Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Extraball problem on Williams Pinball

  1. #1
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default Extraball problem on Williams Pinball

    Well, I dont know if it's a bug, but something is not good with the Extraball on Williams Pinball.

    First I dont really understand how many we can earn, it's not clear and it changes on each tables. But on Medieval Madness, the number of XB is cap to 5 on the entire game (I guess it's the case on the other Williams tables ?)

    That means if you've already earned the max number of XB (5), they becomes impossible to earn again in the same way. So you have to stay with only 4 XB to gain the possibility to earn a new XB.

    For exemple on Medieval Madness : I earn 2 XB wining a Super Jackpot on Castle multiball, then 2 with 1 Royal Madnesses, then 2 crushing 2 castles. So 5. Then, the Castle Hurry-up wont give me the XB Lite after 10 turns (definititly lost possibility to earn it). And next Royal Madnesses only gives me 15m for the rest of the game, but not XB (normaly you can earn more than one XB with this mode).

    That means if you wanna keep all the XB possibilities to win an XB, you have to be carefull to win only max 4 (not 5) to can earn a new one on the next ball. That's why I think it's probably a bug.

  2. #2
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western NY (USA)
    Posts
    2,815

    Default

    Not a bug! It looks like Zen just stuck with the factory default settings in the operator's menu. Extra balls on Williams tables are capped at 5 by default.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Not a bug! It looks like Zen just stuck with the factory default settings in the operator's menu. Extra balls on Williams tables are capped at 5 by default.
    You can actually earn 5 xtra balls per ball on The Getaway.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  4. #4
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Not a bug! It looks like Zen just stuck with the factory default settings in the operator's menu. Extra balls on Williams tables are capped at 5 by default.
    I'm ok if the number of XB is capped to 5 in a game, but it's not the case on Williams Pinball, where you can earn more than 5 XB in a game. For exemple on Medieval Madness you can earn 4 XB with Royal Madness, 4 with the Castle multiball, 4 destroying Castles, 2 with Castle Hurry-up (10 then 40), and more with the video mode and Merlins Magic. So you can earn many XB.

    Same thing on Fish Tales, Junk Yard, and other Williams tables. You can earn more than 5 XB on one game.

    It's hard to explain but the problem is, if you take care to stock only 4 XB (and never get 5), then you can earn all the other XB on the next balls, one by one, ball after ball. But if you stock 5 XB in a moment of your game, you erase the possibilities to earn them all. Just because you have earned one XB. Something's wrong, it's not logical.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wims_Beta View Post

    It's hard to explain but the problem is, if you take care to stock only 4 XB (and never get 5), then you can earn all the other XB on the next balls, one by one, ball after ball. But if you stock 5 XB in a moment of your game, you erase the possibilities to earn them all. Just because you have earned one XB. Something's wrong, it's not logical.
    What you just described is called a tip. Thanks, but it's hardly a detriment to game play or changes the outcome of the game. Same guys keep winning, no matter if it be a one ball game or this one you just described with uber xtra balls.

    If you could provide a video showing precisely what you mean, that would be awesome. I doubt I have ever gotten more than 5 xtra balls on Medieval Madness. The Getaway is a different story, I think I managed 8 or 9 xtra balls once.
    Last edited by cantankerous--; 01-31-2019 at 10:16 PM.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  6. #6
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cantankerous-- View Post
    What you just described is called a tip.
    Believe it or not, what I describe is called a glitch, and knowing it is a tip.

    It will be difficult to make a video just for that, already because it would be long (~ 1 hour of game I think to manage to store 5 XB), and useless. Especially if no devs will look into the problem, or wont answer the thread.

  7. #7
    Table Designer deep's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    359

    Default

    Interesting what you wrote. There are two extra ball related setting in the operators menu of each ROM. Maximum number of extra balls per game and per ball in play. We set both settings to 5. I have no idea how can these settings could result more extra balls. Maybe the ROMs are glitched?

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wims_Beta View Post
    Believe it or not, what I describe is called a glitch, and knowing it is a tip.

    It will be difficult to make a video just for that, already because it would be long (~ 1 hour of game I think to manage to store 5 XB), and useless. Especially if no devs will look into the problem, or wont answer the thread.
    There are actually glitches that destroy the leaderboards that have not been addressed where trillions of points are awarded just by glitching the bumpers. The glitch you describe is beneficial if done correctly which to me is the shear definition of a tip or easter egg. I'm almost certain since it matters not, that only you and a handful of people will ever benefit from it that this is the glitch they will spend their time to remove.
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  9. #9
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deep View Post
    Interesting what you wrote. There are two extra ball related setting in the operators menu of each ROM. Maximum number of extra balls per game and per ball in play. We set both settings to 5. I have no idea how can these settings could result more extra balls. Maybe the ROMs are glitched?
    Ok deep, I assure you all the tables of Williams Pinball can deliver more than 5 XB on a game. Really more.

    First setting in operator, you called it "extraball per game" : that's the problem, settings are not to 5. could it be the max number of Extraball you can have in store ? I insist on this word "stocked / in store", not "win". That means you can win 4 XB, then lost ball, then win another XB, then lost the ball, then win another XB, etc. But if you store 5 XB in your game, some are impossible to win again.

    Second operator setting called "extraball per ball" : ok, 5 XB so that means you can play (5+1)x3 = 18 balls max in a game. But only if you never store 5 XB.

    I have to explain what's happened on my game on Medieval Madness, on the first ball, (I have to remember but I almost sure). I won :
    - 2 XB with Castle multiball.
    - 2 XB with Royal Madness.
    - One by destroying 2 castles.

    So only on the first ball, I won the 5 XB that are possible to store on one ball. Then :
    - Always on the first ball, I won 10 Castle Hurry-up (normaly that gives an XB) : but because I already had 5, that gives me nothing. And definitly, this oportunity to win a XB was lost for the entire game.
    - Royal Madness gives me 15m reward for the rest of my entire game (even in the future balls). I mean if I havent stocked 5 XB before on my game, Royal Madness will continure to assure another XBs on next balls.
    - Castle Multiball doesnt give me another XB on the ball in play, but I won another XB by this way on the 2nd ball.
    - Destroying the 2 first castles (after a first wizard round) wont give me another XB for the rest of my game. If I havent stored 5 XB, destroying 2 first castles certainly will give me another XBs on my next balls.

    Well, you understand it's really hard to explain, and it depends of the tables. I have to play again to know what exactly happens and this is hyper long to do. So your help is greatful.

    I think if you manage to cap the number of XB to earn in a game, that will clear the problem.

  10. #10

    Default

    At least on Steam all Williams tables stack 5 EBs per ball. Maximum balls per game 3+15 EB. The only exception is Medieval Madness with unlimited EBs per game. Yet it's only possible to stack 5 EBs during every ball in play.
    Last edited by Tarek Oberdieck; 02-01-2019 at 08:28 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Oberdieck View Post
    At least on Steam all Williams tables stack 5 EBs per ball. Maximum balls per game 3+15 EB. The only exception is Medieval Madness with unlimited EBs per game. Yet it's only possible to stack 5 EBs during every ball in play.
    Hey ! Yes thank you Tarek, I better understand now why I was surprised on Medieval Madness.

    Unlimited EBs per game but if you stock 5 XBs in a moment of your game and try to earn a 6th times by Royal Madness, you delete the possibilities to win them again by Royal Madness (that will give you 15m for the rest of the game).

    And may be it happens the same thing by destroying 2 castles. And the 2 XBs with 10 & 40 Castle Hurry-up are killed too, if you earn them when you already got 5 XBs in stock.

    To conclude, what I understand : unlimited XBs only if you simply take care to avoid stocking 5 XBs. So... this is a pure glitch.

    Do you know if it's the same case on TPA or in the real pinball machine ?
    Last edited by wims_Beta; 02-01-2019 at 10:02 PM.

  12. #12

    Default

    TPA use the standard ROM settings (at least for all real pinballs I've played in europe) with unlimited EBs and the possibility to stack four per ball in play. Royal Madness always award 15M after a few rounds on every real machine I've played, that should be by game design. EBs for the second castle and multiball are always repeatable.
    Go for multiball until you reach the maximum stackable EBs and the game will never end...

  13. #13
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Oberdieck View Post
    TPA use the standard ROM settings (at least for all real pinballs I've played in europe) with unlimited EBs and the possibility to stack four per ball in play. Royal Madness always award 15M after a few rounds on every real machine I've played, that should be by game design. EBs for the second castle and multiball are always repeatable.
    Go for multiball until you reach the maximum stackable EBs and the game will never end...
    Thanks Tarek ! That's exactly what I just saw in my current game, till I found a new bug that killed my game (I have to report it later).

    Royal Madness XBs are caped to 4 XBs, then gives 15m.
    Hurry-up Castle give 2 XBs (for 10 & 40 castles).
    Maximum XBs in stock : 5.
    So if you've already stocked 5 XB :
    - Royal Madness doesnt give anymore XB but 15m for the rest of the game (even if you've only won 1, 2 ou 3 XBs by this way).
    - Hurry-up Castle XBs (10 & 40) can be killed.

    Indeed, Super Jackpot on Multiball Castle gives endless XBs. And destroy the 2 first castles (wizard by wizard) too.

    Maximum number of extra balls per game and per ball in play. We set both settings to 5. I have no idea how can these settings could result more extra balls. Maybe the ROMs are glitched?
    I'm surprised but if these settings are both to 5, the ROMs are glitched on Medieval Madness, and Williams has sell machines with an endless game possibility.

  14. #14
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wims_Beta View Post
    So if you've already stocked 5 XB :
    - Royal Madness doesnt give anymore XB but 15m for the rest of the game (even if you've only won 1, 2 ou 3 XBs by this way).
    My mistake it's not the case. I think it was but I had 5 XBs stacked. Royal Madness continues to give XB when you go down to 4 XBs.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    156

    Default

    okay here's how extra ball settings work. there are three possible limits, depending on game.

    1) max extra balls. this is the most you can have stacked.

    2) max extra balls per ball in play. that's the highes tnumber you can earn until the ball i play counter goes up. say if its' 5, you can get 5, but no more until you get to ball two. even if you lose some you still can't get more.

    3) max extra balls per game. this is a hard limit on the total number you may earn. Many games do NOT have this setting, but for an example, whirlwind DOES.

    the medieval madness handbook describes the first two types of settings.

    A.1 3 is maximum stacked extra balls. it defaults to 4.
    A.1 4 is maximum extra balls per ball in play. it defaults to unlimited. it must be set to something to stop people playing forever.

    setting the second setting to 5 makes the first setting redundant if it's also set to 5.

    this gives a hard limit of 15 extra balls. 5 for ball 1, five for ball 2, and 5 for ball 3.

    If you set both one and two, you should set 1 to LOWER than 2. if 1 is equal or higher than 2, it does nothing.


    Different games work differently. max extra balls per game is a very rare setting, and few games actually have it. some games only have setting 1, but most williams games that are new enough have both 1 (which all games have in some fashion) and 2.

  16. #16

    Default

    So, not a glitch seeing how the rom is acting according to the desired settings. I really dont see the issue anyway. Are there a select few exploiting the endless balls to amass unreal scores, and if so, arent they the same exact people who would be at the top of the leaderboards even if Zen limits the balls to a max of 5?
    Accomplishments in real life

    1. Rolled a star wars machine................ie played over 99 levels and rolled it back to level 1.
    2. Rolled Nintendo punch out, several times, same quarter.
    3. Played an entire game of dragons lair and completed it and won while blindfolded.

  17. #17
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western NY (USA)
    Posts
    2,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphod77 View Post
    3) max extra balls per game. this is a hard limit on the total number you may earn. Many games do NOT have this setting, but for an example, whirlwind DOES.
    Actually, most of the alpha-numaric (especially the System 11) tables have this option.

  18. #18
    Senior Member wims_Beta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    184

    Default

    As deep has written, in reality Zen has defined both settings (max xb per ball AND max xb stacked) to 5.

    It's not the Williams pinball machines setting, where max XB stacked is apparently defined to 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphod77 View Post
    If you set both one and two, you should set 1 to LOWER than 2. if 1 is equal or higher than 2, it does nothing.
    By "It does nothing" you mean it doesnt matter or settings will not work ?

    Well, let's see what Zen will gonna do.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    156

    Default

    i mean there is no difference between setting 1 at 5 and 2 at 5 from 1 at unlimited and 2 at 5.

    setting 2 will clamp the extra balls before setting 1 will, unless 1 is lower than two.

    if setting 2 was say 10, and setting 1 i 5

    you can get 5 extra balls. once you lose one you can then earn one more, up until the 10th extra ball, then you have to lose them all to get to ball 2 before you can start going back up to 5.

    now say setting 1 is 5, adn 2 is 5. you can collect the five either all at once, or with balls lost between then, but unless you go to ball two, you cannot ever collect more than 5. if you collect them all at once, setting 2 stops you before settign 1 does. if you colelct them sseparately, setting 2 still stops you first.

    now say setting 1 was 4 and 2 was 5. then setting 1 will stop you if you try to get 5 on your very first ball, but if you lose one you can then cllect the 5th.

    yes, the older williams games, like whirlwind were the ones that had the hard per game limit. but funhouse, for example, does not. it has the same a13 and a14 adjustments that all the dmd games have.

  20. #20
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Western NY (USA)
    Posts
    2,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphod77 View Post
    yes, the older williams games, like whirlwind were the ones that had the hard per game limit. but funhouse, for example, does not. it has the same a13 and a14 adjustments that all the dmd games have.
    No surprise there, since Funhouse was the first table to use the WPC board.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •