Who would like game difficulty presets having their own leaderboards ?

[Vincent]

In previous threads like this one https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthr...-much-too-easy some people complained about tables being either too hard or too easy.

Why not allow every kind of player to enjoy any table at their favourite difficulty level, with individual leaderboards ?

Those levels would actually be presets for operator's menu settings. The easy level would give a lot of ball savers and extra balls. The hard level would limit such things. The scoring system of a table wouldn't be changed.

Do you think this is a good idea ? If yes, would you like 3 or 5 possible settings ?

3 settings could be : easy, average, hard
5 settings could be : very easy, easy, average, hard, very hard

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

[BarbieBobomb]

Very cool! Thanks for setting this up, I'm curious to see what you all think I feel like split leaderboards could be totally crazy, but kind of awesome!

[Vincent]

Very cool! Thanks for setting this up, I'm curious to see what you all think I feel like split leaderboards could be totally crazy, but kind of awesome!

Cool ! Thank you very much !

[snakeman07]

I'm not sure what my views are on all of this craziness with "easy" and "hard" tables. We have a great combination of both in the current library, and I think there's an overall good balance. People saying that all the individual releases are easy is just not right, because it's just the luck of the draw, really...I mean, if Civil War turns out to be one of the harder tables, what will they say then? Even if it turns out to be an easier table, there's nothing that should be said about it, in my opinion, it's just that. Zen has many more tables to come, I'm sure there will be a few hard ones in the mix.

[shogun00]

I personally can't vote on this, because I've seen both the pluses and minuses between the two options. We know what it's like to have one set of settings for the leaderboards. On the PS3, besides ZP2 and TPA we also a have game called Pinballistik (from Creat Studios), which has multiple difficulty settings and separate leaderboards for each choice.

The difficulty settings are a little unique for Pinballistik though. You can either play on a timer (1 min, 3 mins, 5 mins and 10 mins) and get infinite balls or have infinite play time with a set number of balls (1 ball, 3 balls, 5 balls or 10 balls).

The problem is that most of the players are casual and stick with the simpler settings (10 minute game or 10 balls), while the more difficult settings have very few scores to beat. In fact, I can instantly get into the top 20 just because there are only about 30 or so scores posted on those difficulties. There's not much of a challenge there for me.

[Vincent]

I'm not sure what my views are on all of this craziness with "easy" and "hard" tables. We have a great combination of both in the current library, and I think there's an overall good balance. People saying that all the individual releases are easy is just not right, because it's just the luck of the draw, really...I mean, if Civil War turns out to be one of the harder tables, what will they say then? Even if it turns out to be an easier table, there's nothing that should be said about it, in my opinion, it's just that. Zen has many more tables to come, I'm sure there will be a few hard ones in the mix.

It is hard to deny that there has been for one year or so a "tendency" pointing towards easier tables. Even Vengeance and Virtue suffered from it.

[Vincent]

The problem is that most of the players are casual and stick with the simpler settings (10 minute game or 10 balls), while the more difficult settings have very few scores to beat. In fact, I can instantly get into the top 20 just because there are only about 30 or so scores posted on those difficulties. There's not much of a challenge there for me.

This is a very interesting argument. Maybe in Pinball FX the problem would be limited, since many players would like to try the hard settings.

[surf1der]

I'm not going to vote because the question is a bit vague but it is an interesting question. How would the different difficulty settings translate into differing gameplay? Are they simple things like operator menu adjustments (e.g. number of extra balls, no nudging) or actual rule set changes (e.g. number of hits to activate a certain mode) or physical table adjustments (e.g. flipper length, slingshot strength). It seems the latter adjustments would be very difficult or impossible to change as I am sure geometry of certain ramps/targets/orbits are optimized with certain flipper lengths. If you shorten the flippers some shots may now become impossible to make. So then do you optimize each table for each flipper length. That seems like it would take a lot of work and a lot of extra time.

Also, how do manage leaderboards and pro/super scores. I get the impression that setting up and managing leaderboards is more difficult than it seems. What do you do for tournaments?

Personally, I would like to see a tournament setting like some real pins have that takes out a lot of the randomness or no extra balls, etc.

[Vincent]

No one wants to vote

Yes I am talking about operator's menu ajustments, nothing else.

I edited my first post so as to clarify this.

[surf1der]

Well I decided to vote. I think a tournament option in the operator menu would be cool.

[Rafie]

Ehhh...it doesn't matter to me. I don't care either way. For those who are saying that Zen's tables are easy as of late...well that's false. Yes PvZ was definitely easy, however, have most of you mastered all the trophies for Infinity Gauntlet and Fear Itself?! Those tables are in no way easy. I can understand of some people want more of a challenge in their playthroughs. At the same time, not everybody are pin wizards. If Zen started making their tables too hard, then it will drive a lot of people away. Some of the pinball pros actually started out as casual players. That's what Zen does. They cater to the casual crowd with some difficult tables and some easy and in-between. That's how it should be, in my opinion. Nobody likes too easy or too hard games.

[snakeman07]

It is hard to deny that there has been for one year or so a "tendency" pointing towards easier tables. Even Vengeance and Virtue suffered from it.

Yeah, one table out of 4, Ghost Rider. The others in the pack hold their own in terms of difficulty. X-Men and Thor are not that easy, especially if you ask casual players.

I mean, maybe we should rag more on the fact that ZP2 has made every table easier to play, with more fluid ramp shots on certain tables, such as the citadel ramp on Blade, or the sign ramp on F4 (yes, I just played the demo, and it's waaay easier now). I don't care.

[Alipan]

Yeah, one table out of 4, Ghost Rider. The others in the pack hold their own in terms of difficulty. X-Men and Thor are not that easy, especially if you ask casual players.

I mean, maybe we should rag more on the fact that ZP2 has made every table easier to play, with more fluid ramp shots on certain tables, such as the citadel ramp on Blade, or the sign ramp on F4 (yes, I just played the demo, and it's waaay easier now). I don't care.

I agree with you that there were some harder tables in V&V (although not as hard as Iron Man / Blade / Rome) – no complaints there.

My personal disappointment is with the single table releases. I don’t agree with your earlier statement that the difficulty on these is somehow ‘luck of the draw’. You can trace the trend from Captain America onwards of the single tables getting easier and easier – it can only be a deliberate strategy from Zen.

ZP2 made it easier? Dunno – this is the FX2 forum, I’m an X-bot.

[LK9T9]

Why not allow every kind of player to enjoy any table at their favourite difficulty level, with individual leaderboards ?

I'm afraid this would tear the whole PBFX2 online community to shreds. I don't know, I have a bad feeling, while thinking about your idea.

[Nekro Neko]

First off, I think that there should be 3 difficulty settings, Normal, Hard and Expert. Why have seperate charts? They can even be on the same chart, but listed in the order of Expert first, then Hard then finally those who played on Normal. Either way is fine by me though.

[snakeman07]

For V & V is was refering to Ghost Rider and Avengers.

Avengers isn't in the V&V pack

[LK9T9]

Can't this all be solved by tweaking or changing the superscore system?

[Vincent]

Avengers isn't in the V&V pack

Yes, sorry

[Nekro Neko]

Can't this all be solved by tweaking or changing the superscore system?

No, that wouldn't change the level of challenge each table gives.

[Rudiger]

I answered three modes because it's closest, but I think only two are needed for leaderboards. There could still be additional tweaks in the operator menu, but it wouldn't be necessary and probably not feasible to have leaderboards track all permutations. The idea would be to select play in normal or tourney mode before each game and require tourney mode for all tournaments.

"Normal" mode would be the table as designed with the original defaults. "Tournament" (or expert, pro, etc.) mode would enable these types of settings:

• One extra ball per ball
• Time limit
• Limited nudges per ball before tilt
• Hard setting for posts and playfield angle

[Vincent]

Come on, come on people ! Let's vote on my poll ! Who wants a fresh nice poll ! Special offer ! It's free !

[MarkItZeroSmoky]

Zen is also going to have to take into account the trophies/achievements. Would it be like changing the operators menu, thus disallowing trophy/achievements and high scores on the leaderboards? Both of those factors should remain under one/same difficulty for everyone. Kinda wouldnt be fair if you could pop say, the beating wizard mode trophy/achievements on easy as compared to say normal, or hard difficulty. Which leads to the question on the civil war trophy descrip for zp2's civil war, about beating your opponent on "very hard level" (idk if you guys got same achievement on xbox) but as to the leaderboards, if zen could implement the diff boards according to difficulty, then yeah, they might attract more casual players. But personaly, i say nay.

[Vincent]

May I ask who is the person who voted for 5 levels ? (other than me )

[ShoryukenToTheChin]

May I ask who is the person who voted for 5 levels ? (other than me )

*Waves Hand*

Mostly because those would offer any Pinball player the challenge he/she desires, as well as stop the whole "Oh Zen make Easy Tables" discussions

[Vincent]

Well Barbie, for now it seems that there's little success with this thread...

What do you people think about including difficulty levels ?

[Lepruk86]

I voted for 3 but I have wanted two modes since... well forever?

I did a thread ages ago asking about a tournament-style game-mode.

I.E No extra balls / springier slingshots etc.

I feel like having 2 styles of play wouldn't be splitting the community overly so.

I just don't want hour+ long games at the moment I guess?

[LK9T9]

I voted for 3 but I have wanted two modes since... well forever?

I did a thread ages ago asking about a tournament-style game-mode.

I.E No extra balls / springier slingshots etc.

I feel like having 2 styles of play wouldn't be splitting the community overly so.

I just don't want hour+ long games at the moment I guess?

That's what I had in mind for weeks now. 2 modes. Not sure about the "springier slingshots", but no extra balls, harder to earn kickbacks and ballsaves and so on. Nice idea.

[X DrLobo]

3 levels for me , the hard one, being the one used for tournaments

Oh and while you're at it, change the UI to make it like game room but with pinball tables instead of arcade cabinets !!!

[Nekro Neko]

Wrong thread :P