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Thread: A message to Zen

  1. #1
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    Default A message to Zen

    This is more of a plea to please stop changing the way the tables play after you release them, this is in terms of increasing the number of shots for kickbacks or multiball ect ect.

    Ok so i played some more of all zen2 tables after some time and not sure what has changed on all the table rules but i was playing PvZ and i noticed that both the mail box multiball and kickback was changed (4 balls per mail box ramp shot instead of 1 and kickback orbits shots increased ) WITHOUT SCOREBOARD RESET!? on top of that you guys nerfed the nudges from 3 to 2 on all tables all of these things change scores and how we attain them dramatically, PvZ is now one of the more unpleasant tables it used to be one of my faves yes mail box multiball was too easy but i would have chosen 2 per letter not 4 to see how everyone plays before increasing it further. it really throws us or "Me" anyway WAY OFF, i cant get as close to the score i have anymore on PvZ and to me my high score is invalid.

    i have not played extensively all tables to see what else has been made more difficult without scoreboard resets but i don't want to see this happen to the Star Wars tables too i am more then happy to be buying these awesome looking new Star Wars tables but if these changes happen again i will be vary sad and unhappy and more then likely ill just play without trying to get trophies or go for anyone's scores at all and that's no fun at all. i am not trying to belittle zen in any way i really love the style and gameplay and will get more as they come out but this does frustrate me. i maybe wasting my breath but i have to try.


    what about everyone else? do you really think the approach to the changes that have been made (example PvZ) are even close to logical?.

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Plants vs Zombies is the only one that they tweaked because of fan outcry. There were quite a few complaints that it was too easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Plants vs Zombies is the only one that they tweaked because of fan outcry. There were quite a few complaints that it was too easy.
    so the answer is make it worse and not reset the scoreboard that's 17 ramp shots instead of 5 that's overdoing it and i cant remember how many orbit shots for kickbacks i just don't want to know Now , this table is gonna be lonely


    apologies if i put this Thread in the wrong place i see it was moved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post
    so the answer is make it worse and not reset the scoreboard that's 17 ramp shots instead of 5 that's overdoing it and i cant remember how many orbit shots for kickbacks i just don't want to know Now , this table is gonna be lonely
    You'll probably never see us reset a leaderboard again. The last time we did it, apparently it upset many more people than if we hadn't. I wasn't working here at the time though so I don't know exactly how bad it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    You'll probably never see us reset a leaderboard again. The last time we did it, apparently it upset many more people than if we hadn't. I wasn't working here at the time though so I don't know exactly how bad it was.
    ya i heard there was threats that's no cool of them, me personally i would just leave the rules as is because anything other then that creates problems, just because people say its easier does not mean its bad and needs to be changed.

    if it's not broken don't fix it

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    Senior Member ER777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    You'll probably never see us reset a leaderboard again. The last time we did it, apparently it upset many more people than if we hadn't. I wasn't working here at the time though so I don't know exactly how bad it was.
    Not resetting the leaderboard was probably a good idea but the changes that were done after release were a bit drastic. More subtle tweaks would have probably made a lot more people happy.

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    Senior Member Cloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    You'll probably never see us reset a leaderboard again. The last time we did it, apparently it upset many more people than if we hadn't. I wasn't working here at the time though so I don't know exactly how bad it was.
    Same opinion as always... get some of the top players on the systems where is practical to implement e.g. NOT Xbox360, to Beta test the tables so that you can get opinions on scoring imbalances, modes that are too easy/hard and glitches so that no after release tweaking and leaderboard resets will be required. This has been my single biggest gripe (with associated suggestion) since the release of Pinball FX 2 and more specifically since Fantastic 4. A bunch of tables are ruined from a fun and or/challenge point of view because of this e.g. - Civil War, Spider Man and Paranormal for scoring imbalances and Fantastic 4 and PvZ for useless leader boards.
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    i don't think barbiebobomb is at fault and i think shes great as a Community Manager lets give her some slack the problem is what Zen Studios is not seeing and that is the majority of the people that they seem to listen to are a 1% or Pro players and are not listing to the 99% percent which is the larger bulk of the customers out there and they need more happy customers, now i see the pro players post and read on here more then the 99% . i respect the high scores the pro players have like shogun00, Kefran and Bearded_Warrior ect ect, but this game is supposed to be for everyone and fun for everyone, its not that they wont make it easier its that they made it harder.

    now i did agree that mail box multiball was easy and the rest thought so too but they over shot it why not make a thread and ask everyone what they think would be fare seeing as scoreboards cant be reset it should have been approached more carefully.

    PvZ
    2 shots per letter instead of 4 would be a good start.
    and orbit kickback shots are 8 i think , 4 was good enough i think or maybe 6.

    Nudges
    Zen 2 started with 3 for some time and no one was complaining at all about it and all the sudden it went down to 2 and left a hole in the fun ever since with no explanation.

    Scoreboard idea
    to make everyone happy too why not have Normal/default Scoreboard and a hard Scoreboard using operator default settings.


    i want zen Studios to be more successful and to gain more customers its not just what i would like.
    Last edited by RabidShark; 02-16-2013 at 01:01 PM.

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    Angry

    190 views i guess nobody cares about the unethical Nerfing going on Vary Disappointing they will end up Nerfing more i am sure.

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    Senior Member snakeman07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post
    190 views i guess nobody cares about the unethical Nerfing going on Vary Disappointing they will end up Nerfing more i am sure.
    Well, to be honest, this was already discussed lightyears ago, everyone is over it now, especially since they just tweaked the PvZ table, which isn't the most popular table among us at the forums from what I can tell.

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakeman07 View Post
    Well, to be honest, this was already discussed lightyears ago, everyone is over it now, especially since they just tweaked the PvZ table, which isn't the most popular table among us at the forums from what I can tell.
    Indeed! Plants vs Zombies is my least favorite table out of all of the tables in ZP2.

    Also, I have beaten my old score with the new changes. It's still doable, so I don't see the point in demanding a leader board reset.
    Last edited by shogun00; 02-17-2013 at 04:27 AM.

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    @shogun00

    DOABLE FOR FOR YOU!!!! AND OTHER TOP PLAYERS!!!! THAT SCORE OF YOURS WOULD BE HIGHER IF IT WAS VANILLA + the fix for game ending glitch provided, and why complaining about how easy it is when you DON'T LIKE THE TABLE!!!!! .

    its always you shogun00 saying how nothing is wrong nothing wrong at all and not an ounce of understanding . i don't necessarily want a leader board reset i can understand why they cant it really comes down to don't change what's not broken (nudges/rules change) .


    @snakeman07
    it was only about a month or two ago and i really liked that table i can understand that folks that did not like it are over it but sigh i liked it and the three nudges ,would your earth defence score be as high and lucky without them?


    getting .... angry... must not..... join.... the ... Dark Side ... errr....
    Last edited by RabidShark; 02-17-2013 at 12:39 PM.

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    Senior Member Rafie's Avatar
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    Whoa, whoa, whoa! Chill Rabid. Don't let the Sith take over just yet! Shogun didn't say nothing was wrong. He said he doesn't see the need for it. I see you're in a challenging mood. Both Snake and Shogun has the top scores in every single table on the PS3. Even without the added nudge, the results would be the same. I certainly wouldn't call it luck. Can't be lucky in every single table now can you?! It's all good man, save that rage for the war. You'll need it, Sith!!
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  14. #14
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post
    DOABLE FOR FOR YOU!!!! AND OTHER TOP PLAYERS!!!! THAT SCORE OF YOURS WOULD BE HIGHER IF IT WAS VANILLA
    I'm not a top player by any stretch. I know a lot of people think I am, but I'm not. There's always room for improvement in my games. Heck my top score on the PvZ table was a little over 300 million (I really suck at grinding).

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post
    + the fix for game ending glitch provided, and why complaining about how easy it is when you DON'T LIKE THE TABLE!!!!! .
    Who said that I was one of the people that complained that the table was too easy? The only thing easy on the table for me was getting the extra balls and starting up the Mailbox Multiball. Grinding certain missions or multiball modes was never my strong point and I've never complained once on these forums that the table itself was easy. Mundane? Yes! Easy? No!

    Yes! It's my least favorite table, but I didn't say I didn't like the table. I actually like all of the Zen's tables, since they stay consistent in design concept. I can't say the same thing for real pinball machines, where the table theme can really make or break the table for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post
    its always you shogun00 saying how nothing is wrong nothing wrong at all and not an ounce of understanding . i don't necessarily want a leader board reset i can understand why they cant it really comes down to don't change what's not broken (nudges/rules change) .
    I've never said that there is "nothing wrong" with the game. There are plenty of problems with the game, that I can probably write a 20 page report on. However, many of them are pretty small and minor that I just don't bother. There are other issues that the game has (such as the game breaking ones), that need much more attention at the moment.

    Why don't you complain about the split screen multiplayer mode that doesn't work after the latest update? Oh, that's right! You don't play that mode and don't care about it. Yet, there are a quite a few complaints on it, but they all came from newbies and it was pretty much ignored. I decided to check it out myself and sure enough it was broken. I sent a complete report about it and Zen finally acknowledged it.

    I will go out of my way to express my dissatisfaction on an issue with a game/table and I will also go out of my way to defend a member that is experiencing the same problem. However, I don't go out of my way for minor issues like this one.
    Last edited by shogun00; 02-17-2013 at 07:36 PM.

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    Senior Member MarkItZeroSmoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post

    getting .... angry... must not..... join.... the ... Dark Side ... errr....
    Last edited by MarkItZeroSmoky; 02-17-2013 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafie View Post
    Whoa, whoa, whoa! Chill Rabid. Don't let the Sith take over just yet! Shogun didn't say nothing was wrong. He said he doesn't see the need for it. I see you're in a challenging mood. Both Snake and Shogun has the top scores in every single table on the PS3. Even without the added nudge, the results would be the same. I certainly wouldn't call it luck. Can't be lucky in every single table now can you?! It's all good man, save that rage for the war. You'll need it, Sith!!

    i am ok sometimes i show my teeth , that third nudge meant something to me it's like someone shortened my light saber and every now and then i swing and miss and i think damn it was longer last time, there was no need for it ..i like playing TPA with that even with that large gap in the flippers and unforgivable drains

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    I'm not a top player by any stretch. I know a lot of people think I am, but I'm not. There's always room for improvement in my games. Heck my top score on the PvZ table was a little over 300 million (I really suck at grinding).

    you don't give your self much credit but you do damn good out there you would make a great jedi.

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post
    Why don't you complain about the split screen multiplayer mode that doesn't work after the latest update? Oh, that's right! You don't play that mode and don't care about it. Yet, there are a quite a few complaints on it, but they all came from newbies and it was pretty much ignored. I decided to check it out myself and sure enough it was broken. I sent a complete report about it and Zen finally acknowledged it.
    you are right i did not play split screen multiplayer i don't really have anyone that would play me so have they fixed it? i could always try it with someone i think and join in acknowledging the problem as another player ... if it's not a miner issue to you for this and others thinking that it is a minor issue and not saying anything then it's just one vicious circle same as my issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkItZeroSmoky View Post
    Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.

    but i could still turn later
    Last edited by RabidShark; 02-18-2013 at 07:16 AM.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun00 View Post

    Why don't you complain about the split screen multiplayer mode that doesn't work after the latest update? Oh, that's right! You don't play that mode and don't care about it. Yet, there are a quite a few complaints on it, but they all came from newbies and it was pretty much ignored. I decided to check it out myself and sure enough it was broken. I sent a complete report about it and Zen finally acknowledged it.
    .
    Oh come on - even complaints from "newbies" get reported to the team. Honestly, to say that I ignore reports from non-senior members is pretty insulting. As soon as I heard about it, I made sure to tell the team about it, just like every other bug.

  18. #18
    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Oh come on - even complaints from "newbies" get reported to the team. Honestly, to say that I ignore reports from non-senior members is pretty insulting. As soon as I heard about it, I made sure to tell the team about it, just like every other bug.
    Oh Barbie! You know I'm just giving you are hard time.

    I'm well aware of your dedication of reporting the bugs to the team and I really appreciate it.

    I just love ribbing you for some reason.
    Last edited by shogun00; 02-18-2013 at 06:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    Oh come on - even complaints from "newbies" get reported to the team. Honestly, to say that I ignore reports from non-senior members is pretty insulting. As soon as I heard about it, I made sure to tell the team about it, just like every other bug.
    oh boy this is not my intention ... i would admit that its hard to get a read on all the fans as a whole as to what to do and there don't seem to be enough people on the forums for it, clearly not enough of us try to speak our mind in a civilised err way and not enough of us speak about the things that we may not think is important to us like split screen multiplayer.

    @shogun00
    i though you were ribbing and giving me a hard time what happened

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    Senior Member shogun00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidShark View Post
    @shogun00
    i though you were ribbing and giving me a hard time what happened
    I wasn't giving you a hard time. I was giving my own opinion on the matter and later I was defending it.

    I only rib the reps and STTC, since they know me pretty well.

  21. #21
    Senior Member caper_26's Avatar
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    I already said this in the other thread. There was no reason to change the table, period. Compare the scores of top 10 to other tables top 10. I just don't get it. I say change it back so at least someone has a more fair shot at my title, if I still have it...
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