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Thread: Pinball FX2 PC / input lag (flipper delay)

  1. #1
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    Default Pinball FX2 PC / input lag (flipper delay)

    I measured the input lag on the flippers by recording audio: first sound is made by the key, second sound is from the speaker (flipper effect sound). This testing method eliminates the monitor input lag from the equation. Very simple to measure the delay between the sounds on an audio editor. My monitor is Dell U2713HM with about 30 ms latency. Running Windows 7 and NVIDIA GTX 970.

    I have:

    180 ms latency when played on a PS3 controller* (USB)
    220 ms latency when played on a keyboard

    * = Through XInput or MotionJoy, no difference. I think the joy.cpl Game Controllers / Properties light toggling does not have any lag except for the small monitor lag.

    So it seems there is a slightly better response on the USB controller, but the lag is still horrible. I expect to play this type of game with basically 0 lag as it's all about timing. I have already tried the NVIDIA Control Panel / Manage 3D Settings / Maximum pre-rendered frames = 1 trick. That does not have ANY effect. Also I tried the D3D antilag hack ( http://www.kegetys.fi/d3d-antilag-v1-01/ ), definitely no effect whatsoever (even with the FPSlimiting functionality).

    What else can I try? Can someone confirm lower latencies than 180 ms (which is huge) on their system? I prefer under 10 ms latency.

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    This is not a good measurement because the sound the flipper makes is delayed until after the flipper rises. If you pay close attention you can notice it even without measuring anything, just watch the flipper graphic while listening closely.

    Just to be sure, I filmed a clip with my phone and played it back at 1/8th speed. On my setup, as soon as the sound from me hitting the keyboard begins, the screen starts drawing the raised flipper. The flipper sound that the game makes then follows on a second or so after the flipper has been raised (so somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-200ms later at normal speed). Obviously not a precise latency test. But the point is just that since the flipper motion and sound in the game aren't in sync, measuring the difference between the keyboard or gamepad sound and the flipper sound won't work.

    (This may be the nerdiest thing I've done this year, and I do a lot of nerdy stuff.)

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    That was a cool reply. However, I don't yet trust your test completely. Did you film your finger too (flipper and finger in the same frame)? This is a fun subject.

    I now made another test, this time iPhone 5s slow motion video, which is theoretically 120 fps. I then put that video on Adobe Premiere. One thing to notice was that audio and video were not in sync in the original file. So that had to be manually synced first.

    This time the result was 70 ms delay between finger down and flipper up on screen with theoretical 0 monitor input lag (100 ms with my monitor's input lag). The flipper jumps up with "infinite speed". So according to that, the sound should also start without a delay, if it starts when the flipper hits the limit (= goes up).

    For the latency for the sound, I got again the same 180 ms (well, 170 ms this time, but almost the same). So the sound starts after the flipper has already been up for a while.

    It is annoying as the flipper goes up so late and frustrating as the flipper sound is so much late from the physical key click sound. I wonder if a real pinball machine has close to 0 ms latency on the flippers?

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    It seems that I can't get considerably shorter latencies in any other flipper games either (Future Pinball, Pinball Arcade). What are the lowest latencies you can get and on what kind of setup?
    Last edited by distriller; 01-07-2015 at 12:33 PM.

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    This is a latency test result based on one random video found on YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrffIXbeqxc ).

    In that case the video is 30 fps and this is the result:

    frame 0: finger hits the button (aggressive, fast movement) = 0(-33)ms
    frame 1: flipper gets blurred but only starting to move = 33(-66)ms
    frame 2: flipper is very slightly blurry but basically at up position = 66(-99)ms

    and since the YouTube video was actually slowed down, possibly 50%, we can get 50% off (very unscientific, but should be close to truth on that particular table at least). So, a real pinball might have a latency of:

    - 16ms for the flipper to start moving up
    - 33ms for the flipper to achieve up position after finger pressed the button

    Is this possible on a computer (0 to 16 ms latency)?

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    Default Same lag on flippers

    Hi there,

    I experienced the same anoying flipper lags. I did not measure the delay, but it feels very sluggish.

    Also others complained about the delay:

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/226980...7252/?l=german
    http://forum.zenstudios.com/showthre...us-flipper-lag

    Is there a fix?

    Best regards
    Stomper

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stomper85 View Post
    Hi there,

    I experienced the same anoying flipper lags. I did not measure the delay, but it feels very sluggish.

    Also others complained about the delay:

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/226980...7252/?l=german
    http://forum.zenstudios.com/showthre...us-flipper-lag

    Is there a fix?

    Best regards
    Stomper
    Glad I stumbled on this. I bought a bunch on Steam myself in the last 30 days or so, for the first time. It is really difficult to time shots on Zen's FX2 due to this issue. In addition, like someone else said, Pinball arcade seems better, but not quite perfect like the consoles. I use keyboard or 360 controller, same feel. I love the flexibilty of the steam but gameplay seems to suffer, for whatever reason because of flipper discrepencies. Maybe others get this but have adjusted to it.. but to me it always seems a little off.

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    Default Easy Peasy

    Quote Originally Posted by BarbieBobomb View Post
    BarbieBoBomb and others,

    I am soooo happy to report that in my case, with my windows 10 laptop, plugging in an old (wired) xbox 360 controller solved this issue entirely. Now my notebook PC plays almost as good as the 360 (55" screen is the reason I still like the consoles best!)

    I hope that the solution is as simple for those of you who have this problem. I would to thank pinball guru dave950Iam for the suggestion, and all whom offered suggestions! Back to Secrets of the Deep.......

  10. #10

    Lightbulb ATI was the problem...

    I finally solved Input Lag on my Arcade Cabinet!

    ATI installs (with newer drivers) two services like described here: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...5365-RXBN-5508 under "ATI Users". They are now named differently, but once I set them on disabled, keyboard lag was gone and Pinball FX 2 was VERY playable!!!

    As other programs on this machine worked without these delays, I want to kindly suggest that the development team takes a look on how they poll the keyboard and why ATI services can introduce such a severe lag in the game.

    I do not need the functionality those services provide, so I am settled now, but it might help other gamers with ATI machines in the future.

    Grüße aus Deutschland, Boris

  11. #11
    Junior Member Nostromov's Avatar
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    I don't know if some people are experiencing real issues (with the lag), but for me it's near perfect. The way that the "lag" is manifested is as if we're playing on a real (physical) table... It adds to the game. IDK., I love it!
    Z68A-G43 (G3) - i7-3770 - Vengeance 2x4GB 2133MHz - GTX 650 Gainward

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