval by MS so they couldn't confirm a date. Even when they were at the TX Pinball Festival, they were still answering questions on FB.

In any case, you gotta cut the guys some slack. They only have like 6 employees and they're working around the clock to get all these various releases out, and patch the existing ones, and bring two new tables to every platform. It's hard not to respect their hard work.

BTW, they just released the Mac version today,